Jesus supports Gay rights

[jgredline]

The abomination of desolation is coming soon
Can you believe this madness


Jesus supports gay rights, say S.African Anglicans

By Rebecca Harrison and Itumeleng Seakamela
Reuters
Tuesday, October 24, 2006; 12:59 PM

JOHANNESBURG (Reuters Life!) - When Anglican priest Jo Mdhlela preached his first sermon espousing equal rights for gays and lesbians, he was met with puzzled frowns by many in his conservative African congregation.

But despite opposition in his mostly black church near Johannesburg, Mdhlela hopes to persuade his flock that being Christian does not mean rejecting gays -- contrasting with most clergy on the continent, who believe homosexuality is sinful and un-African.

"Jesus is challenging churches," the green-robed cleric told his congregation in English, helped by an interpreter at his side who translated his message into the local Zulu and Sotho languages.

"Jesus is saying if you said apartheid was unjust then you must say laws discriminating against homosexual people are unjust."

South Africa's Anglican church has long nurtured a liberal tradition that sets it apart from its more conservative and mostly evangelical counterparts on the poorest continent, one bolstered by its opposition to white minority rule.

That split has been magnified by the debate over the role of gays and lesbians in the church -- an issue which threatens to split the worldwide Anglican church and has pitted those in developing countries against liberals in the West.

South Africa backs the official Anglican line that gay priests may be ordained as long as they remain celibate. But Archbishop Njongonkulu Ndungane has distanced himself from conservative African bishops who say being gay is wrong.

His famed predecessor Desmond Tutu said he was "ashamed to be Anglican" when the church rejected proposals to reform its stance on gay clergy in 1998, according to a new biography, and has compared homophobia to apartheid.

Compare that to comments by Lagos Archbishop Peter Akinola, Africa's leading opponent of gay clergy: "I personally think that this is an attack on the Church of God, a Satanic attack.

"I cannot think of how a man in his senses would be having a sexual relationship with another man. It is so unnatural, so unscriptural. Even in the world of animals, dogs, cows, lions, we don't hear of such things."

APARTHEID LEGACY

The difference in approach between South African Anglicans and their counterparts on the continent is in part explained by the history of Anglican missionaries in Africa.

The early Anglican missionaries to Nigeria and much of East Africa came from largely evangelical backgrounds and taught a more literal interpretation of the Bible. Some missionaries to South Africa came from another branch of the Anglican church, which has since taken a more liberal view of homosexuality.

South African Anglicans are a virtually lone liberal voice among Christians at home, with the country's Catholic church and most evangelicals firmly opposed to a bill which is set to make the country Africa's first to legalize same-sex marriage.

The Anglican church's role as a vociferous critic of apartheid under Tutu cemented its liberal credentials and focused its theology around issues of social justice rather than personal morality. It also forged strong links with U.S. Anglicans -- the global church's most liberal wing.

"The length and intensity of the struggle for liberation in South Africa forced theologians to very deeply think through fundamental issues," South African journalist John Allen, Tutu's biographer and former press secretary, told Reuters.

But not all Anglicans in Southern Africa subscribe to the liberal leanings of its leadership. Anglican Mainstream, a group that urges orthodox interpretation of scripture, says ties with the U.S. church are too strong and do not reflect the views of ordinary Anglicans in South Africa.

"Strong links (with the U.S. church) formed in the 1980s were good at the time but have tied us to them in an unhealthy way," said Anglican Mainstream spokesman Canon Dave Doveton. "At the grassroots we are very different from the Americans. We are an African church and we should be identifying with Africa."



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 40_pf.html :o

 

[chris overy]

perhaps they need to read leviticus 20:10-21, 1corinthians 6:9-10. and many others. i do not understand where this teaching has come from. other than what paul wrote in timothy 4:1-5 is very true.

 

[SputnikBoy]

perhaps they need to read leviticus 20:10-21, 1corinthians 6:9-10. and many others. i do not understand where this teaching has come from. other than what paul wrote in timothy 4:1-5 is very true.

EVERYONE needs to read their Bible. Few do ...properly. Every sin and every weakness and every human failing points TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US ...! Time to take stock of our own camp, fellers.

 

[Quath]

People use to say that Jesus was against interracial marriage as well. People re-interpret their Bible over time.

 

[SputnikBoy]

It isn't so much that for me. It's just that every time we single out a specific person for condemnation we become the example of "I'm glad I'm not a sinner like THAT person ..." Some Christians do this all the time as a hobby it would seem. I'm talking here about 'singling out' people for condemnation ...NOT the practice of offering advice, guidance and possible practical solutions to a problem when asked.

 

[chris overy]

well there are none of us without sin. therefor for us to condenm or come across condemning is not a good thing. the word of god states we are not to think of ourselves holier or better than anyone else. we are to hate the sin but love the sinner. unless they will not accept jesus. then we are to leave them alone and let them go about their deal. praying for them of course.

 

[penlost]

It isn't so much that for me. It's just that every time we single out a specific person for condemnation we become the example of "I'm glad I'm not a sinner like THAT person ..." Some Christians do this all the time as a hobby it would seem. I'm talking here about 'singling out' people for condemnation ...NOT the practice of offering advice, guidance and possible practical solutions to a problem when asked.

Totaly agree with you there. There is to much 'frowning' upon and judgement from churches and leaders today. I am sure Jesus would want us to make a difference not sit back and shake our heads when people do wrong.

 

[stitchy]

Agreed. I may be a fairly new Christian, but I was taught that God's will (and what Jesus preached) was peace and harmony among everyone.

 

[Solo]

EVERYONE needs to read their Bible. Few do ...properly. Every sin and every weakness and every human failing points TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US ...! Time to take stock of our own camp, fellers.

We do! You don't?!

 

[Solo]

Agreed. I may be a fairly new Christian, but I was taught that God's will (and what Jesus preached) was peace and harmony among everyone.

Jesus said the following:

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. Matthew 10:34-38

 

[Solo]

Totaly agree with you there. There is to much 'frowning' upon and judgement from churches and leaders today. I am sure Jesus would want us to make a difference not sit back and shake our heads when people do wrong.

Here is what Paul taught under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:

1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 1 Corinthians 5:1-6

 

[peace4all]

but you can only imagine the diffrence between being Gay in America, and Being Gay in South Africa.

I fear that being Gay in South Africa, is more dangerous, and more likely to bring you pain and suffering, and possibly death, from the homophobic individuals.

After a group of people has had to suffer so unjustly by something as horrible as apertheid, they turn their cheek and learn what it really means to be hated and discriminated against, and they realize its unfair, they usually are not vengeful.

Blacks in america after being freed, didn't go on "master" killing spree's. Jews in europe didnt go on killing sprees after ww2. nor did the japaneese we put into camps during WW2.

Until you have felt the hate that some of these groups have felt towards them, there is no way you can say what they feel and do is wrong.

It's sad to say, But unless EVERYONE in the world at one point was enslaved and massivley discriminated against, no one will realize how horrible it is.

(note) not all people discriminated against turn out to follow the 99.99999999999999% majority. There were probably 1-2 "master" killings, and probably a handful of nazi slayings etc...

 

[destiny]

"Jesus Supports Gay Rights"

Jesus supports your right to choose between sin or righteousness, heaven and hell, deliverance or satan, taking up your cross or living for yourself.

Jesus is HOLY and SINLESS ... no unrepentant flesh (not mine, yours, or anybodies) will be able to stand before God at the judgment. NONE
Only those who have laid down their lives and taken up HIS life will make it into the kingdom. That means crucifying the lusts of the flesh.

NO, Jesus does not support sin, He is the remedy for sin!

 

[Solo]

Good post, Destiny. Great point!

 

[peace4all]

Jesus supports your right to choose between sin or righteousness, heaven and hell, deliverance or satan, taking up your cross or living for yourself.

exactly. So, why do we as people, refuse to allow people to sin? If any one is going to follow in the path of jesus, then they obviously will allow others to sin, but they will still not agree with it.

Jesus lets people Be gay. Jesus lets people choose homosexuality. Jesus might not approve, but he doesn't stop it, and neither should those who want to follow Jesus.

 

[jgredline]

Jesus supports your right to choose between sin or righteousness, heaven and hell, deliverance or satan, taking up your cross or living for yourself.

Jesus is HOLY and SINLESS ... no unrepentant flesh (not mine, yours, or anybodies) will be able to stand before God at the judgment. NONE
Only those who have laid down their lives and taken up HIS life will make it into the kingdom. That means crucifying the lusts of the flesh.

NO, Jesus does not support sin, He is the remedy for sin!

Nothing more needs to be said. AMEN!!!

 

[SputnikBoy]

NO, Jesus does not support sin, He is the remedy for sin!

No argument from me on that statement, destiny. My concern, however, is when a Christian goes out of his/way to focus on what THEY may perceive is a sin in another individual. Oftentimes Christians sit themselves on a lofty perch playing a self-righteous 'big brother' to others. I say that we leave all of the judging in God's hands.

 

[Solo]

exactly. So, why do we as people, refuse to allow people to sin? If any one is going to follow in the path of jesus, then they obviously will allow others to sin, but they will still not agree with it.

Jesus lets people Be gay. Jesus lets people choose homosexuality. Jesus might not approve, but he doesn't stop it, and neither should those who want to follow Jesus.

You are ignoring that Jesus preached repentance, belief in him, and following His sinless example. Jesus told folks to go and sin no more. He did not condone individuals to sin.

 

[peace4all]

You are ignoring that Jesus preached repentance, belief in him, and following His sinless example. Jesus told folks to go and sin no more. He did not condone individuals to sin.

yes, but he also met groups of people that did not want to listen, and he left them be. He didn't condone it, but he didn't force them to stop, or force others, to force them to stop.

 

[Solo]

yes, but he also met groups of people that did not want to listen, and he left them be. He didn't condone it, but he didn't force them to stop, or force others, to force them to stop.

Did the 10 commandments force anyone to stop? Did God's Law keep folks from murder, adultery, thieving, rebelliousness toward God, etc. etc.? Jesus was for the righteousness of God, and preached repentence, belief, and following him. Jesus said that he did not come to bring peace but to bring the sword.

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. Matthew 10:34-38