Jesus Is God: Part 1

[for_his_glory]

Hopeful Randy for_his_glory jaybo

If we were to take Jesus at His words; He had a celestial form before His incarnation that was seen by men in the Old Testament.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

I would imagine it was that day in Genesis 18 chapter when He came and sat and drank with 2 other angels along with Abraham & Sarah when He announced Sara would have a son. I would think that would be cause for his rejoicing in Him in that day.

There were other days when it was written that the Lord had appeared unto Abraham like in Genesis 12:7 & Genesis 17:1 and then unto Isaac in Genesis 26:1-2 and again that night in Genesi 26:24 & then unto Jacob in his wrestling with Him in Genesis 32:24-30, but I think that day in Genesis 18:1 was when Abraham had rejoiced to see Him.

If we consider that everything was made by Jesus Christ and that there was nothing made without Him, per John 10:1-14, then when the request to make man in "our image" and "after our likeness" in Genesis 1:26 was the Word of God asking the Father for permission to do that which is indicative that the Father has a celestial body too, and so when as the One God, in creating man, it was done in His image and after His likeness in that regards.

The same in how Jesus serves as our only Mediator between God & men where all intercessions goes through the Son, including the Spirit's unuttered intercessions after knowing the Spirit's mind to give His intercessions to the Father ( Romans 8:26-27 KJV ) and in searching our hearts ( Hebrews 4:12-16 ) in giving our intercessions before we even ask, is so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for the Son answering the prayers per John 14:13-14.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

It may very well be helpful to understand how the current prayer system has been set up to understand how the Word of God established any word in creation, let alone judge anyone like He did to the people at the Babylon tower in Genesis 11:5-9 The request was made in the plural sense , and the Father agrees & the Word of God did it as the Triune God in creating man in His image.

Deuteronomy 17:6 & Deuteronomy 19:15 on His law on how men were to establish a testimony or even to judge someone, by having 2 or 3 witnesses is how God witnesses and judges also. Still in effect for N.T. Matthew 18:16 & 2 Corinthians 13:1

So Philippians 2:5-13 of Jesus giving up His celestial body in being incarnated as the prophesied Son of Man to give His life as a ransom for many should coincide with His words about Abraham having seen Him before His incarnation because He said so.

How else could we have been made after His image and after His likeness unless the Word of God had an image even before His incarnation?

When God said to Jesus before He created man, let's make man after our image, IMO I believe this means we were created after their attributes in what God intended us to be like, not a physical image as Spirit has no earthly form unless God gives it one and we know flesh and blood can not inherited the Kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 15:50.

We were each created with a physical body, but will be raised, IMO, a celestial body, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55.

 

[Golgotha]

When God said to Jesus before He created man, let's make man after our image, IMO I believe this means we were created after their attributes in what God intended us to be like, not a physical image as Spirit has no earthly form unless God gives it one and we know flesh and blood can not inherited the Kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 15:50.

We were each created with a physical body, but will be raised, IMO, a celestial body, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55.

Thank you for sharing however, I believe it was Jesus that made the request before getting the Father's permission to create man.

Jesus said this about Himself having seen the Father.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

So the God men had seen in the O.T. was Jesus Christ before His incarnation.

Jesus answering "God is a Spirit" to the Samaritan woman's question about where to worship God at, was about His omnipresence for how now, that Jesus was there, they can come to God the Father anywhere by the only way provided, by the Son, Jesus per John 14:6. So His answer cannot be anything else other than God is no longer confined to a singular specific place of worship.

Now some apply "invisible" as describing God the Father in scripture but invisible was also used to describe Jesus our King.

Colossians 1:15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

That above is the one verse they misapplied as the father being invisible, but I should point out, the image of the invisible would make Him & us invisible. So invisible does not mean what some have misapplied that verse to mean.

If we look at the one describing Jesus as invisible King & God...

1 Timothy 1:17Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Then we may be able to discern with Him that invisible means not presently seen rather than someone not having a celestial body that cannot be seen.

 

[Hopeful]

Thank you for sharing, however...

Scripture has designated the phrase "the Word of God" being Jesus Christ.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made....

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Paul also said it here as equating the Word of God as Jesus Christ Himself.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Just sharing Who I believe about the Word of God in scripture as being Jesus Christ.

In John 1, the Word is the pre-enfleshed Jesus.
In Heb. 4, the word is all of scripture.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Greetings all. I posted this elsewhere and thought maybe I would share it with my new forum as well, since I have a few days off for a little forum activity. There are a lot of non-Trinitarians on the forum where I initially posted this, which is why I thought it might be helpful in illuminating the Biblical text, and providing a support base for the teaching of the early church. There is a Part 2 and Part 3, but all center on passages that I feel non-Trinitarian arguments don't do very good job of refuting.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden In Him

First the verse: "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." (εἶχον πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι. John 17:5)

Quoting from Biblical Unitarian, here is one non-Trinitarian argument concerning this verse:

1. There is no question that Jesus “existed” before the world began. But did he exist literally as a person or in God’s foreknowledge, “in the mind of God?” Both Christ and the corporate be in the Body of Christ, the Church, existed in God’s foreknowledge before being alive. Christ was the “logos,” the “plan” of God from the beginning, and he became flesh only when he was conceived. It is Trinitarian bias that causes people to read an actual physical existence into this verse rather than a figurative existence in the mind of God. When 2 Timothy 1:9 says that each Christian was given grace “before the beginning of time,” no one tries to prove that we were actually alive with God back then. Everyone acknowledges that we were “in the mind of God,” i.e., in God’s foreknowledge. The same is true of Jesus Christ. His glory was “with the Father” before the world began, and in John 17:5he prayed that it would come into manifestation.

2. Jesus was praying that he would have the glory the Old Testament foretold, which had been in the mind of God, the Father, since before the world began, and would come into concretion. Trinitarians, however, teach that Jesus was praying about glory he had with God many years before his birth...
____________________

The problem with this argument is that Jesus in no uncertain terms asks to be clothed with the glory He had with the Father before the world began, not some glory that was "in the mind of God" before the world began. This is adding to the text to support a doctrinal bias.

I agree that a person's doctrines should not be formed out of doctrinal bias, as the author himself admitted when he stated, "It is Trinitarian bias that causes people to read an actual physical existence into this verse rather than a figurative existence in the mind of God." But he is committing the very sin he is accusing others of. The word ought to be read for what it says, not what it has to be manipulated into saying in order to suit someone's preconceived notions.

God bless,
Hidden In Him

Greetings Hidden In Him, and how are you all? I tell you from the OP/Jesus Is GOD, is the way that I long ago used to believe, but now I know from the scriptures which can not be broken, in which Jesus said himself that GOD is Spirit/John 4:24.

But it is evident from others also that they too are following Him in knowing Him to be The Son Of The Living GOD, The Only Begotten of The Father.

Love, Walter and Debbie

 

[Golgotha]

In John 1, the Word is the pre-enfleshed Jesus.

I see Him as having a celestial body that can be seen since we were created in His image per Genesis 1:26-27.

In Heb. 4, the word is all of scripture.

Seeing how this "Word of God" is a Discerner of the thought & intent of our hearts, and for why He is the One we are to answer to in Hebrews 4:12-16, I'd have to disagree.

It is on God to cause the increase and so thanks, for sharing anyway.

 

[Golgotha]

Greetings Hidden In Him, and how are you all? I tell you from the OP/Jesus Is GOD, is the way that I long ago used to believe, but now I know from the scriptures which can not be broken, in which Jesus said himself that GOD is Spirit/John 4:24.

But Jesus said that in answering the Samaritan woman's question as to where to worship God at; in the mountains or as the Jews do in Jerusalem?

Jesus was not saying God is a Spirit as if the Father is just a spirit, having no celestial body at all, but was conveying that God is omnipresence now that Jesus was there, meaning now and then, believers can come to God the Father anywhere as we are no longer restricted to a specific place of worship, but can come to the Father by coming to the Son ( John 14:6 ) in honoring the Son in worship in order to honor the Father anywhere ( John 5:22-23 ). So believers now can come to God the Father in worship in their very homes by coming to the Son to honor the Son in worship in their homes in order to honor the Father in worship. Jesus is how we are no longer restricted to a specific place of worship because believers can come to the Father in spirit & in truth anywhere by coming to & honoring the Son in worship anywhere now.

But it is evident from others also that they too are following Him in knowing Him to be The Son Of The Living GOD, The Only Begotten of The Father.

Love, Walter and Debbie

The scripture below is proof that we will see the Father in that day Jesus brings us Home to Heaven for why we would not need Jesus as our Mediator to ask for us, for we can ask the Father directly in seeing Him to ask for He loves us that much.

John 16:22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you. 23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

In John 4:24, To me, Jesus is talking about His Father as Spirit/GOD. and I'm also saying that God was in Christ.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

But it is evident from others also that they too are following Him in knowing Him to be The Son Of The Living GOD, The Only Begotten of The Father.

Love, Walter and Debbie

The scripture below is proof that we will see the Father in that day Jesus brings us Home to Heaven for why we would not need Jesus as our Mediator to ask for us, for we can ask the Father directly in seeing Him to ask for He loves us that much.

Speculation, but thanks.

Love, Walter

 

[Golgotha]

In John 4:24, To me, Jesus is talking about His Father as Spirit/GOD. and I'm also saying that God was in Christ.

Can you explain why Jesus gave that as an answer to the Samaritan woman's comment about where to worship God at?

John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

What is the significance of saying "God is a Spirit" to the woman's comment as to where to worship God at in relation to how you are applying His words to mean?

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Can you explain why Jesus gave that as an answer to the Samaritan woman's comment about where to worship God at?

John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

What is the significance of saying "God is a Spirit" to the woman's comment as to where to worship God at in relation to how you are applying His words to mean?

You are asking me questions that you already know because the scriptures are of no private interpretation, you seem to have a way with scriptures yourself.

 

[Golgotha]

You are asking me questions that you already know because the scriptures are of no private interpretation, you seem to have a way with scriptures yourself.

Just wanting to understand how you applied them since it was about Jesus telling the Samaritan woman something about where one can go to worship God at. I just could not see how your application of "God is a Spirit" aligns with what Jesus was saying to that woman for why He was saying it. I had thought you could explain this better to me so I can see how you read that to be about God the Father just being a Spirit.

It does not align with other scriptures I have read where the Father does have a celestial body as the Son did before His incarnation, and now the Son, once again after His resurrection & His ascension..

Pretty sure I have it right, thanks to Jesus, but just wanting you to explain that to me to make sure I did not miss anything in applying that reference since we prophesy in part & know in part so we will always be pruned in the knowledge of him in bearing more fruit until that day He comes to bring us Home perfect, we shall know all things face to face.

But I get the vibe that maybe you are put off by me and so I decline the inquiry.

Thank you for replying anyway. It helps me to know how the Lord will direct me to in this forum for any iron sharpening iron He may do with me in discussing with others..

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Just wanting to understand how you applied them since it was about Jesus telling the Samaritan woman something about where one can go to worship God at. I just could not see how your application of "God is a Spirit" aligns with what Jesus was saying to that woman for why He was saying it. I had thought you could explain this better to me so I can see how you read that to be about God the Father just being a Spirit.

It does not align with other scriptures I have read where the Father does have a celestial body as the Son did before His incarnation, and now the Son, once again after His resurrection & His ascension..

Pretty sure I have it right, thanks to Jesus, but just wanting you to explain that to me to make sure I did not miss anything in applying that reference since we prophesy in part & know in part so we will always be pruned in the knowledge of him in bearing more fruit until that day He comes to bring us Home perfect, we shall know all things face to face.

But I get the vibe that maybe you are put off by me and so I decline the inquiry.

Thank you for replying anyway. It helps me to know how the Lord will direct me to in this forum for any iron sharpening iron He may do with me in discussing with others..

Ok! if you notice, Jesus was discussing worship with her, But I think the reason that He said, God is Spirit is that, he was trying to get her to see that truth, that God is Spirit, and they that worship Him must worship in Spirit and in truth.

Jesus was being as truthful and as humble He could be.

But as far as the OP, I would say that Jesus was expressing His love for her, even though that moment of His time passing through that area.

 

[Golgotha]

Ok! if you notice, Jesus was discussing worship with her, But I think the reason that He said, God is Spirit is that, he was trying to get her to see that truth, that God is Spirit, and they that worship Him must worship in Spirit and in truth.

Thanks for sharing that.

I discern with Him the answer to be as deferring from the woman's comment about where to worship God at for why I still believe the way I do that He was saying now they can worship God anywhere for why He said God is a Spirit.

I am still open to Him for correction if the point of truth about what He was saying was meaning something else, but I trust Him to let me know sooner rather than later..

Jesus was being as truthful and as humble He could be.

But as far as the OP, I would say that Jesus was expressing His love for her, even though that moment of His time passing through that area.

Definitely. Thanks for sharing.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Thanks for sharing that.

I discern with Him the answer to be as deferring from the woman's comment about where to worship God at for why I still believe the way I do that He was saying now they can worship God anywhere for why He said God is a Spirit.

I am still open to Him for correction if the point of truth about what He was saying was meaning something else, but I trust Him to let me know sooner rather than later..

Definitely. Thanks for sharing.

I also thank you for your time and understanding.

Love, Walter

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Greetings all. I posted this elsewhere and thought maybe I would share it with my new forum as well, since I have a few days off for a little forum activity. There are a lot of non-Trinitarians on the forum where I initially posted this, which is why I thought it might be helpful in illuminating the Biblical text, and providing a support base for the teaching of the early church. There is a Part 2 and Part 3, but all center on passages that I feel non-Trinitarian arguments don't do very good job of refuting.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden In Him

First the verse: "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." (εἶχον πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι. John 17:5)

Quoting from Biblical Unitarian, here is one non-Trinitarian argument concerning this verse:

1. There is no question that Jesus “existed” before the world began. But did he exist literally as a person or in God’s foreknowledge, “in the mind of God?” Both Christ and the corporate be in the Body of Christ, the Church, existed in God’s foreknowledge before being alive. Christ was the “logos,” the “plan” of God from the beginning, and he became flesh only when he was conceived. It is Trinitarian bias that causes people to read an actual physical existence into this verse rather than a figurative existence in the mind of God. When 2 Timothy 1:9 says that each Christian was given grace “before the beginning of time,” no one tries to prove that we were actually alive with God back then. Everyone acknowledges that we were “in the mind of God,” i.e., in God’s foreknowledge. The same is true of Jesus Christ. His glory was “with the Father” before the world began, and in John 17:5he prayed that it would come into manifestation.

2. Jesus was praying that he would have the glory the Old Testament foretold, which had been in the mind of God, the Father, since before the world began, and would come into concretion. Trinitarians, however, teach that Jesus was praying about glory he had with God many years before his birth...
____________________

The problem with this argument is that Jesus in no uncertain terms asks to be clothed with the glory He had with the Father before the world began, not some glory that was "in the mind of God" before the world began. This is adding to the text to support a doctrinal bias.

I agree that a person's doctrines should not be formed out of doctrinal bias, as the author himself admitted when he stated, "It is Trinitarian bias that causes people to read an actual physical existence into this verse rather than a figurative existence in the mind of God." But he is committing the very sin he is accusing others of. The word ought to be read for what it says, not what it has to be manipulated into saying in order to suit someone's preconceived notions.

God bless,
Hidden In Him

He Is The Image Of The Invisible God
Colossians 1:15-20

Colossians 1 KJV

Love, Walter and Debbie

 

[Golgotha]

He Is The Image Of The Invisible God
Colossians 1:15-20

Colossians 1 KJV

Love, Walter and Debbie

Thank you for sharing but there can be pause in reading that.

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

How can Jesus be the first born of the invisible God? Would that not also make Him invisible along with every other creature?

So there is pause that maybe invisible is not really meaning what we think in scripture.

It just so happens that there is another use of invisible in scripture but about Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

So I put forth this discernment as from Him that invisible means "not presently seen" since we will see Him soon and the Father as well in Heaven.

Jesus did say in that day we will not need Him anymore to ask for us but we can go directly to the father to see him to ask Him because He loves us too.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

He did say this earlier about His leaving His disciples at His ascension to the Father.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

So when we are in Heaven where Jesus is and where the father is also, in that day we will be able to see the Father also to ask Him directly without needing Jesus to as for us.

So He did bring a light into His words about Jesus's request to the Father to make man in "our image" and after "our likeness" in Genesis 1:26 and so that informs me that the Son & Father each has a celestial body after whose image man was created after,

Thank you for sharing. Hopefully in the Lord, you can understand my pause on that issue.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Thank you for sharing but there can be pause in reading that.

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

How can Jesus be the first born of the invisible God? Would that not also make Him invisible along with every other creature?

So there is pause that maybe invisible is not really meaning what we think in scripture.

It just so happens that there is another use of invisible in scripture but about Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

So I put forth this discernment as from Him that invisible means "not presently seen" since we will see Him soon and the Father as well in Heaven.

Jesus did say in that day we will not need Him anymore to ask for us but we can go directly to the father to see him to ask Him because He loves us too.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

He did say this earlier about His leaving His disciples at His ascension to the Father.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

So when we are in Heaven where Jesus is and where the father is also, in that day we will be able to see the Father also to ask Him directly without needing Jesus to as for us.

So He did bring a light into His words about Jesus's request to the Father to make man in "our image" and after "our likeness" in Genesis 1:26 and so that informs me that the Son & Father each has a celestial body after whose image man was created after,

Thank you for sharing. Hopefully in the Lord, you can understand my pause on that issue.

First of all, you did find this pause in what Paul said, maybe?

 

[Golgotha]

First of all, you did find this pause in what Paul said, maybe?

Well, yes in a way, since Jesus is not invisible to be the image of the invisible God. I take pause in how believers had usually applied that verse to mean that God the Father had no image or that He has no body to be seen. So by reading that verse in how believers and teachers usually apply it to mean, I take pause because Jesus is not invisible.

And then again in another reference, Jesus is also referred as invisible for why I had discerned with Him that it must mean not presently seen rather than not having a body to be seen.

So from both verses, in the first one, it is about how God the Father is not presently seen whereas in the second one as of now, Jesus is not presently seen, yet we know we will see Him soon and so the same also has to be true for the Father.

That is where I am now in my understanding those verses to mean, thanks to Him.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Well, yes in a way, since Jesus is not invisible to be the image of the invisible God. I take pause in how believers had usually applied that verse to mean that God the Father had no image or that He has no body to be seen. So by reading that verse in how believers and teachers usually apply it to mean, I take pause because Jesus is not invisible.

And then again in another reference, Jesus is also referred as invisible for why I had discerned with Him that it must mean not presently seen rather than not having a body to be seen.

So from both verses, in the first one, it is about how God the Father is not presently seen whereas in the second one as of now, Jesus is not presently seen, yet we know we will see Him soon and so the same also has to be true for the Father.

That is where I am now in my understanding those verses to mean, thanks to Him.

Then, tell me, why do you think that Paul used the word image?

Clarke's Commentary​

Verse 15. Who is the image of the invisible God — The counterpart of God Almighty, and if the image of the invisible God, consequently nothing that appeared in him could be that image; for if it could be visible in the Son, it could also be visible in the Father; but if the Father be invisible, consequently his image in the Son must be invisible also. This is that form of God of which he divested himself; the ineffable glory in which he not only did not appear, as to its splendour and accompaniments, but concealed also its essential nature; that inaccessible light which no man, no created being, can possibly see. This was that Divine nature, the fulness of the Godhead bodily, which dwelt in him.

The first-born of every creature — I suppose this phrase to mean the same as that, Philippians 2:9 (NAS)

9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
Philippians 2:9: God hath given him a name which is above every name; he is as man at the head of all the creation of God; nor can he with any propriety be considered as a creature, having himself created all things, and existed before any thing was made. If it be said that God created him first, and that he, by a delegated power from God, created all things, this is most flatly contradicted by the apostle's reasoning in the 16th and 17th verses.

 

[Golgotha]

Then, tell me, why do you think that Paul used the word image?

Clarke's Commentary​

Verse 15. Who is the image of the invisible God — The counterpart of God Almighty, and if the image of the invisible God, consequently nothing that appeared in him could be that image; for if it could be visible in the Son, it could also be visible in the Father; but if the Father be invisible, consequently his image in the Son must be invisible also. This is that form of God of which he divested himself; the ineffable glory in which he not only did not appear, as to its splendour and accompaniments, but concealed also its essential nature; that inaccessible light which no man, no created being, can possibly see. This was that Divine nature, the fulness of the Godhead bodily, which dwelt in him.

The first-born of every creature — I suppose this phrase to mean the same as that, Philippians 2:9 (NAS)

9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
Philippians 2:9: God hath given him a name which is above every name; he is as man at the head of all the creation of God; nor can he with any propriety be considered as a creature, having himself created all things, and existed before any thing was made. If it be said that God created him first, and that he, by a delegated power from God, created all things, this is most flatly contradicted by the apostle's reasoning in the 16th and 17th verses.

Putting Clarke's commentary aside, and leaning on Him, I read Jesus who is the image of the invisible God as meaning Jesus as the image of God the Father not presently seen, but we will because Jesus said we will in Heaven in John 16:23-28

Thank you for sharing. I hope you have a good night.