John Calvin's Heretical Teaching

[brightfame52]

Did you read Rom. 10:17 which I mentioned?

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Rom 10:17)

There is no such thing in the Bible as believing to be something that someone could perform. Faith, through which we are saved, has nothing to do with man's performance, but finds its origin in the Word of God, so that God gets all the glory for our salvation:

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph 2:8-9)

It is however true that the Bible commands men to believe (e.g. John 14:11), but this fact can in no way nullify the testimony that the Bible gives on the Faith as originating from the Word of God and as being a free gift of God! By the way, the command to believe also belongs to the Word of God, which can therefore produce faith in those who heard it!

Instead of making non-biblical assumptions, can you please stay on the ground of the biblical revelation (Titus 1:9) so that we can have a fruitful discussion that can edify us in our holy faith (Jude 1:20)?

Yeah I love Rom 10:17 and Eph 2:8-9

Yet I must warn you, to condition salvation on your faith, act of believing, thats salvation by works, a cursed view which denies grace.

 

[JJonas]

Yeah I love Rom 10:17 and Eph 2:8-9

Yet I must warn you, to condition salvation on your faith, act of believing, thats salvation by works, a cursed view which denies grace.

By grace we are saved through faith, as it is written in Eph. 2.8. This is what I believe. This view cannot be cursed because that's the view that the Bible (in the mentioned verse) testifies to be true!

Nowhere in the Bible I can read that conditioning salvation on faith is salvation by works! Can you prove me wrong with the Bible? But it seems to me that you don't let the Bible have the final authority on your beliefs (Sola Scriptura). Don't you recognize the supremacy of the Bible over all your theological and philosophical conceptions? Because all discussions are going to be vain if we don't share the same ground for our beliefs!

 

[Hopeful 2]

By grace we are saved through faith, as it is written in Eph. 2.8. This is what I believe. This view cannot be cursed because that's the view that the Bible (in the mentioned verse) testifies to be true!

Nowhere in the Bible I can read that conditioning salvation on faith is salvation by works! Can you prove me wrong with the Bible? But it seems to me that you don't let the Bible have the final authority on your beliefs (Sola Scriptura). Don't you recognize the supremacy of the Bible over all your theological and philosophical conceptions? Because all discussions are going to be vain if we don't share the same ground for our beliefs!

Well said.
Besides, the only "works" written against by Paul were the works of the Law...circumcision, dietary rules, feast keeping, sabbath keeping, tithing, etc.
Those are the things that can save no man.
The erroneous include faith, and water baptism, and repentance from sin, and even resisting temptation in their false doctrine.

Welcome to the site !

 

[brightfame52]

By grace we are saved through faith, as it is written in Eph. 2.8. This is what I believe. This view cannot be cursed because that's the view that the Bible (in the mentioned verse) testifies to be true!

Nowhere in the Bible I can read that conditioning salvation on faith is salvation by works! Can you prove me wrong with the Bible? But it seems to me that you don't let the Bible have the final authority on your beliefs (Sola Scriptura). Don't you recognize the supremacy of the Bible over all your theological and philosophical conceptions? Because all discussions are going to be vain if we don't share the same ground for our beliefs!

Its not up to me to prove you wrong, that's Gods Specialty, however Salvation is by Grace through Faith, but if you make Faith a condition for you to do to get saved, its works. You make anything a condition, a requirement man must do to get God to save them, its an accursed gospel.

 

[JJonas]

Its not up to me to prove you wrong, that's Gods Specialty

The Holy Spirit does indeed convince (John 16:8), however it is also written:
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear (1 Pet. 3:15)

So if I am wrong, are you ready to show me that in the Bible, so that I can got convinced by the Word of God?

Salvation is by Grace through Faith

Right, as you said! Faith is needed for salvation. Otherwise salvation would not be “through Faith”.

but if you make Faith a condition for you to do to get saved, its works. You make anything a condition, a requirement man must do to get God to save them, its an accursed gospel.

Does the Bible testify what you wrote, or are you simply striving with words?

Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. ( 2 Tim 2:14)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Its not up to me to prove you wrong, that's Gods Specialty, however Salvation is by Grace through Faith, but if you make Faith a condition for you to do to get saved, its works. You make anything a condition, a requirement man must do to get God to save them, its an accursed gospel.

The accursed false gospel is one of salvation without repentance from sin and the cleansing by the blood of Christ at baptism.
It is one that depends on the works of the Law for salvation...i.e.., circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, feast keeping, tithing, and hundreds of other OT Laws.

 

[JLB]

Yeah I love Rom 10:17 and Eph 2:8-9

Yet I must warn you, to condition salvation on your faith, act of believing, thats salvation by works, a cursed view which denies grace.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9


Do you believe a person must obey Jesus Christ to receive eternal salvation?

 

[brightfame52]

The Holy Spirit does indeed convince (John 16:8), however it is also written:
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear (1 Pet. 3:15)

So if I am wrong, are you ready to show me that in the Bible, so that I can got convinced by the Word of God?


Right, as you said! Faith is needed for salvation. Otherwise salvation would not be “through Faith”.


Does the Bible testify what you wrote, or are you simply striving with words?

Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. ( 2 Tim 2:14)

Faith is needed for Salvation but not as a condition for salvation, that's where many err. Faith accompanies Salvation. So again if you make faith a condition of salvation, you greatly err and fall into the snare of Salvation conditioned on works.

 

[brightfame52]

The accursed false gospel is one of salvation without repentance from sin and the cleansing by the blood of Christ at baptism.
It is one that depends on the works of the Law for salvation...i.e.., circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, feast keeping, tithing, and hundreds of other OT Laws.

Baptism has nothing to do with the cleansing blood of Christ. Those for whom He died are cleansed by His Blood by His One offering of Himself, that purified them from sin Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

The word purged is the greek word katharismos:

1. a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

This was accomplished by Christ Himself and then He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on High,

Water Baptism has nothing to do with it. In fact, everyone Jesus died for [His Sheep, Church] are born into this world purged from their sins.

 

[brightfame52]

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9


Do you believe a person must obey Jesus Christ to receive eternal salvation?

Same warning goes for you !

 

[JJonas]

Faith is needed for Salvation but not as a condition for salvation, that's where many err. Faith accompanies Salvation. So again if you make faith a condition of salvation, you greatly err and fall into the snare of Salvation conditioned on works.

If Faith is needed for Salvation, how can Faith not be a condition for Salvation? Or are you striving with words?

Why can't you show me how the Bible testify your claim as I have asked you multiple times? Do you understand that it is not by believing someone's fanciful gospel that we can be saved, but only by believing the Gospel that is revealed in the Bible? If I believe my own fanciful gospel, than correct me with the Bible! But if you don't, your non-answer will speak against you!

 

[JJonas]

Same warning goes for you !

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (Acts 17:11)

Paul and his companions didn't warn people for comparing what they were preaching with what is in the scriptures, but they call them noble instead! They had confidence, because they knew that they were preaching the truth and can only be confirmed by the scriptures.

 

[JLB]

Same warning goes for you !

Warning?

I asked a question and listed a scripture.

Again, very simple question -

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obeyHim. Hebrews 5:9


Do you believe a person must obey Jesus Christ to receive eternal salvation?

 

[brightfame52]

If Faith is needed for Salvation, how can Faith not be a condition for Salvation? Or are you striving with words?

Why can't you show me how the Bible testify your claim as I have asked you multiple times? Do you understand that it is not by believing someone's fanciful gospel that we can be saved, but only by believing the Gospel that is revealed in the Bible? If I believe my own fanciful gospel, than correct me with the Bible! But if you don't, your non-answer will speak against you!

Dont ask me a dumb question, but if you condition salvation on your faith, you believe in works salvation

 

[brightfame52]

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (Acts 17:11)

Paul and his companions didn't warn people for comparing what they were preaching with what is in the scriptures, but they call them noble instead! They had confidence, because they knew that they were preaching the truth and can only be confirmed by the scriptures.

Okay and ? Nothing here says anyone made faith a condition for Salvation

 

[brightfame52]

Warning?

I asked a question and listed a scripture.

Again, very simple question -

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obeyHim. Hebrews 5:9


Do you believe a person must obey Jesus Christ to receive eternal salvation?

A Person obeys Jesus Christ if He is the one who caused the obedience when He saved them.

Now do I believe one must obey Christ to get saved, No thats works mans doing salvation, its cursed

And I warn you again, if you condition your salvation on any of your obedience, you are under works religion

And plus I have been through this with you a hundred million times

 

[JLB]

A Person obeys Jesus Christ if He is the one who caused the obedience when He saved them.

That's not what the verse says or the question I asked.

Try it again.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9


Do you believe a person must obey Jesus Christ to receive eternal salvation?


It's a simple question requiring a yes or no answer.

 

[JLB]

And I warn you again, if you condition your salvation on any of your obedience, you are under works religion

Those are your words and not scripture.

The condition for receiving salvation is to believe.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

again

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

The condition for salvation is to believe.


Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” John 6:29



So far all you have is opinion and the doctrine of man.


JLB

 

[brightfame52]

That's not what the verse says or the question I asked.

Try it again.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9


Do you believe a person must obey Jesus Christ to receive eternal salvation?


It's a simple question requiring a yes or no answer.

It is what it says, I have explained it to you many times, not doing it again

 

[brightfame52]

Those are your words and not scripture.

The condition for receiving salvation is to believe.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

again

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

The condition for salvation is to believe.


Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” John 6:29



So far all you have is opinion and the doctrine of man.


JLB

You condition your salvation on your obedience, its apostacy.