Bible Study Job - Book of Declaration and Transformation

[Deborah13]

The eternally saved children are added to the new children to arrive at twice the children. We will get there in the rest of chapter 42.

I have never heard this before but it makes sense to me. When man physically dies we do not cease to exist.

In showing Job nature; Job was condemned. All men are under condemnation by the revelation in nature. Does not Job support Romans 1:18 ? It does.

Yes, it does.

Satan used the friends of Job (just like he used the serpent to tempt Eve).

He also used Job's Eve, his wife, "curse God and die".

We will also know that Job always spoke truth (no matter how many times church tradition has said: Job was righteous in his own eyes). God declared Job righteous.

God declared Job the most righteous man on earth, he obeyed everything God told him to do. Job knew that he was not being punished by God for sin that he had willingly committed. But did he recognize that it was only by the mercy and grace of the Creator that he would be redeemed?

 

[Eugene]

eddif said: ↑
The eternally saved children are added to the new children to arrive at twice the children. We will get there in the rest of chapter 42.

I think you're saying that since everything else discernible such as material goods were doubled, and the children taken were not seen. They had just relocated to Abraham's bosom; the abode of the righteous dead and they plus the new children were counted as double. I know I continue to count my son who is in Christ's presence today as part of my family.

 

[eddif]

Part of verse 8 I commented on, but here it is again for another point or two,

Job 42:8
Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job has."
9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.

Here I have as many questions as answers.
It is hard to tell if this is:
a Pre-law
b Law
c Or foretelling of the kingdom message way off in New Testament times

The three friends offered up their own sacrifice and almost seemed to confess sins (folly). It is a hard call for me. Job did the prayer that was heard.

Jesus prayed for the disciples. Shadows and types sometimes take a lot of cud chewing to digest. It is almost a kingdom of priests situation.

Joseph, in Egypt, has parallels that do not quite fit, but sure remind you of the ministry of Jesus. Symbols are like political cartoons, the hint is there, but not the reality. Jesus is the reality / body that casts the shadow.

eddif

 

[Deborah13]

Job 42:8
Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accep

The number seven that most agree is the number of perfection or completion.
Burnt-offering - repentance
Job - high priest/mediator between them and God
Job - accepted by God for this position

It is hard to tell if this is:
a Pre-law
b Law
c Or foretelling of the kingdom message way off in New Testament times

I don't believe man was ever without commandments (law) from God. Just because it is not physically written down on stone tablets or paper does not mean that it doesn't exist. Especially God's people have never been lawless. But when they don't choose to obey Him they end up wandering in a wilderness, lost, confused, and bewildered.

 

[gr8grace3]

Part of verse 8 I commented on, but here it is again for another point or two,

Job 42:8
Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job has."
9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.

Here I have as many questions as answers.
It is hard to tell if this is:
a Pre-law
b Law
c Or foretelling of the kingdom message way off in New Testament times

The three friends offered up their own sacrifice and almost seemed to confess sins (folly). It is a hard call for me. Job did the prayer that was heard.

Jesus prayed for the disciples. Shadows and types sometimes take a lot of cud chewing to digest. It is almost a kingdom of priests situation.

Joseph, in Egypt, has parallels that do not quite fit, but sure remind you of the ministry of Jesus. Symbols are like political cartoons, the hint is there, but not the reality. Jesus is the reality / body that casts the shadow.

eddif

Interesting study. Going to have to follow this one. A few considerations:

1. I believe it is pre-Law. Job lived to be 140 years and that would put him on scene around the 400 years of slavery in Egypt concerning the life spans of people. And He was from Uz. Which would be Northern Arabia. So He was probably Arab. And terms of wealth was still considered your livestock.

2. Intercessory prayer. Eluding to the Priesthood of the believer and the ultimate Priesthood of Christ.

3. Rebound for believers. Job 42:6.
1 Cor 11:31~~New American Standard Bible
But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 1 John 1:9

Looking a little deeper in Job sounds good to me. I have a hard time picking up all the symbolism that is going on in this book. I tend to be more systematic.

 

[Deborah13]

I believe it is pre-Law.

I believe, Pre-Law - Law of Moses

 

[eddif]

Interesting study. Going to have to follow this one. A few considerations:

1. I believe it is pre-Law. Job lived to be 140 years and that would put him on scene around the 400 years of slavery in Egypt concerning the life spans of people. And He was from Uz. Which would be Northern Arabia. So He was probably Arab. And terms of wealth was still considered your livestock.

2. Intercessory prayer. Eluding to the Priesthood of the believer and the ultimate Priesthood of Christ.

3. Rebound for believers. Job 42:6.
1 Cor 11:31~~New American Standard Bible
But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 1 John 1:9

Looking a little deeper in Job sounds good to me. I have a hard time picking up all the symbolism that is going on in this book. I tend to be more systematic.

The different approaches give us a more complete picture. A minor case of macular degeneration, pushed me more into right brain thinking. I have become more like some people I thought I would never understand. The devil intended it for evil, but it worked to good.

You may approach parts as you feel led.

eddif

 

[gr8grace3]

I believe, Pre-Law - Law of Moses

And I am with you Deb. That law was always around. It just didn't Show up in writing until Moses. These believers were no idiots, and bumbling fools.......They knew. Job even knew about his resurrection body. God always had His establishment principles for believers and unbelievers alike.

 

[eddif]

LOL
Isaiah 6:8
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

When we get into the friends speeches, we will be challenged in some of our pet beliefs. I have not prepared to run rough shod over anyone. To open our eyes will absolutely amaze me. If you wish just go to the friends speeches:
1. Know they are wrong
2. Honestly see what they trust for righteousness (they will sound like the serpent speaking to Eve). Lie after lie.
3. Search Job's answer for the correct response to the sometimes subtitle false teaching the friend presented.
4. Do not be surprised when you hear modern teachings pouring out of the friends mouths.

Before that we will finish chapter 42, and hopefully, rapidly go through chapters 38-41.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Romans 5:13
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

To do this study, IMHO, one has to look at sin and redemption. The following is like a novel (it could be fictional but written to make you think).

Just sin and you may be thinking out of the left
brain (remember this is a novel and not really about left and right brains). Just redemption and you may be a right brain thinker.

On the one hand you have sin, but on the other hand you have redemption. How people think is (sometimes influenced by Lucifer / Saran / Devil). This is part of the book of Job. Remember the friends had to have a sacrifice and prayer because of their folly. Forgiveness did come (was the forgiveness from works or grace)? Let us see what the book of Job implies)

Romans 7.24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Sin on one hand; redemption the other. What does the book of Job imply? A bible study will let us look. A doctrinal position will force decisions and deny other views. Of course each of us is right and the other wrong. LOL.

Oh no. That eddif is one of those folks. Redneck philosophy should be banned. I agree. How do I get past myself? Maybe God will help.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Job 42:10
And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.
11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
13 He had also seven sons and three daughters.
14 And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch.
15 And in all the land were no women found sofair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.
16 After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, evenfour generations.
17 So Job died, being old and full of days.

When Job prayed for his friends, his life changed. Too much self centered prayer does not seem to help.

The end of Job's life sees twice the blessing. The time of Job would not allow seeing the abstract as much as we see today. In Revelation it gets into poor people (in the natural) being rich in the spirit. I love the letters to the churches (which is where this is discussed).

Good ole Job kept his house. While we see house here, there is much in this section to possibly lead one to think it might be that his body is the house that housed his soul. In the book we will see satan (behind all Job's problems) was not allowed to take Job's life.

God gave Job favor with everyone. God had not taken more than Job could bear. Job was open with the goods he had left and was inviting guests in. Job's giving soul was still there.

In verse 12 we find that the numbers of cattle are twice what he had at first, but he has the same number of children in verse 13. As we previously discussed, his physically dead children (children we will find out Job had prayed and offered sacrifices for) were safe in the care of God. Eternity future will reunite the spiritual union Job had with his children. Just because Job had children did not save them, but the spiritual care did. So Job will see 10 spiritual children (twice the original) at the final resurrection.

Now the children . The seven replacement sons have no names (?). The daughters are named and promoted to high station. To my redneck brain this seems very prophetic. Someone else can help with the name meanings.
Dove
Cinnamon
Eye salve box (my transliteration)

Dove - Holy Spirit (?)
Cinnamon - saints prayers with groans (?)
Eye salve - understanding (?)

Something is here: greater than three daughters. Your sons and daughters shall .....

eddif

 

[gr8grace3]

14 And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch.

Dove~~ I think Holy Spirit and the dove from Noahs Ark. A new beginning.

Fragrance~~Job was a mature believer. His "fragrance" was pleasing to the Lord.

Flashes of Glory(?)~~Job Glorified the Lord through his sufferings(Evidence testing of His faith.)

 

[gr8grace3]

The daughters getting an inheritance. That was a big statement on Jobs part. The inheritance always went to the Sons.

 

[Deborah13]

When Job prayed for his friends, his life changed. Too much self centered prayer does not seem to help.

2Co 2:7 so that, on the contrary, it is rather for you to forgive and to comfort, lest by over abundant sorrow such a one may be swallowed up;
Eph 4:32 and become one to another kind, tender-hearted, forgiving one another, according as also God in Christ did forgive you.

 

[eddif]

Job 38-41 are all types and shadows. Let me see how this goes.
Job 38:1
Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding
5 Who hath laid the measures there
of, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8. Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9. When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10. and prescribed limits for it and set bars and doors,
11. And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

Verse 1-2 mighty rushing wind of Pentecost brings wisdom

Verse 4 the earth has plate techtonics the New Jerusalem has the apostles as foundation wisdom. A reed measured the New Jerusalem.

Verse 6. The bedrock is God the Father (thou art the Christ the Son of the living God). The cornerstone is Christ

Verse 7 the birth of Christ Jesus

Verses 8-11. In heaven satan was forbid to take Job's life. The limits were set.

eddif

 

[eddif]

http://tep.uoregon.edu/resources/assessment/multiplechoicequestions/blooms.html

While I am not a fan of Blooms Taxonomy of Cognitive Levels (I much prefer getting it out of the bible), there is a level where God is aware of what goes on in Gentile culture. Isaiah 19 talking of Egypt my people just blows my spiritual Jewish mind.
When we read (of the wild ass, a few verses later, will we not connect with "he will be a wild ass of a man" ).

God is aware of the heaven where he lives; the affairs of men; and the lowest depravity of satan. The book of Job just opens the parallels to Job. I have no idea of the total comprehension Job had. Mankind sure fell in Adam, and few go to Job to see symbolism some what opened. I have no idea of why God has opened my redneck brain the little bit he has. Those who have problems with this can put this on ignore. Twenty years ago I would have rejected 90% of this study.

eddif

 

[Deborah13]

Verses 8-11. In heaven satan was forbid to take Job's life. The limits were set.

Job 38:8 And He shutteth up with doors the sea, In its coming forth, from the womb it goeth out.
Job 38:9 In My making a cloud its clothing, And thick darkness its swaddling band,
Job 38:10 And I measure over it My statute, And place bar and doors,
Job 38:11 And say, `Hitherto come thou, and add not, And a command is placed On the pride of thy billows.'

In these verses I see the Gospel message and the completed Church, that was swaddled in the darkness/obscurity of the scriptures and protected by the cloud/the Holy Spirit, until the birth and ministry of Christ, when it burst forth from the womb.
The Gospel message and His Church, given by the power of the Holy Spirit, holds the sea of the unGodly back.
Mat 16:18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

I think we are talking about the same thing, in different words.

 

[eddif]

The tempest of the sea is controlled by atmospheric conditions high in the sky. The Raging of satan is controlled by God above. There are several levels to symbolism. Ole eddif has to remember it too.
Jesus Christ is the reality that casts the shadows:
The reality in time (actions of redemption)
Slain from the foundation of world (the cosmos tells his life, suffering, death, resurrection, victory over evil, help for all).

In 38-41 we should see (IMHO):
God in control (behind the scene)
A description of evil and its desire to lead astray
The dragon is satan (we will get there shortly)
The concept of a peanality paid for sin
(Jesus suffered from head to foot)
The appreciation for redemption outside of us
The end being better than past- present
The fact truth is hidden at times (in symbols)
We see through a glass darkly
One day we will see face to face
Revelation of truth happens at times
Physical death is not permanent
God provides righteousness
Did I miss more than a million things?

The book of Job approaches many issues (hidden but there)

eddif

 

[eddif]

Job 38:12
Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?

12 Do we rule from the day of our birth? Now we know the day of born again is different from physical birth
13 our life should overcome evil
14 his actions should be imprinted in us
15 evil will perish
16 there are vents on the floor of ocean . Jonah had hope in despair ( boy that is a leap)
17 the natural man does not see everything (you must be born again)
18 we see through a glass darkly
19 discerning good and evil is a spiritual gift
20 you should be able to present eternal life (gospel to others). The prophets longed to see of the salvation of which they spoke.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Job 38:21
Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
24 By what way is the light parted, whichscattereth the east wind upon the earth?
25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;
26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no manis; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;
27 To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?
28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?
36 Who gives intuition to the heart and instinct to the mind?
37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,
38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?
39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions
40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?
41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.

I think I said rapidly Job 38-41, but so far I am dragging it out too much.

The above shows the diversity of provision, and the diversity of distribution.

Matthew 5:45
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Sleet and snow have nitrogen compounds that acts as a fertilizer. Great value.
Also Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Sometimes nature is used in punishment.

As a side note. Rain being mentioned, seems to place job after the flood (when rain started).
Genesis 2:6
Genesis 7:4

Heart and mind are separated. Romans 7:25
Clouds of wisdom reminds me of the brain (higher function and brain structure)

eddif