Bible Study John 1.1

[MisterE]

I agree that God cannot change. But, Jesus did change. That begs the question, how is Jesus God?

The answer lie in the definition of the word God

I was just reading the posts out here this morning and noticed you asked me a question. I am sorry for the oversight.

The only thing that changed with the Son was a physical body. It grew. His nature did not change. Depending on the situation, Jesus either functioned as human or God. When he FUNCTIONED as human, he did not change his nature. For example, Jesus said he didn't know the day or hour of his return, only the Father knows that. Why didn't Jesus know the hour of his return, because he was FUNCTIONING as human, but he was and is God, his nature never changed.

Just like when Jesus appeared in the Old Testament as a man. He was still God, he just manifested himself as a man. The Father could do that also.

 

[Butch5]

I was just reading the posts out here this morning and noticed you asked me a question. I am sorry for the oversight.

The only thing that changed with the Son was a physical body. It grew. His nature did not change. Depending on the situation, Jesus either functioned as human or God. When he FUNCTIONED as human, he did not change his nature. For example, Jesus said he didn't know the day or hour of his return, only the Father knows that. Why didn't Jesus know the hour of his return, because he was FUNCTIONING as human, but he was and is God, his nature never changed.

Just like when Jesus appeared in the Old Testament as a man. He was still God, he just manifested himself as a man. The Father could do that also.

There are some problems here. You're leaning towards modalism, rather than Trinitarianism. But you still have a problem. If Jesus is God, Jesus died, who raised Him from the dead?

 

[MisterE]

There are some problems here. You're leaning towards modalism, rather than Trinitarianism. But you still have a problem. If Jesus is God, Jesus died, who raised Him from the dead?

Jesus says 1) No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father.”

 

[Butch5]

Jesus says 1) No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father.”

He has authority, not the power. Notice who the commandment came from. It didn't come from Him.

 

[MisterE]

He has authority, not the power. Notice who the commandment came from. It didn't come from Him.

The word 'authority' is elsewhere translated 'power'. It is the same Greek word, but not in English. This is my pet peeve with using English Translations while studying the word. In Greek, your comment makes no sense. Now, there are tools out there where you can do your own study of which Greek word is used and what it means. I recommend doing that before you post a comment on a Greek word. Hope that was helpful.

 

[Butch5]

The word 'authority' is elsewhere translated 'power'. It is the same Greek word, but not in English. This is my pet peeve with using English Translations while studying the word. In Greek, your comment makes no sense. Now, there are tools out there where you can do your own study of which Greek word is used and what it means. I recommend doing that before you post a comment on a Greek word. Hope that was helpful.

Actually I do know a little about Greek. They are not the same word. Authority is exousia and power is dynamis. He had authority. If you're referring to John 10:18 it doesn't use word dunamis. It uses exousia which means authority

 

[MisterE]

Actually I do know a little about Greek. They are not the same word. Authority is exousia and power is dynamis. He had authority. If you're referring to John 10:18 it doesn't use word dunamis. It uses exousia which means authority

Since you know a little Greek, read these definitions of exousia and dunamis

GNT Dictionary:
ἐξουσία

power, ability, faculty, Mt. 9:8; 10:1; efficiency, energy, Lk. 4:32; liberty, licence, Jn. 10:18; Acts 5:4; authority, rule, dominion, jurisdiction, Mt. 8:9; 28:18; meton. pl. authorities, potentates, powers, Lk. 12:11; 1 Cor. 15:24; Eph. 1:21; right, authority, full power, Mt. 9:6; 21:23; privilege, prerogative, Jn. 1:12; perhaps, a veil, 1 Cor. 11:10

δύναμις

power; strength, ability, Mt. 25:15; Heb. 11:11; efficacy, 1 Cor. 4:19, 20; Phil. 3:10; 1 Thess. 1:5; 2 Tim. 3:5; energy, Col. 1:29; 2 Tim. 1:7; meaning, purport of language, 1 Cor. 14:11; authority, Lk. 4:36; 9:1; might, power, majesty, Mt. 22:29; 24:30; Acts 3:12; Rom. 9:17; 2 Thess. 1:7; 2 Pet. 1:16; in NT a manifestation or instance of power, mighty means, Acts 8:10; Rom. 1:16; 1 Cor. 1:18, 24; ἡ δύναμις, omnipotence, Mt. 26:64; Lk. 22:69; Mt. 14:62; pl. authorities, Rom. 8:38; Eph. 1:21; 1 Pet. 3:22; miraculous power, Mk. 5:30; Lk. 1:35; 5:17; 6:19; 8:46; 24:49; 1 Cor. 2:4; a miracle, Mt. 11:20, 21, et al. freq.; a worker of miracles, 1 Cor. 12:28, 29; from the Hebrew αἱ δυνάμεις τῶν οὐρανῶν, the heavenly luminaries, Mt. 24:29; Mk. 13:25; Lk. 21:26; αἱ δυνάμεις, the spiritual powers, Mt. 14:2; Mk. 6:14

Both of these Greek words mean authority and power depending on the context.

 

[Butch5]

Since you know a little Greek, read these definitions of exousia and dunamis

GNT Dictionary:
ἐξουσία

power, ability, faculty, Mt. 9:8; 10:1; efficiency, energy, Lk. 4:32; liberty, licence, Jn. 10:18; Acts 5:4; authority, rule, dominion, jurisdiction, Mt. 8:9; 28:18; meton. pl. authorities, potentates, powers, Lk. 12:11; 1 Cor. 15:24; Eph. 1:21; right, authority, full power, Mt. 9:6; 21:23; privilege, prerogative, Jn. 1:12; perhaps, a veil, 1 Cor. 11:10

δύναμις

power; strength, ability, Mt. 25:15; Heb. 11:11; efficacy, 1 Cor. 4:19, 20; Phil. 3:10; 1 Thess. 1:5; 2 Tim. 3:5; energy, Col. 1:29; 2 Tim. 1:7; meaning, purport of language, 1 Cor. 14:11; authority, Lk. 4:36; 9:1; might, power, majesty, Mt. 22:29; 24:30; Acts 3:12; Rom. 9:17; 2 Thess. 1:7; 2 Pet. 1:16; in NT a manifestation or instance of power, mighty means, Acts 8:10; Rom. 1:16; 1 Cor. 1:18, 24; ἡ δύναμις, omnipotence, Mt. 26:64; Lk. 22:69; Mt. 14:62; pl. authorities, Rom. 8:38; Eph. 1:21; 1 Pet. 3:22; miraculous power, Mk. 5:30; Lk. 1:35; 5:17; 6:19; 8:46; 24:49; 1 Cor. 2:4; a miracle, Mt. 11:20, 21, et al. freq.; a worker of miracles, 1 Cor. 12:28, 29; from the Hebrew αἱ δυνάμεις τῶν οὐρανῶν, the heavenly luminaries, Mt. 24:29; Mk. 13:25; Lk. 21:26; αἱ δυνάμεις, the spiritual powers, Mt. 14:2; Mk. 6:14

Both of these Greek words mean authority and power depending on the context.

What do English definitions have to do with knowing Greek?

Do you realize you just contradicted yourself? In post 25 you said this.

"The word 'authority' is elsewhere translated 'power'. It is the same Greek word, but not in English. This is my pet peeve with using English Translations while studying the word. In Greek, your comment makes no sense. Now, there are tools out there where you can do your own study of which Greek word is used and what it means. I recommend doing that before you post a comment on a Greek word. Hope that was helpful."

Here you're basically telling me that the translators are wrong. Yet you turn around and quote definitions from dictionaries that are written by some of these same men.

All a Dictionary tells you is what the writer(s) think(s) the word means. That doesn't necessitate that he is correct. The same Dictionaries claim aion means eternal too, yet Jesus and the apostles clearly speak of the end of the aion.

When a definition defies logic we know the definition is incorrect. Since it is impossible for the dead to raise themselves it is not possible that Jesus could raise Himself from the dead. Therefore He did not have the power to do that. No matter what the translators or theologians claim.

 

[MisterE]

No matter what the translators or theologians claim

Are you saying that people ought to believe you and not believe the translators or theologians?

 

[Butch5]

Are you saying that people ought to believe you and not believe the translators or theologians?

No. I'm saying they should believe the Scriptures rather than the translators or theologians

 

[MisterE]

No. I'm saying they should believe the Scriptures rather than the translators or theologians

Translators produce the Scriptures. I don't understand what you are contending.

 

[Butch5]

Translators produce the Scriptures. I don't understand what you are contending.

No they don't. They interpet the Scriptures like everyone else.

 

[MisterE]

No they don't. They interpet the Scriptures like everyone else.

What Bible do you have?

 

[Butch5]

What Bible do you have?

I have most modern Translations and many of the older ones.

 

[MisterE]

I have most modern Translations and many of the older ones.

But those are just the interpretations of man. What do you use to actually read the word of God? Do you read a lot of your translations (interpretations of man) and take the ones you like the most? Just curious.

 

[Butch5]

But those are just the interpretations of man. What do you use to actually read the word of God? Do you read a lot of your translations (interpretations of man) and take the ones you like the most? Just curious.

Everything is the interpretation of men. When someone speaks to you you interpret what they are saying. So, when Jesus and the apostles speak of the end of the aion if interpret that as the aion ends. So, when some translator or theologian comes along and says aion means eternal or forever I have to reject what they say because it doesn't align with what Jesus and the apostles said

 

[MisterE]

Everything is the interpretation of men. When someone speaks to you you interpret what they are saying. So, when Jesus and the apostles speak of the end of the aion if interpret that as the aion ends. So, when some translator or theologian comes along and says aion means eternal or forever I have to reject what they say because it doesn't align with what Jesus and the apostles said

I don't think you see the logic of what you are saying.

But how do you know the translators (the interpreters) got it right as to what Jesus and the Apostles said. The translators are just giving their interpretations. You are living your life on other men's interpretations.

And how do you know aion doesn't mean eternal? What source do you go to to check the translation?

 

[Butch5]

I don't think you see the logic of what you are saying.

But how do you know the translators (the interpreters) got it right as to what Jesus and the Apostles said. The translators are just giving their interpretations. You are living your life on other men's interpretations.

And how do you know aion doesn't mean eternal? What source do you go to to check the translation?

No. We can look at the Greek texts ourselves

 

[MisterE]

So, when some translator or theologian comes along and says aion means eternal or forever I have to reject what they say because it doesn't align with what Jesus and the apostles said

The Greek word you cited is AIWN. Some of its meanings are:

αἰών the noun, See BDAG 3rd ed, the most cited Greek Lexicon today. Here is its definition of aion. See p. 32
means eternity, eternally, in perpetuity

AIWNIOS, the adjective, means eternity, indeterminate as to duration, eternal, everlasting

These definitions are taken from the Greek text. So, does this tell us what aion means?

 

[Butch5]

The Greek word you cited is AIWN. Some of its meanings are:

αἰών the noun, See BDAG 3rd ed, the most cited Greek Lexicon today. Here is its definition of aion. See p. 32
means eternity, eternally, in perpetuity

AIWNIOS, the adjective, means eternity, indeterminate as to duration, eternal, everlasting

These definitions are taken from the Greek text. So, does this tell us what aion means?

I'm aware of what they say it means. However, that is obviously wrong.