Bible Study JESUS OUR EXAMPLE and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi JBL,

Great post thanks for explaining yourself further. I understand where you are coming from better now and appreciated your great detailed reply.

Again, I believe we are to keep all His Commandments. I don't believe we are to keep the Sabbath according to the law of Moses. The Sabbath is for man to rest each week. I didn't say we don't keep the Sabbath.
I said I believe we don't keep the Sabbath according to the law of Moses.
You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:14-15 I don't see this requirement of putting to death those who pick up sticks to make a fire on the Sabbath which is what the law of Moses required.

How many people have you put to death because they did work on the Sabbath?

Yes I agree as well. Did you know that Exodus 31:14-15 is in reference to the CIVIL laws of Moses for Israel under the Old Covenant. There was a death penalty for everyone who openly broke nearly all of God's LAW (10 commandments) under the Old Covenant. Of course we are in the New Covenant now. These CIVIL laws were to teach God's people that the "WAGES of SIN" were death. IN the NEW Covenant that death penalty has not ceased but will be executed at the 2nd coming for those that reject the GIFT of God's dear son (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-27; Matthew 7:19; 2 Cor 5:10; 2 Peter 3:10; Matt 25:46; Romans 2:5; 2 Peter 2:1-9; Matthew 16:27; Romans 2:12 etc..)

The CIVIL laws of Moses only apply to the nation of Israel under the Old Covenant and are NOT applicable to those in the NEW Covenant as we are only to obey the laws of the land in the country that we are living in. The following is a list of the other CIVIL laws for the death penalty where people openly broke God's LAW in Israel in the Old Covenant...

Civil Law DEATH penalties for the law of Moses

1. Serving other Gods (Deut 13:6-18; 1Sam 26:19)
2. Idolatary (Deut 13:1-10; 17:2-5; 27:15; Deut 7:25-26)
3. Using God's name in vain (Lev 24:10-17 )
4. Breaking God's Sabbath (Exodus 31:14-15; 35:2)
5. Dishonor Parents (Lev 20:9; Deut 21:18-21; Ex 21:17)
6. Murder (Ex 21:12-14)
7. Adultery (Lev 20:10; John 8:5)
8. Stealing (kidnapping) (Exodus 20:6)
9. Lying (Deuteronomy 19:15-21)

The CIVIL laws of Moses were to teach God's people that the punishment for SIN was death. This is the same in the NEW Covenant but only carried out at the 2nd coming. It was also a Shadow that is yet to be fulfilled pointing to the 2nd coming (see scriptures above).

So under the NEW Covenant this DEATH sentance is carried out at the 2nd coming against all those who reject God's Word and refuse the GIFT of God's dear son.

continued....

 

[LoveGodsWord]

4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike.Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

Romans 14:4-6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.

Interesting Chapter this one in Romans JLB. You use it as an excuse not to keep God's 4th commandment, as many have been taught.

How many people have you put to death because they did work on the Sabbath?

Where in the chapter or in the whole book of Romans does it even mention God's 4th commandment of the 7th day Sabbath of God's commandment?

If the whole chapter or book of Romans does not even mention God's LAW, the 4th commandment of the 7th day Sabbath of God's LAW why do you think it is talking about God's LAW (10 commandments)?

The simple truth is that the Chapter is not about God's commandment as it is not even mentioned. Let's look at the chapter and see what it is talking about...........

Romans 14
1, Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.
2, For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3, Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4, Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Now to the meat and potatoes…

5, One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6, He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…...............

(6), He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

links to .....

Isaiah 58
5, Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?

links to.....

Luke 18
11, The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12, I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

From Bullingers Companion Bible…........

Luke 18:12
Twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7). By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts. In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost; and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.

Yes they fasted sometimes two days a week and also annually in the feasts of Lev 23.

7, For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8, For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9, For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10, But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?
for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11, For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12, So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13, Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14, I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean <ceremonially profaned, defiled or unholy> of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean<ceremonially profaned, defiled or unholy>, to him it is unclean.
15, But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

(14) At the time meat and drink were offered to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.

1Cor 10
25, Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

Shambles ; μάκελλον; makellon; mak'-el-lon Of Latin origin [macellum ]; a butcher's stall, meat market or provision shop: - shambles.

There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by the thought of food being offered to idols. They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the idolatrous practices around them.

Some points to consider in Romans 14:1-15............

1. The chapter is talking about a number of related topics
2. Overall it is talking about not juding those who are weak in the faith in relation to food connected to days or days dedicated to the Lord and that is all it is talking about.
3. Food connected to days in usually in relation to the annual festivals or fasting connected to weekly or Holy days unto the Lord (Lev 16:29. Num 29:7; Issaiah 58:5; Luke 18:11-12).
4. There is no mention of the Sabbath or God's 4th commandment in this chapter or the entire book of Romans.
5. Romans 14 is not talking about ABOLISHING ANY DAYS but only talking about judging others in relation to food or fasting connected to days dedicated to the LORD and food offered to idols.
6. The Chapter is consistant with all the other writing of Paul in relation to the jewish annual holy days fulfilled in Christ (eg, Colossains 2; Ephesians 2; Galatains 4:10; Hebrews 9:9-15; 10:1-17).
7. Paul's topics is summarised in v17; For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

It is very clear from reading the scriptures that this whole Chapter has nothing whatsoever at all to do with the 4th commandment which is to keep Holy the 7th day Sabbath

The law of Moses was added to the Abrahamic Covenant until the Seed should come.19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19 The Seed has come and the law has been nailed to the cross, abolished in His flesh, having become obsolete and has vanished away.

JLB do you know what makes up the OLD Covenant and the difference and purpose of God's LAW and the laws of Moses written in the book and why God commanded Moses to keep them separated in the Old Covenant?

God's LAW is not abolished at the cross it is our SINS and the Mosaic laws for remission of SIN that pointed to Jesus that where nailed to the cross. It is the Mosaic laws for remission of SIN that where shadow laws pointing to the Mesaiah that are fullfilled in Jesus not the 10 commandments. The 10 commandments are the standard in the Old and New Covenant and the Judgement to come.

God's LAWS are the KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS or GOOD and EVIL. They show us what SIN is and that we are all SINNERS in need of a Saviour so that all the world may become guilty toward God (Romans 3:19).

God's LAW shows us our need of Salvation. If there is no LAW there is no KNOWLEDGE of SIN. If there is no KNOWLEDGE of SIN there is no need of a Savior. IF there is no need of a Savior there is no Salavation. IF there is no salvation then one is LOST because they are still in their SINS. It is SIN that will keep all who practice it OUT of God's Kingdom.

Roman 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

......................................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

Hope this helps..

 

[JLB]

Interesting Chapter this one in Romans JLB. You use it as an excuse not to keep God's 4th commandment, as many have been taught.

Why would say such a thing about me?

Again, please hear me.

I believe we are to keep the commandments of God.

I don't believe we are to keep the Sabbath according to the law of Moses, in which we put people to death for breaking the Sabbath.

If you believe we are to put people to death for breaking the Sabbath then please post the scripture that teaches us this.

I believe we need to rest one day a week.

However this points us to the fulfillment of the Rest to come, when we live again with Christ for a thousand years.

The Seventh prophetic Day.

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:8

The Day of the Lord, when Jesus returns and removes all the wicked from the earth, and His people live with Him for a thousand years with glorified bodies that will not die anymore and shine like the sun.

That is the Day of rest the weekly Sabbath points us to.


For now, we need to rest one day during the week.


JLB

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi JLB,

Why would say such a thing about me? Again, please hear me. I believe we are to keep the commandments of God.

Did I have a misunderstanding? So you keep God's Sabbath?

Sorry if I had a misunderstanding. Many people try to use Romans 14 as an excuse not to keep God's 4th commandment when it is not even talking about God's LAW (10 commandments) or the Sabbath.

I don't believe we are to keep the Sabbath according to the law of Moses, in which we put people to death for breaking the Sabbath.If you believe we are to put people to death for breaking the Sabbath then please post the scripture that teaches us this.

Why would you say that when I agreed with you that we do not keep the CIVIL laws of Moses under the Old Covenant? (Please re-read post # 21 linked)

I believe we need to rest one day a week.

God says we are to rest the 7th Day of the Week....

Exodus 20
8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9, Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:<WHY?>
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

What day do you rest on?

However this points us to the fulfillment of the Rest to come, when we live again with Christ for a thousand years. The Seventh prophetic Day. But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8 The Day of the Lord, when Jesus returns and removes all the wicked from the earth, and His people live with Him for a thousand years with glorified bodies that will not die anymore and shine like the sun. That is the Day of rest the weekly Sabbath points us to.

For me, God's 4th commandment cannot be a Shadow of anything. WHY? Because it is part of the FINISHED WORK OF CREATION and NOT a part of the PLAN of SALVATION and the shadow laws of the Mosaic Covenant. This is why I asked you the questions earlier.

LB do you know what makes up the OLD Covenant and the difference and purpose of God's LAW and the laws of Moses written in the book and why God commanded Moses to keep them separated in the Old Covenant?

God's LAW is not abolished at the cross it is our SINS and the Mosaic laws for remission of SIN that pointed to Jesus that where nailed to the cross. It is the Mosaic laws for remission of SIN that where shadow laws pointing to the Mesaiah that are fullfilled in Jesus not the 10 commandments. The 10 commandments are the standard in the Old and New Covenant and the Judgement to come.

Let's have a look at the scriptures and the origin of God's Sabbath.......

Genesis 2
1, Thus the heavens and the earth WERE FINISHED, and all the host of them.
2, And ON THE SEVENTH DAY GOD ENDED HIS WORK which he had made; and he RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from ALL HIS WORK which he had made.
3, And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, and made it HOLY <the 7th day>: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Some points to note from the scriptures...............

v1 God FINISHED AND COMPLETED ALL HIS WORK IN RELATION TO CREATION and RESTED on the 7TH DAY
v2 God RESTED on the 7TH DAY
v3 God SET APART the 7TH DAY and made THE 7TH DAY a HOLY DAY
v2 The 7TH DAY is part of the FINISHED WORK of the CREATION WEEK

Now who did God make the 7th day a Holy day for? Is he making that day a Holy day for himself? Of course NOT God is already Holy. He has made the day for MANKIND as a HOLY DAY.

Let’s see what Jesus says…………

Mark 2
27, And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath

The Sabbath was made for WHO? The Sabbath was made for MAN

STRONGS Greek
MAN G444 ἄνθρωποςanthropos (an'-thrō-pos) n.
1. (literally) man†-visage (i.e. a man-faced being, a man who has visibly come of age).
2. (concretely, in Hebrew) a clay being (a classification of beings made in the image of God, who made them male and female).
3. (generically, in English) a human being.
4. (indefinitely) a certain man (i.e. someone).
[from G435 and ops “the countenance” (from G3700)]
KJV: certain, man
Root(s): G435, G3700

So the Sabbath was made for Human beings; clay beings (we are made out of the dust); male and female

So God made the 7th day of the week a HOLY day and blessed it for MANKIND this now ties in very nicely with Exodus……….

Exodus 20
8, Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why? Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God:

God says that His SABBATH is a specific day which is the 7TH DAY OF THE WEEK that he has made to be a HOLY DAY. Jesus says it was made Holy in the creation week for mankind. All scriptures connect and are in harmony. Genesis where God made the Day a HOLY DAY; God’s 4th commandment to His people that says to REMEMBER the Sabbath day to KEEP it a HOLY DAY as a reminder that we worship the only true God of creation and Jesus stating that the Sabbath was made for MANKIND (Human beings; male and female).

We have already show that God's LAWS (the 10 commandments) are FOREVER so cannot be a shadow of anything and the Mosaic laws for remission of SIN where shadow laws. Now let's bring the scriptures from the creation week and God's 7th DAY SABBATH commandment together and give you something else to think about from the creation week........

Q. Was the work of creation and the 7th Day SABBATH a part of a FINISHED WORK or an UNFINISHED WORK?
A. Gen 2:1-2 says that the God's creation and his REST is part of a FINISHED WORK; GOD COMPLETE ALL THE WORK OF CREATION

Q. Now was the FINISHED WORK OF THE CREATION WEEK BEFORE SIN and the fall of mankind or AFTER the fall of man?
A. Gen 3 SIN did not enter the WORLD until AFTER the FINISHED WORK of CREATION!

Q. NOW if God's SABBATH IS PART OF THE FINISHED WORK of CREATION how can it be a shadow if it is already FINISHED?
A. GOD'S SABBATH CANNOT BE A SHADOW OF ANYTHING BECAUSE IT IS PART OF A DIFFERENT WORK. It is part of the FINISHED WORK of creation BEFORE SIN. IT IS NOT PART OF THE PLAN OF SALVATION because it was made BEFORE SIN ENTERED the world. IT IS PART OF THE FINISHED WORK OF CREATION therefore it is impossible for it to be a Shadow for REMISSION OF SIN because there was NO SIN when it was made and given to mankind. So it cannot be a part of the plan of salvation or the Shadow Mosaic laws for remission of sin pointing to Jesus.

For now, we need to rest one day during the week.

God's 4th commandment says that it is the 7th day we are to rest on. Is this the day you keep Holy as God has asked?

..........................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

 

[JLB]

Did I have a misunderstanding? So you keep God's Sabbath?

Yes I rest one day a week.

Sorry if I had a misunderstanding. Many people try to use Romans 14 as an excuse not to keep God's 4th commandment when it is not even talking about God's LAW (10 commandments) or the Sabbath.

Romans 14 is not an excuse, its the word of God, that pertains to not only esteeming one day of the week, [the Sabbath] over another, but also deals with the law of Moses concerning food.

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.

14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. Romans 14:5-15


I just don't understand how it is, you think that keeping the Sabbath according to the law of Moses is done without putting to death those who violate.


Please explain.

Let's have a look at the scriptures and the origin of God's Sabbath.......

Genesis 2
1, Thus the heavens and the earth WERE FINISHED, and all the host of them.
2, And ON THE SEVENTH DAY GOD ENDED HIS WORK which he had made; and he RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from ALL HIS WORK which he had made.
3, And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, and made it HOLY <the 7th day>: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Some points to note from the scriptures...............

v1 God FINISHED AND COMPLETED ALL HIS WORK IN RELATION TO CREATION and RESTED on the 7TH DAY

2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Genesis 2:2-3

This is a prophetic blueprint of all of creation which points to the time when God will indeed rest from His work.

• “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”

16 For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him,because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” 18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:16-18

So we see that God will rest with His people at that appointed time.

Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. Hebrews 4:1

For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” Hebrews 4:3-7


Did you get that?

• “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’” although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

He said this referring to the children of Israel, in Psalm 95.

This was written well after Genesis 2, and points to a rest to come.


That rest, the True Sabbath or seventh prophetic day, or seven thousandth year, is what is being referred to.

We have been here about 6000 years from Adam.

• Each 1000 years being a prophetic "day".

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:8

The context is the Day of the Lord, when Jesus will remove all the enemies and give us the rest we are looking forward to.

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:8-9




JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Thats great Jim sounds like you are a real scholar.

Although, I must admit, I am having some trouble trying to understand your interpretation of the scriptures as they seem to contradict other scriptures in God's Word and you seem to be quite reluctant to answer my questions or only providing part answers for some reason I am not sure why, or do you want to address the posts and scriptures I send to you disagreeing with your interpretation of the scriptures.

How can you say the scripture does not say this or that when I provide scriptures to you that says the things you say they are not saying. As a scholar should you not at least try and address the posts and the scriptures shared with you and adress the questions asked of you?

Well that is how I thought a conversation goes anyways.

Now you ask me a question saying did I not read what you posted to me. Yet you can see I read what you posted and replied to what you posted section by section with questions and also supplied a rebuttal of your interpretation of the scriptures and adressed each section with a detailed reply from the scriptures showing why it is I do not agree with your interpreation of the scirptures.

I provided scriptures for each rebuttal but you ignore the scriprtures sent to you which seem to be saying the opposite of what you are claiming and just try and re-post the same scriptures.

Should you not in turn reply to the scriptures I have provided showing you why your interpretation is not correct?

Now, just ignoring all the scriptures posted along with all the questions will not make them magically go away because you do not wish to answer them or believe they exist. Only God's Wors is true my friend and we should believe and follow it.
.........................

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place. This is a tradition and teaching of man that has been handed down to the Protestant Churches by the Roman Catholic Church

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

IN times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word ofGod?

My Bible says in Colosians 2:16 "a sabbath day", not days.
What makes you so sure you are right since you base your whole premise on this?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

LoveGodsWord
Are you able to talk without speaking a thousand or more words at a time.
Or are you purposely trying to confuse people to make yourself look good.
The more I read your posts, the less I actually read, and the less I think you know anything, period.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi JBL, some comments for your consideration below

Yes I rest one day a week.

So I am confused with your answer does this mean you rest on God's Sabbath according to the 4th commandments?

Romans 14 is not an excuse, its the word of God, that pertains to not only esteeming one day of the week, [the Sabbath] over another, but also deals with the law of Moses concerning food. 5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.”
12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. Romans 14:5-15

Well that is NOT true at all JBL, it seems you have ignored all the scriptures in post # 22 (linked) that show that Romans 14 is not even talking about God's LAW or the 4th commandment. How can you say it is including God's 4th commandment when it is not even mentioned in the entire book of Romans especially when God's LAW is the standard of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS and the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil (Romans 3:20; 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4). Even the sections you highlight in Romans 14 says nothing about God's 4th commandment. You do realize that the time when Romans 14 was written there was no dispute regarding the Sabbath and Sunday? There was disputes however in regards to the annual Jewish holy days that were consistant with the other writings of Paul in Colossians and Ephesians 2. These were shadows under the Levitical laws pointing to the Messaih (Leviticus 23) and were shadows of things to come pointing to Jesus as out true Sacrifice. So once again where is God's 4th commandment mentioned in Romans 14? Where does it say in Romans 14 that God's Sabbath is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sudnay as a holy day? It simply does not.

1. The chapter is talking about a number of related topics
2. Overall it is talking about not juding those who are weak in the faith in relation to food connected to days or days dedicated to the Lord and that is all it is talking about.
3. Food connected to days in usually in relation to the annual festivals or fasting connected to weekly or Holy days unto the Lord (Lev 16:29. Num 29:7; Issaiah 58:5; Luke 18:11-12).
4. There is no mention of the Sabbath or God's 4th commandment in this chapter or the entire book of Romans.
5. Romans 14 is not talking about ABOLISHING ANY DAYS but only talking about judging others in relation to food or fasting connected to days dedicated to the LORD and food offered to idols.
6. The Chapter is consistant with all the other writing of Paul in relation to the jewish annual holy days fulfilled in Christ (eg, Colossains 2; Ephesians 2; Galatains 4:10; Hebrews 9:9-15; 10:1-17).
7. Paul's topics is summarised in v17; For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

It is very clear from reading the scriptures that this whole Chapter has nothing whatsoever at all to do with the 4th commandment which is to keep Holy the 7th day Sabbath

I just don't understand how it is, you think that keeping the Sabbath according to the law of Moses is done without putting to death those who violate.

Now why would you just say that again when I have told you two times already and outlined through the scriptures in the OLD Testament that the scripture you are referring to is the CIVIL law of Moses in relation to openly breaking God's LAW (10 commandments)? Please re-read post # 21 (linked) where it discusses your scripture in detail. If you do not understand it again tell me what it is you do not understand in the scriptures I have posted? What would help the discussion is the questions I have asked you earlier that you have not answered....

LB do you know what makes up the OLD Covenant and the difference and purpose of God's LAW and the laws of Moses written in the book and why God commanded Moses to keep them separated in the Old Covenant?

It is important to clearly understand the OLD Covenant before you can understand the NEW.

2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. Genesis 2:2-3 This is a prophetic blueprint of all of creation which points to the time when God will indeed rest from His work.

How can God's Sabbath be a prophetic blueprint when it is part of a FINISHED work (Genesis 2:1-3)? Already answered in post # 24 (linked)

“My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.
16 For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him,because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” 18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:16-18

The Jews had placed so many restrictions and on the Sabbath that it had become a burden to the people (context is Matt 12:2; see also Matt 12:10; Mark 2:24; 3:2-4 Luke 6:2; 7-9; 13:10-16 etc.) Then in Matt 12:10-12 Jesus goes on to say it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath! Jesus came to teach us how to keep the Sabbath and it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Mark 3:4; Luke 6:9) and is why Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath (Mark 2:27). This is why God’s Word says If anyone is knowingly and wilfully breaking any of the 10 commandments, including the 7th Day Sabbath you are deceiving yourself and not obeying or following God (James 2:8-12).

What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament……….

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts it is through love and it is love the fulfils God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10). If we knowingly break one of God’s commandments we commit sin (1 John 3:4). This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which Jesus made for us and commands us to keep as a holy day.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. Hebrews 4:1 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’” although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” Hebrews 4:3-7

Did you get that?

“So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’” although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

He said this referring to the children of Israel, in Psalm 95. This was written well after Genesis 2, and points to a rest to come. That rest, the True Sabbath or seventh prophetic day, or seven thousandth year, is what is being referred to. We have been here about 6000 years from Adam. Each 1000 years being a prophetic "day". 8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8 The context is the Day of the Lord, when Jesus will remove all the enemies and give us the rest we are looking forward to.

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:8-9
JLB

Hi JBL, I dont mind if you would like to discuss Hebrews 4 but for the reasons and scriptures already posted I do not believe that this is referring to some kind of prophetic Sabbath as already started God's Sabbath is a part of a FINISHED Work that has it's origin from Genesis 2:1-3 in the week of creation given to mankind BEFORE the fall (SIN) and it is a part of God's eternal LAW (10 commandments) that define SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS and not a part of the Shadow Mosaic laws written in the book of Moses.

Let's have a look at Hebrews 4............

HEBREWS 4
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Key Scripture points...............

* Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)
* The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbelief (v2)
* For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
* Speaking of the 7th Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
* God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
* Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
* There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
* Those that enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) cease from works as God did v10
* We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
* The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through keeping of a Sabbath or Sabbath observance. (I have provided Greek links below)

Hebrews 4:9 (NAS)
“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest G4520 to the people of God.”

The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)

Strong's Concordance 4520
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Strong's Greek 4520
σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

So let’s pull it all together...................

The context is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7th Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5). Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word. The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8). This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word. Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7th Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So you can see Jesus is not a Sabbath. The Sabbath is the 7th Day of the Week. Jesus is Lord of this Day because he is the creator of this day (Heb 4:4; Mark 2:28).

There is no scripture in all of God’s Word that says that Jesus is a Sabbath only that he is the Lord of the Sabbath and he made it for all of mankind and commands us to keep it as a holy day as a memorial of creation (Mark 2:27-28; Gen 2:1-3; Ex 20:8-11)
.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

 

[Jim Parker]

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God?

Paul's statement that we are not to judge anyone about a sabbath IS the word of God.
Deuteronomy stating that the Sabbath is a sign between ISRAEL and God IS God's word.

Thats great Jim sounds like you are a real scholar.

Sounds like you don't want to hear anything but what your Sabbatarian personal opinion.

Here's another Pauline teaching: (Titus 3:10) Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.

I'm done.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

My Bible says in Colosians 2:16 "a sabbath day", not days.
What makes you so sure you are right since you base your whole premise on this?

Hi Allen,

The permise is not based on the plural deinition of the Sabbaths or Sabbath days in Col 2:16. I haven't had the chance to post yet but I will start a thread on this latter when I get some time. It is based on many Old testament scriptures linked to New Testament scriptures.

But just out of interest in relation to Col 2:16 rendering the word Sabbath as plural.....

I do not know what bible version you are using but the GREEK renders the translation in Col 2:16 as plural meaning more then one Sabbath as the CONTEXT of the Chapter in in reference to the Ceremonial laws of Moses it is in reference to the annual festival Sabbaths (plural) there is more then one of them (Levitical 23)

Colossians 2:16-17 "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a
new moon or Sabbath days -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

The Greek word here is the plural, "sabbaths" [sabbaton (σαββατων)]. In itself that is not determinative. The plural in
the Hebrew language, which this Greek expression represents, is often used to show majestic or high regard for
something. The Creation Sabbath may be referred to in that way even though it is but one kind of Sabbath. But it is also
consistent with the fact that in the Levitical set of laws there are many different Sabbaths. The term "sabbaths" in this verse is surrounded by other examples of ritual laws all associated with the Levitical period prior to the coming of Christ eg. meat and drink offereings, New Moons, Festivals

The majority of Bibles translate the Greek translation of Colossians 2:16 for Sabbaths as plural?

(ACV) “new moon or Sabbaths,”
(Darby) “new moon, or sabbaths,”
(DRB) “new moon or of the sabbaths,”
(Geneva) “moone, or of the Sabbath dayes,”
(KJ2000) “moon, or of the sabbath days:”
(LONT) “new moon, or of sabbaths;”
(NET) “new moon, or Sabbath days -“
(NLT) “new-moon ceremonies or Sabbaths.”
(TMB) “new moon or the Sabbath days,”
(VW-Edition) “new moon or sabbaths,”
(WmsNT) “monthly feasts or sabbaths.”
(ALT) “new moon [festival] or of Sabbaths,”
(Bishops) “moone, or of the Sabboth [dayes]:”
(EMTV) “new moon or of sabbaths,”
(IAV NC) “New Moon, or of the Sabbath Days:”
(KJV21) “new moon or the Sabbath days,”
(MKJV) “new moon, or of the sabbaths.”
(NIRV) “New Moons and Sabbath days.”
(NRSV) “new moons, or sabbaths.”
(TS98) “new moon or Sabbaths -“
(WCNT) “new moon, or of sabbaths,”
(WORNT) “new-moon, or sabbaths;”
(BBE) “new moons or Sabbaths:”
(CAB) “new moon or of sabbaths,”
(GB) “moone, or of the Sabbath dayes,”
(KJV) “new moon, or of the sabbath days:”
(LITV) “new moon, or of sabbaths,”
(Murdock) “new moons, and sabbaths;”
(NKJV) “new moon or sabbaths,”
(RYLT-NT) “new moon, or of sabbaths,”
(Tyndale) “mone or of the sabboth dayes.”
(Webster) “new-moon, or of the sabbaths:”
(YLT) “new moon, or of sabbaths,”

This leaves only a minority of modern translations that don’t use plural for Colossians 2:16. But the big question is, do they mean “a weekly Sabbath day” or “a Ceremonial sabbath day” since they do not specifically say “The Sabbath” or the “weekly Sabbath”? (list below is not exhaustive or every translation)

(AMP) “New Moon or a Sabbath.”
(RSVA) “new moon or a sabbath.” (ASV) “new moon or a sabbath day:”
(NIV) “New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.”
(NASB) “new moon or a Sabbath day“

If you are using the Greek scriptures you will know that the Greek New Testament shows the declension for “sabbath” in Colossians 2:16 as N-GPN, which stands for “Noun-Genitive-Plural-Neuter,” that is, “sabbaths” or “sabbaths days.” This is how the majority of all bible translations use the word Sabbaths or Sabbath days (plural) in Colossians 2:16 which agrees with most bible commentaries showing the correct Greek translation of the scripture.

Will chat more latter on Col 2 in a new thread

God bless.

 

[Soul man]

Hello LoveGodsword I have a curiosity to how we handle scripture such as: Gal.3:10-13
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Many scriptures like these and others give a good argument to your case.
Beside the point a gentile was never under any such covenants as was the kingdom of Israel.
A chosen people set aside for God Himself, I'm trying to interpret what you are saying.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Paul's statement that we are not to judge anyone about a sabbath IS the word of God.
Deuteronomy stating that the Sabbath is a sign between ISRAEL and God IS God's word.

Sounds like you don't want to hear anything but what your Sabbatarian personal opinion.

Here's another Pauline teaching: (Titus 3:10) Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.

I'm done.

Hello Jim so nice to see you again,

If you have God's Word to share let's discuss it. God's Word is indeed personal to me but it is not my WORD but God's that he freely gives to all who hear. I love God's Word in deed. Where does it say in God's Word that God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? Please forgive me maybe I missed this scripture?

If you are not a part of God's Israel as outlined in the scriptures in the NEW Testamant then you are not a part of the NEW Covenant given to God's Israel who God's Word descrbes as those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word. (Hebrews 8:10-12)

Why is it divisive to share Gods' WORD? Is this what Jesus means when he says............

Matthew 10
34, Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35, For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36, And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37, He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38, And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Sin will keep all who practice it out of God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27). God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to a knowledge of the truth and be saved........

..............................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

Hope this helps..

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello Soul man,

So nice to meet you here. Thanks for the great post. I enjoyed reading the scriptures you posted I love every one of them.

Hello LoveGodsword I have a curiosity to how we handle scripture such as: Gal.3:10-13
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Many scriptures like these and others give a good argument to your case.
Beside the point a gentile was never under any such covenants as was the kingdom of Israel.
A chosen people set aside for God Himself, I'm trying to interpret what you are saying.

Now so there is no misunderstanding I believe everyone of the scritpures you posted and love them. Of course we are saved by grace through faith; and that not of ourselves: it is the gift of God and not of works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8).

I do NOT believe or have ever taught that we are saved by the works of the LAW.

It's never been about following the law its always been about following Christ by faith through love alone. Faith that works by love is what fulfills God's Law in those that walk in His Spirit (Romans 13:8-10).

Obedience is only the fruit of faith and a sign that someone is genuinely following God's Word (Matthew 7:17-27). If you seek obedience without faith you will never attain it because this is the gift of God written on the heart (Ephesians 2:8; Galatians 2:16; Hebrews 8:10-12).

But if you believe God's Word, your faith will be counted for righteousness in God's eyes (Romans 1:17; Philippians 3:9). If your faith does not have the fruit of obedience (God's work in you) than you are still in your sins and have not seen him or known him and your faith is dead (Philippians 2:13; Hebrews 10:26-27; 1 John 2:2-4; 1 John 3:3-9).

What we are talking about is SIN and how SIN will keep all who practice it OUT of God's Kingdom. If you profess to have saving FAITH but your faith does NOT have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE to God's Word then your faith is DEAD and you are still in your SINS and do not KNOW him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE all as he first LOVED us. LOVE is the fulfilling of the LAW in those who walk by FAITH in God's Spirit. (James 2:18; 20; 26; Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 3:3-10; James 2:8-12; Matthew 7:13-20)

There are only two classes of people spoken about in God's Word. These are those that follow God by Faith through LOVE and those that do not. Those that do NOT BELIEVE have rejected His Word. Those that have NOT Heard the WORD are ignorant and God winks at. Those that have heard the Word however and have rejected God's Word are UNBELIEVERS and unless they repent and confess their SINS they WILL NOT Enter into God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27)

....................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

Hope this helps..

 

[Jim Parker]

If you have God's Word to share let's discuss it.

I gave you God's word.
Apparently you ignored it.
That is not how one "discusses" anything.

I can also give you the testimony of the primitive Church. (The generation taught by the apostles and the one after that)

The Teaching of the Apostles. (1st Century)
The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the Holy Scriptures, and the oblation (Eucharist): because on the first day of the week our Lord rose from the place of the dead and on the first day of the week He arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week He ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week He will appear at last with the angels of heaven.

Justin Martyr : The First Apology of Justin C.100-162 AD
But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples,…

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians C. 50-117 AD, Bishop of Antioch
Chapter IX.—Let Us Live with Christ.
If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day ("The Lord's Day" is Sunday.)

From:
Eusebius – The Church History: A New Translation with Commentary, Paul L. Maier, Kregel Publications, 1999
Book 1, The person and work of Christ; The antiquity of the faith
“They had no interest in bodily circumcision, nor do we; nor for keeping the Sabbath, nor do we; nor for abstaining from some foods or other distinctions that Moses first delivered to their successors to be observed as symbols, nor do such things concern Christians now.” P.31

 

[JLB]

Hi JBL, I dont mind if you would like to discuss Hebrews 4 but for the reasons and scriptures already posted I do not believe that this is referring to some kind of prophetic Sabbath as already started God's Sabbath is a part of a FINISHED Work that has it's origin from Genesis 2:1-3 in the week of creation given to mankind BEFORE the fall (SIN) and it is a part of God's eternal LAW (10 commandments) that define SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS and not a part of the Shadow Mosaic laws written in the book of Moses.

Let's have a look at Hebrews 4............

HEBREWS 4
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Key Scripture points...............

* Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)
* The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbelief (v2)
* For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
* Speaking of the 7th Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
* God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7th Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
* Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
* There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
* Those that enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) cease from works as God did v10
* We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
* The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through keeping of a Sabbath or Sabbath observance. (I have provided Greek links below)

Hebrews 4:9 (NAS)
“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest G4520 to the people of God.”

The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)

Strong's Concordance 4520
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Strong's Greek 4520
σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

So let’s pull it all together...................

The context is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7th Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5). Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word. The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8). This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word. Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7th Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So you can see Jesus is not a Sabbath. The Sabbath is the 7th Day of the Week. Jesus is Lord of this Day because he is the creator of this day (Heb 4:4; Mark 2:28).

There is no scripture in all of God’s Word that says that Jesus is a Sabbath only that he is the Lord of the Sabbath and he made it for all of mankind and commands us to keep it as a holy day as a memorial of creation (Mark 2:27-28; Gen 2:1-3; Ex 20:8-11)
.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Yes Hebrews 4 teaches us of the rest to come, which is future.

Now we have the weekly Sabbath which is Saturday, the 7th Day that points us to this rest.

The question remains.

Do you keep the Sabbath according to the law of Moses, whereby you must put to death those who violate the Sabbath requirement?


JLB

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I gave you God's word.
Apparently you ignored it.

Hello Jim,

Well that is not true at all.

I replied to every part of your posts section by section with scripture that you have chosen not to responded to .

How have I ignored your posts and scriptures if I have responded to all of them using God's Word?

If you do not respond to my posts, scriptures and questions is that what you mean by ignoring?

.......................

Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes Hebrews 4 teaches us of the rest to come, which is future.
Now we have the weekly Sabbath which is Saturday, the 7th Day that points us to this rest. The question remains. Do you keep the Sabbath according to the law of Moses, whereby you must put to death those who violate the Sabbath requirement?
JLB

Hi JBL seems you are just repeating the same things now.

We may have to agree to disagree. As I do not believe the scriptures support your view and I have demonstred why I do not believe as you do by sharing God's Word.

Hebrews 4 is talking about God's people in the wilderness and how they did not enter into God's REST (Sabbath) because of their UNBELIEF and DISOBEDIENCE.

This is the same warning for all of us today. If we KNOWINGLY break God's commandments there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of judgment to come. Already covered in post # 29 linked here in more detial with scripture support.

You seem to have the CIVIL laws of Moses mixed up with the OLD and NEW Covenants, thinking this only applies to the 4th commandment when I have shown you through God's Word that the CIVIL laws death penalty also included most of the othe 10 commandments. We are in the NEW Covenant now and not under the CIVIL laws of Israel. Scriptures support already posted in post # 21 linked here

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

Hope this helps..

 

[Jim Parker]

Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it.

Gods word, at Acts 15, stated that Gentiles were not required to be circumcised and keep the Law.
BELIEVE that and FOLLOW that and knock off the sabbatarian stuff.
9) Do not promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity. (ToS 2.2)
Sabbatarianism is NOT historic Christianity.
The only believers who kept the Law were the original JEWISH believers in Jerusalem.
GENTILE believers at Antioch were called "Christians". The Apostles and Elders of Jerusalem told them they were NOT to try to keep the law.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello Jim,

Thanks for your post. Some comments for your consideration below....

Gods word, at Acts 15, stated that Gentiles were not required to be circumcised and keep the Law.BELIEVE that and FOLLOW that and knock off the sabbatarian stuff.

This is why I asked you earlier did you know what the purpose of God's LAW (10 commandments) was and the purpose of the Mosaic laws for remsission of sins under the Old Covenant. If you do not understand the Old Covenant how can you understand what the NEW Covenant is?

Acts 15 is in reference to.... circumcision as a means of Salvation under the law of Moses written in the book

v1, And certain men which came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved <The controversy is that if you are not circumcised after the law of Moses you cannot be saved>.

Acts 15 has no reference in relation to Gods' LAW (10 commandments) it is referring to the Mosaic law written in the book of the law of Moses.

As mentioned above already the Mosaic laws (not God's Law; 10 commandments) that were the cure for sin in the Old Covenant pointing to Jesus have been done away. They were shadows that pointed to Jesus and were fulfilled at the cross. For example with circumcision...........................

Romans 2
28, For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29, But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.Now we have shown above already that the CONTEXT of Acts 15 is referring to CIRCUMCISSION as a REQUIREMENT for SALVATION. Circumcision is a requirement under the law of Moses. In fact God’s LAW is not mentioned except for Idolatry as a requirement for the new Gentile converts. WHY? Because Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath day v21

This chapter has nothing to do with Gentiles not obeying God’s LAW (10 commandments) it is about CIRCUMCSION in the Mosaic law being a REQUIREMENT for SALVATION v1-5

Your interpretation to the above is that because none of God's Law (10 commandments) are mentioned that the Gentiles do not need to follow them right?

So Jim, if you follow your view through to its logical conclusion, Gentile believers can go kill, steal, covet murder and break all of God’s commandments as long as they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood v20. I am sure you do not believe this, do you Jim? God’s WORD certainly does not teach this as it says those who are living a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because those who are practicing SIN have rejected the GIFT of God’s dear son (Hebrews 10:26-27).

If you continue you BELIEVE the above in relation to Acts 15 by all means please reconcile your beliefs with ALL the scriptures presented in page 1 and 2 of the OP here which seems to disagree with what you are saying. You post above has been clearly adressed in post # 5 linked with scripture.