Bible Study Job - Book of Declaration and Transformation

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I believe I will give the group chapters 39-40.

Chapter 41 (IMHO), is the adversary Job faces.
Lucifer / satan is built so our human weapons are not effective against him. Jesus in his death defeated him.

Isaiah 14:11
Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, andthe noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will be ready when y'all say start chapter 1.

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[Deborah13]

I will be ready when y'all say start chapter 1.

Start chapter 1.

 

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Job 1:1
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
4. And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Evidently Job had heard what was right to do. Remember he repented and said ( I heard of thee with the hearing of the ear , but now my eyes see thee).
This is probably pre law as pointed out by a poster looking at Job's age.

Note the declaration of God is higher and better than the first mention of Job. IMHO We are all declared righteous rather than saved by works. Just hold on though.... In chapter 4 Eliphaz will help us determine if Job is saved by works (always keep in mind, lthe three friends do not speak the truth). Those who wish can read chapters 4-7 for the works righteousness . This will be the beauty of Job. (You can answer doctrinal questions in Job). I may need to cover Romans 1:32 and Romans 2:1 to be allowed to judge (eventually).

Notice satan questions Jobs motives. And just wait till the friends get through accusing Job. Jesus later faced Satan, demons, friends and religious leaders bringing up untruths.

Job acts as a priest before the law. Forgiveness of sins is mentioned also.

Feel free to look for and post comparisons and contrasts. Try and notice major points.

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I John 3:20
For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

Here is the work of Jesus overcoming the sin of human hearts. If Job's children are secure in the end of the book, the process of Messiah's / Jesus's sacrifice will be what saves. Ten children that will be preserved. Looking beyond the children Jesus was slain before the foundation of the earth . Looking beyond his children's possible sin Job symbolically offered The sacrifice of Jesus.

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Job was writing his children's remembrance in the book of life. Job knew the fallen nature of man. Preparation was made based on perhaps. Is your name written in the lambs book of life?. After this scripture a change will happen:
Ezekiel 18:2
What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not haveoccasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,
6++ the following verses set out the need for an individual to be judged as an individual.

The power behind the scene is the work of Jesus. After the law will come Jesus.

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The aspect of pre-law is interesting. Adam lost the garden, but mankind experienced a rather strange downward spiral. The comments of Jobs friends reflect the continuing influence / attempts of satan. There was a flood and babel to slow downfall. Seth is interesting. While I see modern heresy (or ancient if you prefer) we have to keep the entire story, of time, in mind to avoid establishing something that misses: law, prophets, wisdom, kingdom or eternity future happenings.

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Hebrews 1:1
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by hisSon, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Abraham was moved out of his land and moved to the west. Abraham paid tithes to Melchisedec, but IMHO Melchisedec was a shadow of Jesus and not the reality. If Abraham would have remained in the east then the wisdom of the east would have remained the basis of his faith.

Why mention this? The age of Job fits him possibly in roughly the time of Abraham. The wisdom of Job has a Melchisidec ring to it. Now possibly Abraham met him in the west.

Genesis 14:17
And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale.
18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Just as the law had a glory to it, Melchisidec has a ring to it, but Jesus is the ultimate reality. We do not need to over study shadows.

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Job 1:13-19
The loss on every side:
Sabeans killed servants and took livestock
Fire from heaven fell and burned up sheep and servants
Chaldeans took camels and slew servants
Great wind killed his children

Job 1:20
Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,
21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

The first accusation of satan proves to be false.

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Chapter 2
Satan will try the flesh. And. The wife.
Chapter 3
Isaiah 53 a man of sorrows
Chapter 4:1
Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,
2 If we assay to commune with thee, wilt thou be grieved? but who can withhold himself from speaking?
I Corinthians 14.1
3 Behold, thou hast instructed many, and thou hast strengthened the weak hands.
A works #1
4 Thy words have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast strengthened the feeble knees.
Works #2
5 But now it is come upon thee, and thou faintest; it toucheth thee, and thou art troubled.
False accusation #1
6 Is not this thy fear, thy confidence, thy hope, and the uprightness of thy ways?
False accusation #2. Or false doctrine of works righteousness.

Jobs correct answer:
In chapter 7 sort of hidden
Job 7:21
And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
Job realizes righteousness is apart from his sinfull self and at the resurrection the flesh will be no more (the wretched man will be delivered in an instant). In the meantime he will be in Abraham's bosom.

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[Deborah13]

Please slow down now, please. Give me a chance to catch up, I will do that tonight. Thanks. :neutral

 

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Please slow down now, please. Give me a chance to catch up, I will do that tonight. Thanks. :neutral

I got troubled at some of my posts, and decided to dive in where the deep water was (before I broke my neck).

Job 4:2 reference was supposed to be also
I Corinthians 14:32

The prophets can hold their tongues. Eliphaz is presenting lack of self control as a doctrine. There is no end to the heresy the friends present.

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Job 4:7
Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?
Another heresy
Jesus mainly perished for our sins.
8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
Wrong again.
King David noted
Psalms 73:3
For I was envious at the foolish, when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
4 For there are no bands in their death: but their strength is firm.
(It may be revised standard that says they are sleek and fat and have no problems ).
They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued like other men.

By verse 17 of psalms
17 Until I went into the sanctuary of God; thenunderstood I their end.
18 Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction.

The wicked seem to have it made but slide into hell.
King David was reminded of his sins by bad times and could repent . The rod and staff direct our path. God chastens whom he loves.
(Eliphaz the heresy factory).

Ok I will give it a break.

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[Brother Mike]

God gave Job favor with everyone. God had not taken more than Job could bear. Job was open with the goods he had left and was inviting guests in. Job's giving soul was still there.

Seemed like a awesome study until God gets the blame for the horrible murder of a mans children who obeyed him out of the revelation he had at the time.

What a shame. Does me no good now since God is no better than the thief that came to kill, steal and destroy.

Interesting till page 2.

 

[Deborah13]

I'm caught up and beyond in reading. I'll just keep listening for now.

 

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Job 4:9
By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
10 The roaring of the lion, and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teeth of the young lions, are broken.
11 The old lion perisheth for lack of prey, and the stout lion's whelps are scattered abroad.
12 Now a thing was secretly brought to me, and mine ear received a little thereof.
13 In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men,
14 Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake.
15 Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
16 It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice,
17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
18 Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:
19 How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?
20 They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it.
21 Doth not their excellency which is in them go away? they die, even without wisdom.

This gets a little more complex.

God does not put empty fear on us. The fear of The Lord has substance and direction. Notice this Eliphaz passage just leaves fear and destruction.

First the lions. I Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Our early life has a fallen old lion nature. We roar at people to devour them. When we are born again we seek to emulate the lion of the tribe of Judah. Praise of God is on our lips (we seek to proclaim the gospel to save). Our young teeth are broken (put to death our young devouring nature and save humanity in our changed nature).

Eliphaz has no wisdom to really present (when we get to Elihu this will hopefully expand). I like to have never understood about Elihu (I still have more to learn about Elihu). Get ready to help with Elihu Deborah13.

Eliphaz has men with no knowledge. I have heard over and over we can not understand just a tiny bit (this passage is a source of this heresy)

If any man lacks wisdom let him ask God. We ask we get. The mind of Christ becomes ours. The new man becomes real.
Daniel sought knowledge.
Daniel 8:15
And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

Read this whole passage in Daniel to see knowledge come with fear.

We know our nature will ultimately be changed
Daniel 7:17
These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

Our carnal nature is beastly. But the new birth can change if.
. Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

There is hope to be realized as faith. The inner man invites god inside. Revelation 3:20

Back to Daniel 8
Daniel 8:17
So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Eliphaz gave no wisdom, but empty fear (heresy)

Daniel shows wisdom comes with godly fear. If you can hear; Job helps with doctrine. We may look for knowledge or stay in traditions only.

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Acts 8:34
The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, was the prophet talking about himself or someone else?"
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

When you read Job speaking, one needs to hear prophecy about Jesus .

Job 6:1
But Job answered and said,
2 Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
3 For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.

Lamentations 3:13
He hath caused the arrows of his quiver to enter into my reins.

Like reinal disease. The whip of Christ's beating pierced his kidneys.

Job is speaking the anguish Jesus felt on the cruel cross:
His beard is plucked out
His bones are out of joint
His kidneys are pierced
He has a crown of thorns
His hands and feet are pierced with nails
He is naked
Other (?)

It is not about the suffering of Job. All job is about the suffering of Jesus and his prayers for all that need forgiveness. Job the type of the suffering servant.

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In post 48 I just grazed satan touching Job's flesh and the comment from his wife. I wanted to comment but just would / could not?

Sunday III John 1:2 was in the international lesson outline. About the time I left the class, the passage kind of turned into a panoramic scripture, with me in the center. Then today it became a pie where the raw crust parts blended with filling and uncooked meringue (doctrines blending and separating).

The wife's comment:
Job 2:9
Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine intercity? curse God, and die.

Job's comment:
Job 2:10
But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speakest. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil. In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

The older English is a little strange, but most translations say Job did not sin with his lips.

If you park III John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy
soul prosperth.

Next to
Receive good and evil.

Five group spokesmen leap to their feet and begin to expound on their groups doctrine.

Plain lost folks:
No telling.

Pre law folks:
Well God said Job did not sin with his lips, so we get good and evil.

Law folks: the law was added because of transgression (kind of dummed down bunch). You are under curses and blessings. We are talking about mind - will- emotions / soul.

Kingdom teaching:
Believe John the Baptist and Jesus who baptisms in Holy Spirit and fire.

Holy Spirit Baptised folks:
All things are brought into rembrance.

According to your baptism (where you are in mind will and emotions), that will effect your doctrine.

Those who will live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution (from several sources).
Many are the trials of the righteous, but The Lord delivers us out of them all.

Jesus was delivered out of death.
Paul was delivered out of physical and mental / spiritual thoughts and conditions (some were mind others were flesh)
We should be delivered out of much as a testimony (that many might seek forgiveness of sins)

As we grow our doctrine grows. I would have you prosper as your soul prospers. Which baptism are we Baptised into? Hebrews 11 and Hebrews 12 give us good reading to decide where our head is. Revelation 2:9-11 makes you think. What is prosperity in the OC may be different in the NC.

Now if I can just climb over the edge of the pie and go get wased in the blood of The Lamb. LOL

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[Deborah13]

Job the type of the suffering servant.

Holy cow, I never thought of Job as a type of the suffering servant. A type of Christ as a mediator, yes.

If you park III John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy
soul prosperth.

Next to
Receive good and evil.

The perfect general prayer to bless others. Sometimes suffering causes the soul to prosper but grace is there to see us through that and the reward is worth it.

What is prosperity in the OC may be different in the NC.

I think the reward in the OC is physical and in the NC it is spiritual. What do you think?

 

[eddif]

Holy cow, I never thought of Job as a type of the suffering servant. A type of Christ as a mediator, yes.


The perfect general prayer to bless others. Sometimes suffering causes the soul to prosper but grace is there to see us through that and the reward is worth it.

I think the reward in the OC is physical and in the NC it is spiritual. What do you think?

After I thought of the suffering servant, I did a web search. The search showed I was behind times. I try and read bible passages first and seek what it is saying, but I know full well I am just one of the living stones.

If you are not suffering, there is probably a lack of threat from you. Those who would will suffer persecution.

The fertilizer of persecution causes growth. Not obnoxious actions but true heart and spirit work He does.

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I think the reward in the OC is physical and in the NC it is spiritual. What do you think?

This study in Job is about the use of the physical creation to understand God .
The law is probably a physical construct, but...
Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

So I do think that the physical comes first, but I am having to struggle through how to not degrade the symbols too much. As mr symbolism ( small case letters ) I have to see shadows as shadows, but still acknowledge the spiritual content of the physical . I do see through welding glasses now.

I had a community preacher jump on me with spurs the other day. He was talking about the law was gone. I was trying to use the law as a teaching tool lawfully .

Those OC people had a chance to hear Jesus in Abraham's Bosom and accept the gospel just like we do. Physical was traded (?) for spiritual and I am one new man with them (?). Or perhaps they received just as much spirituality while in Abraham's Bosom as we posess (?)


The Hebrews 11 people were not complete without the Hebrews 12 folks . We do not need the physical to realize who we are. However. We do learn from them. I live in a physical body sold under sin. I have a born again experience that lets my mind serve the law of Christ.

I think I will stop. I used some scriptures and comments. Get off in the spirit and you give us some more. There are other folks reading this. Perhaps some of them will try a comment.

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In post #54 I quoted all the verses in chapter 4, but stopped about verse 17 (talking of empty fear).
Eiliphaz runs down basically all angels in verse 18. But. Not all angels were charged with wrong.

19 The foundation of man is not in the dust (evolution), but the start of man was from God saying let us make man in our image.

20 Man is not destroyed. God interceedes for man at all times. We do not die without wisdom. We do learn and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Eliphaz condemns what God has done. God declared Job righteous.

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