Mungo
Member
We are saved by Jesus when we are baptised
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Jesus: Our Substitute and Representative
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Mungo
Member
Robert Pate
Member
What you are really saying is that the life, death and resurrection of Jesus was not sufficient to save us and that we need to do something more to save us. Which also means that you don't have faith in Christ and his Gospel.
Mungo
Member
As I have said before (several times) the life, death and resurrection of Jesus was sufficient to save us.
But as I have also said before (several times) - as you yourself pointed, out it has to be received.
And as I have said before (several times) it is received in baptism.
Robert Pate
Member
Hogwash! Everything in the New Testament is received by faith. You are trying to save yourself.
Mungo
Member
But not by faith alone.
Nowhere is scripture does it say we are saved by faith alone.
Robert Pate
Member
It doesn't have to. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. If he did, he would be a sinner. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ; we are accepted only in him and because of him. Catholicism tries to do in the flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ.
Mungo
Member
Believing is a work and God accepts that.
Robert Pate
Member
That is what you have been taught by the Catholic church. Even if believing was a work, which it is not, it is not what saves us. What saves us is the doing and the dying of Jesus, plus nothing. You believe that it is plus something, which means that you don't believe the Gospel.
Paul said to the Galatians, "Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.
The Holy Spirit is only given to those that hear and believe the Gospel, you don't believe or have confidence that Jesus did it all, which means that you are an unbeliever in the Gospel and are void of the Holy Spirit.
Mungo
Member
Believing is a work as I have already shown in one of your other threads on the topic.
work
n noun
1 activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a result.
Concise Oxford English Dictionary
intransitive verb
to exert oneself physically or mentally especially in sustained effort for a purpose or under compulsion or necessity
Noun
c : sustained physical or mental effort to overcome obstacles and achieve an objective or result Merriam Webster Dictionary
Did you notice that Paul says "works of the law" not just any works.
Your interpolation (because you did something) does not match what Paul wrote.
I believe Jesus.
He said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved".
Do you believe him?
Robert Pate
Member
That is a works salvation that the Bible condemns.
Mungo
Member
No it isn't.
Robert Pate
Member
If salvation was by what we do or by what we have become, then Jesus lived and died in vain, and we are all still in our sins.
Mungo
Member
In your personal opinion.
Robert Pate
Member
No, It was Paul's opinion,
"For by grace (God's goodness) are you saved through faith; and not that of yourselves: it is the gift of God" Ephesians 2:8.
A gift cannot be earned or deserved, otherwise it would not be free gift.
Mungo
Member
No it wasn't Paul's opinion.
It was your misinterpretation of what Paul wrote.
I agree it cannot be earned but whether it is deserved or not depnds on your definition of deserved.
Robert Pate
Member
Most Catholics including yourself, believe that they deserve to be saved because of their works. This is why many will say, "Lord, Lord, didn't I ?" Matthew 7:21-23.
"Now to him that does works is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" Romans 4:5.
Mungo
Member
As I said, and you failed to respond to, I agree it cannot be earned but whether it is deserved or not depends on your definition of deserved.
And as I have pointed out before, believing is a work.
And, as I have pointed out before, your error lies in your understanding of what Paul means by work.
Robert Pate
Member
WORKS: Any religious thing that you do. Faith and believing is not a work because it requires no effort. Look up the word "work" in your dictionary. Work requires effort. No one has to work to believe in Jesus, it is all about accepting, not working.
Mungo
Member
I gave you dictionary definitions of work.
work
n noun
1 activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a result.
Concise Oxford English Dictionary
intransitive verb
to exert oneself physically or mentally especially in sustained effort for a purpose or under compulsion or necessity
Noun
c : sustained physical or mental effort to overcome obstacles and achieve an objective or result Merriam Webster Dictionary
Believing is a work.
And, as I have pointed out before, your error lies in your understanding of what Paul means by work.
As I said, and you failed to respond to, I agree it [a gift] cannot be earned but whether it is deserved or not depends on your definition of deserved.