Jesus Is God: Part 1

[Free]

I have made very explicit explanation about what I have come to see and your answers leave me to think, "Did he read what I wrote?" I don't think I could be any more clearer. I will for instance try to clarify a bit more in the next reply below.

I certainly have read what you have written and am fairly confident I have understood.

By "sacrifice" I mean at the entrance of sin it was the Son laying down His life to be our life because we threw our life away. Consider what it is to be God and Creator and to condescend to be so identify with humanity that He became nothing more than what we might consider to be our 'conscience'. That word 'conscience' does not even come close to what I am saying.

And, yet, you can provide no verse that supports this. That is what I am getting at. The only time the Son laid down his life for humans was on the cross and the only time the Son indwelt humans was after the cross.

The following is a parable: You have a child of 3 years. You have so many plans and goals. You have a beautiful wife whom you love dearly. You both have foreknowledge that he is going to have a failed life, enslaved to a terrible man and die in poverty and misery. You and your wife council together and come up with a plan where she is willing, out of love for your son, to give you up and you have covenanted to sacrifice all the joys of the life you have planned together. The decision is heart rending but out of love for the son you both agree for you to leave her, lay down your happy life to give your son your a life of joy. You become as a seed and enter into your son to subtly guide and influence him in the path of life so that he can have all of the joys and blessings that you have sacrificed. You will have no life of your own but your life is to serve him. Often he makes bad choices and drags you through situations that are so painful to watch and they are a torture for you to bear. Yet you continue on pleading on his behalf to walk the strait and narrow. You cannot enjoy a life of your own because you are constantly working against forces that will destroy him.
Now magnify that by billions of 'son's and daughters' That is what I mean by sacrifice.

Okay, but that is simply a story to convey what you personally believe, but is not what happened at the Fall.

Why would God do this? He demonstrated that he would never ask His creation to do anything that he was not, first, willing to do himself. And what I see as a sacrifice, I'm not talking about blood and torture. I'm talking about giving your life away that you might receive His divine life everlasting. At the time of sin the Son gave His life away to us, to be our life and draw us back to the Father. The life that Adam had was now gone. Spiritually extinct. and what he is asking is that we surrender 'sacrifice' our life that we might receive His. The sacrifice we surrender to is not to atone. It is to give up this living dead life because it is headed to the grave anyway.
with the promise of Genesis 3:15 I believe it was given right then when we needed it most. there was nothing in us to return to God, the had perished and we were left with the nature of Satan. Filled with enmity and fear of the One who created and loved us.

Except that, again, it is nowhere stated in the Bible that "At the time of sin the Son gave His life away to us, to be our life and draw us back to the Father," nor that "the promise of Genesis 3:15 I believe it was given right then when we needed it most."

If we have the promise of the Son being in us now why would Love withhold that Gift for 4000 years?

Simply because he did. Again, was according to his plan and purpose:

Act 2:23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. (ESV)

Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,
Gal 4:5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. (ESV)

And why did he do it?

Rom 3:9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,
Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
Rom 3:11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
Rom 3:12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
Rom 3:13 “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.”
Rom 3:14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
Rom 3:15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Rom 3:16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
Rom 3:17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
Rom 3:18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (ESV)

Which, in part, comes from:

Psa 14:2 The LORD looks down from heaven on the children of man, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God.
Psa 14:3 They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one. (ESV)

Gal 4:3 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world. (ESV)

Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. (ESV)

People simply were and are evil, "following the prince of the power of the air," being "enslaved," and are "by nature children of wrath." There is never any mention of God nor the Son of God permanently indwelling humans prior to Jesus's resurrection.

That is why understanding who Jesus was in his humanity, that he was one with us, just as we are. He was the son of Mary, David and Adam with all of the weaknesses that we have. The divine Son of God, an eternal being, a spirit being, was given full acquiescence by Jesus to rule his human life to express the divine life through him in his physical body. So intimate was that union they were as one. His purpose was to make us AT-ONE with the Father.

But this is not at all biblical; it has long been considered heresy, as I pointed out previously. Jesus, who is the Son of God in human flesh, is "the son of Mary." The Son was not "given full acquiescence by Jesus to rule his human life to express the divine life through him in his physical body."

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
...
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. (ESV)

Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. (ESV)

The Son added a human body, and thus a human nature, to himself. He did not come and possess an already existent human being. He is both God and man, two natures united in one person, not two persons in one body.

 

[Free]

He does the atoning He brings us to our cross and lays down with us and helps us do what is impossible for us to do on our on.
By surrendering His life to live within each of us, He would replace that which perished in Eden. As a replacement spiritual life He could be our spiritual eyes and ears he could provide us with a heart drawn out to the Father, which was no longer there in our natural physical life. He can provide us with a love for the Father and the willingness sacrifice our will to obey the Father and to listen and hear the Father speaking to our soul.
If we are told that it is God who dwells in us to both will and do according to Hid good pleasure. If He will live in us and walk in us and be our God [2 Cor. 6:16 now, why not starting in Eden?

Because he didn't. That is what the Bible unequivocally makes clear. The Fall severed our relationship with God. That is the entire story of the OT, with all the outworking of that. We are only able to be brought back into relationship through Jesus's death on the cross.

Well, I could go on but if this is insufficient to clarify.... What more can I say.

All of which confirms that I have pretty much understood you the whole time.

Can you not see that God does not force us but draws us...everyone of us. Billions resist and parish. Having God living in us does not guarantee salvation, but it does give us an ability to be receptive, which we otherwise could not do. There are those who crucify Him afresh. Paul said he could be a cast away 'reprobate'. Hebrews talks about those who turn way after having received knowledge. Information is not salvation salvation knowledge comes through an internal experience with God. Matthew 16 speaks of this when Peter came to the understanding of who Jesus was. It came by divine revelation not the things of nature, nor did he study it out or have a local rabbi explain it.
I can give you a specific text but, how could God not give to those in the past what is so paramountly important that He gives to us now?

Why should he? Again, you're basing this entirely on your own personal, subjective opinion and feelings. This is not how we come to a proper understanding of Scripture. Certain persons recognized the promise of God to Eve, that one day sin would be vanquished, that he would provide a way to bring us back into relationship. That was the hope of the OT saints.

Religious dogma has put God in a box

Be careful in believing your opinion is correct over against "religious dogma," when the latter could be what the Bible actually states. This is all the more important as I have given several passages to support what I have said and you have yet to give any for your position.

Jesus died because the Adam nature was condemned to die. The Son did not die because you cannot kill God. I will say that he was so intimately connected with the son of Mary that he felt and experienced all of the physical and emotional pain right up until all of the life of Adam was drained out of him. The Son lay silent within Jesus until the Father called him Forth. It was the eternal divine life of the Son that brought forth Jesus from the tomb. Adam's nature did not come out of that tomb. It was made extinct. He became a new Adam or progenitor of a new race of beings. New creatures where divinity and humanity are combined. Over these new beings Satan has no power.

What do you mean by "the Adam nature"? If you mean sinful nature, then you are correct. If you mean human nature, then no. We will always remain human, although our bodies will be glorified one day, as Jesus's was.

Jesus, who is the Son of God, died for our sins, in our place, as a propitiatory sacrifice so that we could be reconciled to God.

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Eph. 4
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal 2
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. 2 Thes.2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 1 Cor.13

Okay, but none of that supports what your claim, which was: "When the believers come to the fulness of the stature of the Son of God and He is glorified in His saints then the people of God could go home."

 

[Randy]

Sorry bro but you keep ignoring that the scripture plainly says all things were created by Him.


For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16


Who created all things?


God
Man
Angel

I have not ignored anything. God created by Him just as God spoke to us by Him.

Hebrews 1
In the past "God" spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days "he" has spoken to us by his Son, whom "he" appointed heir of all things, and through whom also "he" made the universe.

 

[Randy]

Yal are really deep
You lost me

Are you JLB saying that God is a family

And Randy saying God is the mind and creates through His word?

God created through His Son. God is Spirit. So the person of the Father dwells in the person of the Son in the fullness of the Fathers Deity. The person of the Son is all that the person of the Father is in that unity. They are ONE. In Him, the person of the Son, the person of the Father created all things. So God created BY/through/ all things.

 

[Randy]

What was He before He became the Son of man?

If He is before all things, and by Him all things were created, which includes angel and human beings then He is God; God the Son.

He is Gods Firstborn and has always been a Son. The writer of Hebrews contrasts His Sonship vs the angels of God to show the superiority of His Sonship vs the Angels of God. In the Firstborn of all creation the fullness was pleased to dwell. The Firstborn is the only like to like begotten Son of the Father. The begotten God. The Father is unbegotten. everything Jesus is and has He received from the Father. The Father has not received from any other for He is the stated source of all things. From the Father through the Son as we read.

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. Colossians 1:16

• For by Him all things were created

Yes "God" created by Him and "God" spoke to us by Him. The Father is living in Him. IN HIM IS NOT HIM for if Jesus was Deity there would be no need for the Deity to dwell IN Him. The Father is that Deity. The only true unbegotten God.

And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Yes He, (His spirit),is the beginning of the creation of God and the firstborn of all creation. Just as He is the beginning of the resurrection and the firstborn from the dead. He has the preeminence in all things.

Colossians 1:17


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

Certainly

Instead of rearranging the scripture to bend them your own understanding, why not read and believe what the scriptures say?

Ditto

But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10

Again the Same writer as in Hebrews 1:1-2 His God created by Him.

The Son stretched out the heavens and laid the foundation of the earth!


Question -

Was the heavens and the earth created by:

An angel?
A man?
God?

GOD created
the twenty-four elders fall down before "him who sits on the throne" and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11“You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by "your will" they were created
"and have their being.”

GOD OUR "FATHER". VS Jesus OUR LORD.

 

[Randy]

Just as the husband submits what us to be made the wife is the one who creates it.

No, The person of God the Father created by the person of the Son. All things were created according to the will of the person of the Father and at His command.

the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11“You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being.”

 

[JLB]

God created by Him just as God spoke to us by Him.

This is totally unbiblical.


If you believe God created His only begotten Son then proved the scripture that says so.

 

[JLB]

No, The person of God the Father created by the person of the Son. All things were created according to the will of the person of the Father and at His command.

the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11“You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being.”

Everyone is worshipping the Father and the Son.


And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:
“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Revelation 5:13


Him who sits on the throne and the Lamb are worshipped.



“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” Revelation 22:12-13



“Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:
I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
Isaiah 44:6


“Listen to Me, O Jacob,
And Israel, My called:
I am He, I am the First,
I am also the Last.
Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,
And My right hand has stretched out the heavens;
When I call to them, they stand up together.
Isaiah 48:12-13


The Son laid the foundation of the earth and stretched out the heavens.


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:8-10



To deny that Jesus Christ is LORD; YHWH the LORD God is to deny the scriptures.



Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5


Who is coming with the saints on the Day of the LORD? Jesus Christ!

 

[leroy]

Free said
So far, I have provided many passages from Scripture, which you have not addressed, and you have yet to provide any. This is a serious problem. Our doctrine must be based on Scripture, otherwise its entirely subjective and will likely lead us astray.

Jesus never seperates Himself and says I obey the son in me.

You're correct. However it is the Son in him which gives him the ability to hear and obey what the Father says. Jesus was a human of the seed of David according to the flesh. The Son is a divine spirit who lived in his flesh body and was the life that was expressed through Jesus. Just as a demon can possess, speak, and move in a human body. The man who is possessed does not say , "Now the demon is going to talk to you..." God created this ability of habitation for His use and it was hijacked by demons. The Son and Jesus were so intimately combined that they were one. And the main point which I have tried to share is that the same is offered to each of us.

He does say: He always does what is pleasing to the father and the Father never leaves Him alone.

He also said that before Abraham was I AM. If Jesus (the human) was of the seed of Abraham, he couls not say that. The Son within could.

.........

But what is interesting is

He had His own will which means to me He had His own Spirit.

This is an assumption that bears looking at. The will is very important. By it we decide who will rule in our life. The spirit that was supplied to humanity in creation died when sin entered, that was the promise. You and I are spiritually dead at birth and will die physically eventually. Yet we read, "He that believes in me shall never die." Why is that? "I am the resurrection and the life." He is our spirit (on loan so to speak ) and will become one with us as we yield up and die to self and the fleshly desires, just as Jesus did. The Son will marry us to Himself and the Father so that we will never die. The only spirit we have is the Spirit of God; ie the Son who is spirit.
The human Jesus could never make that statement of himself. it was God in him doing the speaking.

Which shows Jesus has a Spirit, and God has Spirit.

Makes me also think of:

Matthew 11:14
And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

 

[leroy]

Because the context of the verse extends to the future and becomes a prophecy.

Fellow Traveler,
Lets look at the context. The Creator is speaking to all three.
And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
The context is clearly referring to Eve, her children and to the situation at hand. However, it is prophetic and we can infer that we too have been given that same gift as they were given.
This morning in my meditations I was so blessed:
It was the enmity that Gave. "Her seed" is referring to her children.
For the first time I saw that it is the gift of a Godly hatred of evil, or 'enmity', that resists and bruises the serpents head. Godly hatred is not a thing but it is a part of His very nature. Only God can appropriately hate evil, without contaminating His own self. That is why He says vengeance is mine.
When we hate from the flesh it always leaves us contaminated with that very evil itself. Therefore it is the Son who comes in and resists the serpent and shall bruise his head. By this we are delivered from a fleshly religion that fights sin with sin and fails in the fighting of it.
We must have God in us to resist evil. That is why I say, As soon as there was sin, there was a Savior.
The 'seed' in this verse refers to Eve's descendants, He is speaking of Eve's children, that includes us too. Sin had entered the world and man was without hope unless God intervened. Eve's children needed all the help they could get in their struggles in a world of sin. They were given exactly what we are given, the life of the Son and He is the enmity.
Their sacrifices were to teach them that He gave up His life to teach them and us to give up our life and except His eternal life. When we face our own evil that we love so much the cross reminds us that it is always painful to die to it.
Did the devil have seed? "you are of your of your father the devil"
We are assaulted daily with thoughts and suggestions which are like seeds. They will produce evil if we give consent and own them as our own thoughts. As we are impregnated by these seeds we give birth in words and actions which develops habits that determine our character. by this we become children of the devil expressing his nature. We become his seed.

And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
Genesis 3:15
Seed refers to Jesus. Which makes “her” Mary.

You have added words that are not in scripture to prove your point.

 

[JLB]

Fellow Traveler,
Lets look at the context. The Creator is speaking to all three.
And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
The context is clearly referring to Eve, her children and to the situation at hand. However, it is prophetic and we can infer that we too have been given that same gift as they were given.
This morning in my meditations I was so blessed:
It was the enmity that Gave. "Her seed" is referring to her children.
For the first time I saw that it is the gift of a Godly hatred of evil, or 'enmity', that resists and bruises the serpents head. Godly hatred is not a thing but it is a part of His very nature. Only God can appropriately hate evil, without contaminating His own self. That is why He says vengeance is mine.
When we hate from the flesh it always leaves us contaminated with that very evil itself. Therefore it is the Son who comes in and resists the serpent and shall bruise his head. By this we are delivered from a fleshly religion that fights sin with sin and fails in the fighting of it.
We must have God in us to resist evil. That is why I say, As soon as there was sin, there was a Savior.
The 'seed' in this verse refers to Eve's descendants, He is speaking of Eve's children, that includes us too. Sin had entered the world and man was without hope unless God intervened. Eve's children needed all the help they could get in their struggles in a world of sin. They were given exactly what we are given, the life of the Son and He is the enmity.
Their sacrifices were to teach them that He gave up His life to teach them and us to give up our life and except His eternal life. When we face our own evil that we love so much the cross reminds us that it is always painful to die to it.
Did the devil have seed? "you are of your of your father the devil"
We are assaulted daily with thoughts and suggestions which are like seeds. They will produce evil if we give consent and own them as our own thoughts. As we are impregnated by these seeds we give birth in words and actions which develops habits that determine our character. by this we become children of the devil expressing his nature. We become his seed.

You have added words that are not in scripture to prove your point.

And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
Genesis 3:15

• And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head,
• And you shall bruise His heel.”

Who does the Seed refer to?

 

[leroy]

And, yet, you can provide no verse that supports this. That is what I am getting at. The only time the Son laid down his life for humans was on the cross and the only time the Son indwelt humans was after the cross.

"Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." 1 Peter1:11

But this is not at all biblical; it has long been considered heresy, as I pointed out previously. Jesus, who is the Son of God in human flesh, is "the son of Mary." The Son was not "given full acquiescence by Jesus to rule his human life to express the divine life through him in his physical body."

Since we are post resurrection, Are there those who have given full acquiescence to the Son to rule their human life, to express his divine life through them in their physical body

The Son added a human body, and thus a human nature, to himself. He did not come and possess an already existent human being. He is both God and man, two natures united in one person, not two persons in one body.

How about us? Does He possess our body today?

 

[Randy]

This is totally unbiblical.


If you believe God created His only begotten Son then proved the scripture that says so.

If Jesus is not the Fathers Son in the beginning then whose Son is He?
True God FROM true God yet it should be God FROM true God for the Deity of the source true God is the Fathers.

“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation.

The Firstborn of all creation.

If the Spirit in Christ in you is the new creation then the fullness that was pleased to dwell in the Son qualifies as a creation of God. Col 1:19- Clearly from the will of another and at a point in history before the world began.

I only believe in ONE true unbegotten God -The Father
As discussed the nature found in the Word or Son is the Fathers nature as its His Deity. In that context only the Son is God.

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

As presented repeatedly GOD created through/by His Son. It was the Fathers Deity that created even if its shown in the persona of the Son.

I'm quite biblical and my source of understanding in this is from My Lord. ONE TRUE GOD THE FATHER

I have no need to rewrite a new creed.
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

 

[Randy]

Everyone is worshipping the Father and the Son.

I have believed and prayed to Jesus as far back as my memory Goes. I worship My Lord Jesus Christ. He was found worthy of such worship, honor and power by HIS God and Father. Those who've love the Son are loved by the Father.

And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:
“Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Revelation 5:13


Him who sits on the throne and the Lamb are worshipped.



“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” Revelation 22:12-13



“Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:
I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
Isaiah 44:6

Jesus stated who that person was. The Father. His God and our God, His Father and our Father.
Just as He lives by the living Father we live by Him. As I keep stating its the Fathers Deity IN HIM. The eternal life found in the Son is the Father.
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

“Listen to Me, O Jacob,
And Israel, My called:
I am He, I am the First,
I am also the Last.
Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,
And My right hand has stretched out the heavens;
When I call to them, they stand up together.
Isaiah 48:12-13


The Son laid the foundation of the earth and stretched out the heavens.


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:8-10

already addressed
Same writer
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophetsat many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

And God{Singular} reconciled us to HIMSELF through His Son.
Col 1:20
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

About the Son
Why the need?
And again, when God brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

To deny that Jesus Christ is LORD; YHWH the LORD God is to deny the scriptures.

Not true. In Christ ALL the FULLNESS of the Deity of God. the Father was pleased to DWELL. He is ALL that the Father is but is Gods only like to like begotten Son. And By Him God created all things.
The Father is YHWH. Jesus as call Him is YHWH's firstborn and has always been the Son.

Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5


Who is coming with the saints on the Day of the LORD? Jesus Christ!

I believe in that bodily resurrection. It will be carried out by the Deity that was pleased to dwell in the Son as is all the Fathers works Jesus performs.
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

 

[JLB]

If Jesus is not the Fathers Son in the beginning then whose Son is He?

Jesus is the only begotten son of God.

Did you create your son or beget him?

 

[JLB]

I have believed and prayed to Jesus as far back as my memory Goes. I worship My Lord Jesus Christ. He was found worthy of such worship, honor and power by HIS God and Father. Those who've love the Son are loved by the Father.

Do we worship men or God?

 

[leroy]

If Jesus is not the Fathers Son in the beginning then whose Son is He?

Jesus was a man of flesh, he was Mary's son. He had to have come from an egg in her ovary as he was born of the seed (genetics) of David, Abraham and by extension Adam. God somehow kick started that egg into life. Within that human embryo dwelt a Spiritual Being, The eternal Son who was in union with the human being. I think most people say "He was fully God and fully man." Well, this explains how that could be. But I prefer humanity and divinity combined.
The Father initiated the life in that egg, so clearly his father was God as all true believers are. And yet he was born of flesh and blood
Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;"
When sin entered in, God gave the human race the Gift of enmity against Satan. prior to that moment we had an enmity towards God and Satan was the source of that hatred. God had to tip the scales in our favor so He gave us His Son who was the source of our enmity against Satan, for only God can have a hatred of evil without being contaminated by it.
Have you ever felt hatred? It is an ugly thing which contaminates you from within and it comes from the flesh. So God provided His son to give us a divine resistance or enmity against the sophistry of Satan.
I hope this helps

True God FROM true God yet it should be God FROM true God for the Deity of the source true God is the Fathers.

“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation.

The Firstborn of all creation.

If the Spirit in Christ in you is the new creation then the fullness that was pleased to dwell in the Son qualifies as a creation of God. Col 1:19- Clearly from the will of another and at a point in history before the world began.

I only believe in ONE true unbegotten God -The Father
As discussed the nature found in the Word or Son is the Fathers nature as its His Deity. In that context only the Son is God.

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

As presented repeatedly GOD created through/by His Son. It was the Fathers Deity that created even if its shown in the persona of the Son.

I'm quite biblical and my source of understanding in this is from My Lord. ONE TRUE GOD THE FATHER

I have no need to rewrite a new creed.
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

 

[Free]

"Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." 1 Peter1:11

Yes, which does not mean that the Son was indwelling them. The Holy Spirit never indwelt anyone in the OT other than temporarily. The prophets often spoke that which they heard from God through the Spirit.

Since we are post resurrection, Are there those who have given full acquiescence to the Son to rule their human life, to express his divine life through them in their physical body

This is entirely different than saying that Jesus gave the Son permission to possess him. Mary's son is Jesus and he is the Son of God in human flesh--one person, the Son, two natures, human and divine.

How about us? Does He possess our body today?

No, the language of possession is not correct.

 

[leroy]

Yes, which does not mean that the Son was indwelling them. The Holy Spirit never indwelt anyone in the OT other than temporarily. The prophets often spoke that which they heard from God through the Spirit.


This is entirely different than saying that Jesus gave the Son permission to possess him. Mary's son is Jesus and he is the Son of God in human flesh--one person, the Son, two natures, human and divine.


No, the language of possession is not correct.

it seems that there is no reason to continue. Very disappointing

 

[Randy]

Jesus is the only begotten son of God.

Did you create your son or beget him?

Begotten of the Father before all worlds but not made.
I agree in part.
His spirit is begotten. The Father's Deity that was pleased to dwell in Him by the Fathers will is unbegotten.
In that unity the Son is all that the Father is. God, yet even so He is Gods Firstborn. A Son of the Father. Hence Jesus's cohesive testimony that the person of the Father is in fact His God and His Father. He sat down with His Father on His Fathers throne. The New Jerusalem will one day come down from His God to this earth.

I believe "all" that is written of Him not just certain passages of scripture to promote a theological position.

So one more time and this answer will never change as it was given to me from above.
Is Jesus God?
He never dies.
Yes, He is all that the Father is.
No, He has always been the Son.