Jesus supports Gay rights

[SputnikBoy]

Re: Statan

Nice to know that you are the gatekeeper to heaven and hell. Tell me, which one am I going to enter oh infallible one?

And, Solo, I actually am curious as to what relevance my sexual preference had. Sorry if it wasn't quite clear as a true question. I promote and support gay rights even though I'm straight just as I promote and support civil rights though, I'm white and believe strongly in feminism, even though I'm a male. What does this matter?

Well, these things matter to Solo and it means that you're going to get a bashing from him ... ;-) But don't let that get you down.

Sorry about the mispro on the spelling of your name overleaf, by the way. I somehow had it in my mind that it was 'monica' and I ran with it. Silly me. :smt120

 

[Jon-Marc]

The first person to make a decision to sin was Lucifer when he said "I will" five times and ended with, "I will be like the Most High." Mankind followed his example and have been choosing to do evil ever since. Yes, we have the ability to choose to do evil or good, and unfortunately many choose evil. God created one man and one woman. He did not creat two men or two women. Mankind can justify in his mind any sin that he wants, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still sin and condemned by God.

 

[SputnikBoy]

The first person to make a decision to sin was Lucifer when he said "I will" five times and ended with, "I will be like the Most High." Mankind followed his example and have been choosing to do evil ever since. Yes, we have the ability to choose to do evil or good, and unfortunately many choose evil. God created one man and one woman. He did not creat two men or two women. Mankind can justify in his mind any sin that he wants, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still sin and condemned by God.

Do any realize that one's sexual orientation CANNOT and WILL NOT be changed merely by reading texts from the Bible ...? Do any realize that 'abnormalities' such as blindness, deafness, lameness, etc. etc. CANNOT and WILL NOT be changed merely by reading texts from the Bible? Do any realize that there are ACTUALLY groups of Christians who DESPISE and see others that have the above-mentioned afflictions as being evil and therefore lost?

What about left-handedness? This is not normal. What about barrenness in a female? This is not normal. She was created to produce off-spring, to go forth and multiply. What about those born with webbed feet, six toes, unsightly birthmarks and other unmentionable defects that require surgery before one can continue to live? These things are not normal. Did these human beings put in a special request to God for these abnormalities? Of course they didn't. They were born with them. So too, I believe, were many people born with sexual orientations toward the same gender that are not culturally accepted as 'normal'. But is IS 'normal' for them. Obviously, I can't speak for everyone who claims to be homosexual.

I'm convinced that an overwhelming number of Christians today worship their Bibles (make an idol out of it) more than they do Jesus Christ. I really do! Be that as it may, as mentioned previously, Jesus said NOT A WORD about homosexuality. Since homosexuals are the favorite whipping people of present-day Christians, how come Jesus didn't even HINT at the idea that homosexuality would one day 'change life as we know it'?

I don't know that Jesus supports gay rights but I WOULD like someone to point me to a scripture where Jesus even addresses this issue.

 

[Oscar3]

a HOMOSEXUAL is a person who is attracted sexually to members of his or her own sex. Homosexual behavior is prohibited in Scripture (Lev.:20:13) and was a major cause of the divine judgment against Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 19:45, 12-13). The apostle Paul listed homosexuals among the unrighteous who would not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor.:6:9), and declared that Gods wrath stands against such behavior, whether practiced by men or women (Rom. 1:26-27).
Now, sputnick. if this was normal behaviour, why would Paul say this? Why would God have it put in the Law? Remember that GOD is a part of the GOD head that includes the Holy Spirit and JESUS.....

Hey, This is pretty good. I think I will give myself a pat on the back :-D

 

[moniker]

Leviticus damns me for eating a cheeseburger, bacon, and shrimp. As well as for wearing my coat as it is an alpaca/polyester blend. Should we outlaw the shrimping industry and place stricter regulations on our textile industry?

Soddom and Gamorrah was destroyed because there was not but one family in the whole of the village who lived an upstanding life. Not because the villagers wanted to rape the two male angels sent to the town rather than the little girls Lot was willing to sacrifice. Do you truly believe that man is so inherently evil that, given choices rather than being restricted by the law, he would always choose wickedness? I have to say I'm a touch misanthropic but even I have some degree of optimism towards my fellows.

I'm not going to touch Saul of Tarsus.

 

[Solo]

"One of the most common arguments used by pro-gay theologians, Dallas said, is that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. Dallas said that argument can be countered by pointing to Matthew 19:5-9, where Christ condemns adultery and defines marriage as being between one man and one woman." http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=17633

4 And he <JESUS> answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Matthew 19:4-9

 

[jgredline]

"One of the most common arguments used by pro-gay theologians, Dallas said, is that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. Dallas said that argument can be countered by pointing to Matthew 19:5-9, where Christ condemns adultery and defines marriage as being between one man and one woman." http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=17633

4 And he <JESUS> answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Matthew 19:4-9

Thanks Solo
I never thought of that, but duuu, it makes 100% sense

 

[Lewis]

People use to say that Jesus was against interracial marriage as well. People re-interpret their Bible over time.

There is no such thing as another race.

 

[D46]

There is no such thing as another race.

Sure there is Lewis-there's one coming on at 3:00 today!! :-D Sorry, the devil made me say that.

Did God make Adam and Eve Jewish? If so, then we ALL have Jewish blood flowing in our veins. That should set some on fire.

 

[SputnikBoy]

"One of the most common arguments used by pro-gay theologians, Dallas said, is that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. Dallas said that argument can be countered by pointing to Matthew 19:5-9, where Christ condemns adultery and defines marriage as being between one man and one woman." http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=17633

4 And he <JESUS> answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Matthew 19:4-9

NOWHERE does this scripture address one's sexual orientation, whether it be heterosexual or homosexual. Jesus was SILENT on an issue that has become the MAJOR focal-point of present-day Christianity. The vilification of homosexuals is a modern and man-made concept. Jesus never commanded Christians to vilify ANYONE.

 

[jgredline]

"One of the most common arguments used by pro-gay theologians, Dallas said, is that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. Dallas said that argument can be countered by pointing to Matthew 19:5-9, where Christ condemns adultery and defines marriage as being between one man and one woman." http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=17633

4 And he <JESUS> answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put
away doth commit adultery. Matthew 19:4-9

Solo
I have been thinking of this article. Its pretty good peice. I am sure that people that support this particular sin will have a real problem with it.
Some thoughts on this....

Modern society has unleashed an unprecedented onslaught against the family. Most of the major controversial issues in the news todayâ€â€such as homosexuality, abortion, feminism, divorce, youth gangs, and so onâ€â€are direct attacks against the family. People’s families no longer are where their strongest loyalties lie. Few families function as units. This fragmentation of the family has undermined morality and stability throughout all of society.
The church cannot tolerate or accommodate this devastation. It must confront and correct, then train its families. Strong families are the church’s backbone. And strong families build strong individuals. We will pay a high price if we don’t make the family a priority. That means we must help our people develop solid marriages and sturdy families by teaching husbands to love and lead their wives (Eph. 5:25), wives to submit to their husbands (5:22), children to obey their parents (6:1), and parents not to exasperate their children but to nurture them in the Lord (6:4).

Solo
I am guessing that God forgot the verses that say. Husbands love your husbands, Wives submit to your wives. As for the children, well, God has a real problem here because there is no children.. You know. God must have forgotten to include 2 or three epistles or perhaps there is a 5th Gospel..

One of the reasons Adam and Eve (NOT ADAM AND STEVE)were created was to fill the earth. Genesis 1:27–28 says, “Male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth.’†Here we see God’s perfect plan for marriage and procreation. From the beginning, God’s design was for permanent monogamous relationships between men and women. Genesis 2:24 makes this plain: “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.â€Â
The evolutionary lie has brought even this under attack, as society now seeks to justify and legitimize fornication, easy divorce, homosexual relationships, and other perversions that undermine the sanctity and uniqueness of the marriage relationship.
In the study of creation, we can seen throughout the plant and animal kingdoms that God produced all living species to procreate. But with the human race this takes on an especially sacred meaning. Keep in mind that of all earthly creatures, only man is created in the image of Godâ€â€and the very essence of that image is the ability to have relationships. The marriage relationship is here established as the first and most intimate of all relationships between humans. The two “become one flesh,†uniting in a bond that is designed to supersede every other relationship, no matter how close (“a man shall leave his father and motherâ€Â). The bond between husband and wife is also designed to be lasting, unbreakable, and inexpressibly intimate (“a man shall â₦be joined to his wife, and they shall become one fleshâ€Â). This would be pretty hard to do between two men or two women..........

:-?

 

[Solo]

jg,
You are so correct in your assessment. Many, many are being deluded by the doctrines of devils today, just as the scriptures teach. Many will have to fall from sound doctrines, and the son of perdition will be revealed prior to the return of Jesus.

• 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

Many will, and even now say, that Jesus has already come and that we are living in the millenial reign of Christ. What a sad commentary of mankind.

It is also quite interesting that those who claim to be Christians cannot walk as Christ Jesus walked. Jesus taught against adultery, and yet living a life of fornication with the same or opposite sex is an act against His teachings. Jesus taught that marriage is between a man and a woman, and that marriage was instituted by God, and yet there are those who are too foolish to understand this. Jesus also teaches that man should live by every word from the mouth of God, not opinions and traditions and false teachings of men. The reason that this forum and Bible teaching churches adhere to a statement of faith on doctrinal issues is so that the fools that do not believe can not teach garbage to those who are growing in life to become believers.

Fools will never understand the word of God. This is written in the scriptures by Holy men that were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Don't get mad at me, get mad at God.

It is as sport to a fool to do mischief: but a man of understanding hath wisdom. Proverbs 10:23

Wherefore is there a price in the hand of a fool to get wisdom, seeing he hath no heart to it? Proverbs 17:16

Wisdom is before him that hath understanding; but the eyes of a fool are in the ends of the earth. Proverbs 17:24

Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. Proverbs 17:28

A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself. Proverbs 18:2

Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. Proverbs 23:9

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Proverbs 26:4

 

[christian_soldier]

Do any realize that one's sexual orientation CANNOT and WILL NOT be changed merely by reading texts from the Bible ...? Do any realize that 'abnormalities' such as blindness, deafness, lameness, etc. etc. CANNOT and WILL NOT be changed merely by reading texts from the Bible? Do any realize that there are ACTUALLY groups of Christians who DESPISE and see others that have the above-mentioned afflictions as being evil and therefore lost?

SputnikBoy, good choice of username, 'cause boy, you are WAY out there.

Seriously, though, you surely are not comparing homosexuality with blindness, etc??? I'd really like to see your source for info about Christian groups that despise blind, deaf or lame folks. Whoever THEY are need a talking to.

There is NO evidence that homosexuality has a genetic cause, i.e. an unavoidable birth disorder.

Homosexuality is just one more carnal sin. Uncontrolled and twisted lust of the flesh. The only reason it seems to get more attention than adultery or premarital sex, and a host of other sins is that no one really tries to justify these other sins, and many commit them and repent.

On the other hand, there are Gay Churches which blatantly maintain that it is both possible and proper to live a homosexual lifestyle, (clearly defined by God's Word as an abomination, many times) and do not repent and turn away from this sin.

Godless factions of American society have the audacity to force feed our children, in KINDERGARTEN and up, in our public schools, pro-homosexual lifestyle material.

The frog analogy given earlier is an apt one.

NOWHERE does this scripture address one's sexual orientation, whether it be heterosexual or homosexual. Jesus was SILENT on an issue that has become the MAJOR focal-point of present-day Christianity. The vilification of homosexuals is a modern and man-made concept. Jesus never commanded Christians to vilify ANYONE.

We are to be salt and light. Homosexuals are not vilified. You sound like we should just ignore them and, of course, on an individual basis, we can. And, we can choose to ignore all unsaved people.

BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT WE ARE COMMANDED TO DO!

We are, as followers of Jesus, to preach the GOOD NEWS of salvation to the lost world. It is a disservice to ANYONE who professes to be saved, yet who is unrepentant, to leave them to their own devices without at least attempting to make them understand the error and penalty of their thinking.

If a Brother or Sister in Christ is falling in their walk, we are to approach them in private and reproach them lovingly. Failing that, it should be brought to the attention of the fellowship to reach out to them. We are to encourage one another and we ALL need that.

Those who tell homosexuals that they are not in a state of sin are throwing stumbling blocks before them and helping to damn them to HELL. Like it or not, the stakes are that high.

Blessings.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Soldier on, Christian.

 

[christian_soldier]

Soldier on, Christian.

You've made an allegation.

Do any realize that one's sexual orientation CANNOT and WILL NOT be changed merely by reading texts from the Bible ...? Do any realize that 'abnormalities' such as blindness, deafness, lameness, etc. etc. CANNOT and WILL NOT be changed merely by reading texts from the Bible? Do any realize that there are ACTUALLY groups of Christians who DESPISE and see others that have the above-mentioned afflictions as being evil and therefore lost?

Please back it up with verifiable sources.

 

[Drew]

There is NO evidence that homosexuality has a genetic cause, i.e. an unavoidable birth disorder.

This may be true. But it is important to point out that the absence of evidence is not "evidence of absence". Even if the above claim is correct, it could turn out to be the case that evidence will be found to support the claim that sexual orientation is determined genetically.

 

[D46]

This may be true. But it is important to point out that the absence of evidence is not "evidence of absence". Even if the above claim is correct, it could turn out to be the case that evidence will be found to support the claim that sexual orientation is determined genetically.

It's a person's choice of lifestyle...may as well accept the facts. God didn't create people with a pre-determined mindset toward being homosexual. I'll never believe that as it's a lie from the arch enemy of mankind.

 

[Drew]

It's a person's choice of lifestyle...may as well accept the facts. God didn't create people with a pre-determined mindset toward being homosexual. I'll never believe that as it's a lie from the arch enemy of mankind.

Where is your evidence for this claim? You talk as if it has been established as "factual" that homosexuality is a "choice". I doubt that you will find support for your position in the Scriptures.

The important point is that even if the Scriptures speak of homosexaul behaviour as sinful, this does not mean that people have a choice regarding having homosexual desires or inclinations. I think it is pretty obvious that we have choice over behaviour, but I think that there is no evidence that sexual desires or inclinations are a matter of choice.

However, the possibility that a person can be born with an inclination to do "X" does not mean that doing "X" is not sinful.

I confess to a deeply ingrained desire to kick ladders out from under people. For the sake of argument, lets imagine that this is "programmed into me" before birth. I would never act on such an impulse, as I am able to successfully moderate my impulsive desires (in this case, anyway) with a knowledge of what is right and loving - and it would not be loving to kick a ladder out from under someone.

 

[Jon-Marc]

Everything we do is a choice. Otherwise, where is our free will? If a person is destined to be a drunk, drug addict, homosexual, child molester, rapist, thief, murderer (and the list goes on), then God can't possibly hold ANYONE responsible for ANYTHING since it wouldn't be their fault. God DOES hold us responsible for everything we say and do and for all our choices and decisions.

 

[jgredline]

Everything we do is a choice. Otherwise, where is our free will? If a person is destined to be a drunk, drug addict, homosexual, child molester, rapist, thief, murderer (and the list goes on), then God can't possibly hold ANYONE responsible for ANYTHING since it wouldn't be their fault. God DOES hold us responsible for everything we say and do and for all our choices and decisions.

This was exactly my thought...