Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

John Calvin's Heretical Teaching

Romans 11:35 Who has first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?".

"Free WIllies" replay: "I have believed on Christ via my own independent (free) strength so I have given to the LORD and God is obligated to reward me for my independent (free from God) efforts that add glory to an immutable God".
Aside: Ridiculous Free Willie argument, not mine. :hysterical
 
atpollard



So you dont believe the Blood of Christ actually saved everyone it was shed for ? Yes or No But it gave an opportunity to become saved ? Is that a fair assessment of your words here ?
LOL, I see the Calvinists are circling their wagons with blades drawn ready to kill a wounded soldier at the first smell of blood! [That was about as many metaphors as I could mash together in one sentence.]

Nope, Fastfredy0 and brightfame52 , that was NOT a fair assessment of my words or beliefs.

Let me answer by repeating MY STATEMENT:
”The Blood of Christ was SUFFICIENT to cover the sins of all without exception.”

Let me defend that statement by offering a hypothetical conversation for you to ponder:

Damned man standing before the Judgement Seat: “I wanted to come to you, Jesus. Why did you push me away?”​
Jesus: “I had no choice, there was only so much Blood available to forgive sin and we just ran out. There was no blood left to cover your sins so I had to reject you.”​

[Do YOU believe that scenario is reasonable? Do YOU believe that the Blood of Jesus was NOT SUFFICIENT to cover every sin and THAT is why most are damned? Do you believe that Jesus’ atonement needed to be RATIONED?]
 
Romans 11:35 Who has first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?".

"Free WIllies" replay: "I have believed on Christ via my own independent (free) strength so I have given to the LORD and God is obligated to reward me for my independent (free from God) efforts that add glory to an immutable God".
Aside: Ridiculous Free Willie argument, not mine. :hysterical

it is OBVIOUS that you DO NOT understand what the Bible means by FREE WILL!

Like you DON'T understand that Calvin believed that Jesus Christ Died for THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, including Judas!
 
Like you DON'T understand that Calvin believed that Jesus Christ Died for THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, including Judas!
That is actually only your eisegesis of John Calvin, not what John Calvin actually wrote.

However, even if you were correct, John Calvin is not and Apostle and his writings are not Scripture. Personally, I care not one whit what John Calvin wrote.
 
Post 231
I agree that EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION has the opportunity to be saved “IF they WANT to be” … the Blood of Christ is SUFFICIENT to save everyone that has ever and will ever live,

I have no issue with "the Blood of Christ is Sufficient to save everyone that has ever lived. My issue was the first statement: "That EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION has the opportunity to be saved". My question still remains unanswered. How was a North American Indian who died having never heard of Christ.... what was his "opportunity" to be saved?
 
it is OBVIOUS that you DO NOT understand what the Bible means by FREE WILL!
The Bible does not speak of Free Will save for a Free Will offering which is a different concept.

Your response is a non sequitur (as usual)

Like you DON'T understand that Calvin believed that Jesus Christ Died for THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, including Judas!
Your response is a non sequitur (as usual)
I'll save myself some time and put you on ignore.
 
The Bible does not speak of Free Will save for a Free Will offering which is a different concept.

Your response is a non sequitur (as usual)


Your response is a non sequitur (as usual)
I'll save myself some time and put you on ignore.

As per usual, I will prove you WRONG! Watch out for this coming...
 
That is actually only your eisegesis of John Calvin, not what John Calvin actually wrote.

However, even if you were correct, John Calvin is not and Apostle and his writings are not Scripture. Personally, I care not one whit what John Calvin wrote.

IF you call yourself a "Calvinist", then you are a FALSE bearer to his name, as Calvin never believed in any limits on whom Jesus died for!

In fact, the so called "5 Points of Calvinism" is a FALSE name!

Without the L in TULIP, the TUI are destroyed!
 
Define Biblical free will.

One of MANY verses that is very clear that ALL humans have a God-given FREE WILL

Joshua 24

14 “Therefore, fear the Lord and worship Him in sincerity and truth. Get rid of the gods your fathers worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and worship Yahweh. 15 But if it doesn’t please you to worship Yahweh, CHOOSE for yourselves today the one you will worship: the gods your fathers worshiped beyond the Euphrates River or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living. As for me and my family, we will worship Yahweh.”16 The people replied, “We will certainly not abandon the Lord to worship other gods! 17 For the Lord our God brought us and our fathers out of the land of Egypt, out of the place of slavery, and performed these great signs before our eyes. He also protected us all along the way we went and among all the peoples whose lands we traveled through. 18 The Lord drove out before us all the peoples, including the Amorites who lived in the land. We too will worship the Lord, because He is our God.”

How can Joshua ask ALL those who were present, to CHOOSE (Heb, ba·ḥă·rū) , whether they will serve the false "gods", or The One True Living God, IF they did not have the ABILITY to do so?

It is theological NONSENSE to suggest that only the "elect" are given this "ability" to CHOOSE God!

There were those who did not CHOOSE to follow YHWH, but these also had the FREE WILL to either follow Him, or not!
 
LOL, I see the Calvinists are circling their wagons with blades drawn ready to kill a wounded soldier at the first smell of blood! [That was about as many metaphors as I could mash together in one sentence.]

Nope, Fastfredy0 and brightfame52 , that was NOT a fair assessment of my words or beliefs.

Let me answer by repeating MY STATEMENT:
”The Blood of Christ was SUFFICIENT to cover the sins of all without exception.”

Let me defend that statement by offering a hypothetical conversation for you to ponder:

Damned man standing before the Judgement Seat: “I wanted to come to you, Jesus. Why did you push me away?”​
Jesus: “I had no choice, there was only so much Blood available to forgive sin and we just ran out. There was no blood left to cover your sins so I had to reject you.”​

[Do YOU believe that scenario is reasonable? Do YOU believe that the Blood of Jesus was NOT SUFFICIENT to cover every sin and THAT is why most are damned? Do you believe that Jesus’ atonement needed to be RATIONED?]
You must not believe that Christs blood was shed only for them He saved by His Blood. If you say it was sufficient to save the non elect, then you mean it was shed for them in some degree. And if it was shed for them in some degree, and it didn't save them, that's putting the deficiency in the blood of Christ, or you are saying the non elect can be saved by something they do in conjunction with the blood of Christ. Either way what you are saying is very erroneous and dishonoring to Christ.
 
One of MANY verses that is very clear that ALL humans have a God-given FREE WILL

Joshua 24

14 “Therefore, fear the Lord and worship Him in sincerity and truth. Get rid of the gods your fathers worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and worship Yahweh. 15 But if it doesn’t please you to worship Yahweh, CHOOSE for yourselves today the one you will worship: the gods your fathers worshiped beyond the Euphrates River or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living. As for me and my family, we will worship Yahweh.”16 The people replied, “We will certainly not abandon the Lord to worship other gods! 17 For the Lord our God brought us and our fathers out of the land of Egypt, out of the place of slavery, and performed these great signs before our eyes. He also protected us all along the way we went and among all the peoples whose lands we traveled through. 18 The Lord drove out before us all the peoples, including the Amorites who lived in the land. We too will worship the Lord, because He is our God.”

How can Joshua ask ALL those who were present, to CHOOSE (Heb, ba·ḥă·rū) , whether they will serve the false "gods", or The One True Living God, IF they did not have the ABILITY to do so?

It is theological NONSENSE to suggest that only the "elect" are given this "ability" to CHOOSE God!

There were those who did not CHOOSE to follow YHWH, but these also had the FREE WILL to either follow Him, or not!
The elect did not "choose" God.

Ephesians 1:4-5 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,


No human has the desire or the will to seek or "choose" God.

Romans3:10 -18 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE." "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS"; "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS"; "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS, AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN." "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."


But you cannot accept this Biblical truth.
 
Post 231


I have no issue with "the Blood of Christ is Sufficient to save everyone that has ever lived. My issue was the first statement: "That EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION has the opportunity to be saved". My question still remains unanswered. How was a North American Indian who died having never heard of Christ.... what was his "opportunity" to be saved?
How was ANYONE saved pre-Moses? (no LAW)?
How was ANYONE saved pre-Incarnation (no Christ)?

I think it was Romans 1 and Romans 2 that deals with that esoteric theological question.
However, I was focused more on POST CRUCIFIXION. Are all babies DAMNED simply because they have not obtained cognitive language skills yet? ... Or is GOD able to save ANYONE that HE grants the gift of FAITH!

PS: The exact Quote was "I agree that EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION has the opportunity to be saved 'IF they WANT to be'" ... It is critical that "they want to be saved" because that desire can only come from God as a gift. If God gives the DESIRE, Christ supplied the BLOOD to make it possible!

John 6:44 [NASB20] "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day."
 
Last edited:
IF you call yourself a "Calvinist", then you are a FALSE bearer to his name, as Calvin never believed in any limits on whom Jesus died for!

In fact, the so called "5 Points of Calvinism" is a FALSE name!

Without the L in TULIP, the TUI are destroyed!
You are merely demonstrating historic ignorance of the origin of the name "Calvinist". A brief history lesson from the REFORMATION.

First, the Reformation began LONG before the birth of John Calvin. Some claim Huss as a Reformer but all acknowledge Martin Luther as a Reformer (long before John Calvin ever wrote ANYTHING). The Lutheran Church was the "official state church" throughout the German "principalities" during the Reformation, wielding both civil and ecclesiastical power. When the so-called "Second Wave" of reformers came along (which included many important individuals, including John Calvin) advocating that Luther had not gone far enough in purging "Rome" from the Church (for example, Lutherans still venerate Mary and baptize babies), the position of the Lutheran Church was that these new Reformers were going too far. Wielding the power of an official STATE CHURCH, it was the Lutheran Church that assigned the name "Calvinist" to these new Reformers (who called themselves "reformers"). The intent of the STATE CHURCH was to slander the reformers by claiming they followed the teaching of A MAN rather than GOD and THE BIBLE.

In fact, John Calvin was only one of many Reformation writers, although he was one of the more important writers in German, thus a more direct threat to the German speaking Lutheran Church than some other Reformers might be. However, the Reformation traces its doctrine back to the Synod of Dort more than "The Institutes" of John Calvin.

Ultimately, one does not pick their own nickname, and the Lutheran Church was very influential ... so the followers of Reformation Theology are saddled with the nickname "Calvinist" in spite of its general non-applicability. People like YOU are just following in a long and dishonorable tradition of falsely claiming that we who embrace SCRIPTURE and support the 5 Solas merely following the teaching of a man that most of us have never read (all because our ENEMIES assigned Calvin's name to God's truth to protect their worldly wealth and power.)
 
You must not believe that Christs blood was shed only for them He saved by His Blood. If you say it was sufficient to save the non elect, then you mean it was shed for them in some degree. And if it was shed for them in some degree, and it didn't save them, that's putting the deficiency in the blood of Christ,
So you are saying that Jesus wanted to save the non-elect but ran out of BLOOD?
You are saying THE BLOOD WAS INSUFFICIENT ... that is the reason many are not saved?
😱
🤯


or you are saying the non elect can be saved by something they do in conjunction with the blood of Christ. Either way what you are saying is very erroneous and dishonoring to Christ.
Sigh ... I prefer non-Calvinists ... at least they pick fights over disagreements. You look to pick fights over semantics (I didn't say something the way YOU demand I say it).

EVERYONE that WANTS to be saved IS SAVED ... they are saved by the BLOOD OF CHRIST shed for THEM! Those who are UNSAVED (eternally damned, passed over, reprobate) DO NOT DESIRE TO B E SAVED ... therefore the BLOOD OF CHRIST is not wasted being shed for those that do not desire it! The DESIRE to be saved, comes from GOD [Philippians 2:13] ... FAITH is a gift from GOD, SALVATION is a gift from GOD [Ephesians 2:8-9] ... all of it comes from GOD as a gift "to whomever He desires" [Romans 9:15,18]. However. the simple fact that nobody (natural man) desires to be saved [John 3:19-20], does not negate the fact that Jesus' death was SUFFICIENT (ample. enough, capable if needed) to cover any and every sin of any and every person. It was NOT an insufficiency on the part of GOD that limits SALVATION, it is GOD's PLAN to DRAW [John 6:44] a foreknown [Romans 8:29] and predestined [Ephesians 1:5] "whoever believes" [John 3:16] ... who believe because of an unmerited GIFT from GOD [Ephesians 2:8-9] ... and whose exact number and specific names were recorded in a book before the foundation of the world [Revelation 13:8].
If you still do not like what I believe or how I express it ... TUFF (I don't work for you ... Romans 14:4)
😛
 
You are merely demonstrating historic ignorance of the origin of the name "Calvinist". A brief history lesson from the REFORMATION.

First, the Reformation began LONG before the birth of John Calvin. Some claim Huss as a Reformer but all acknowledge Martin Luther as a Reformer (long before John Calvin ever wrote ANYTHING). The Lutheran Church was the "official state church" throughout the German "principalities" during the Reformation, wielding both civil and ecclesiastical power. When the so-called "Second Wave" of reformers came along (which included many important individuals, including John Calvin) advocating that Luther had not gone far enough in purging "Rome" from the Church (for example, Lutherans still venerate Mary and baptize babies), the position of the Lutheran Church was that these new Reformers were going too far. Wielding the power of an official STATE CHURCH, it was the Lutheran Church that assigned the name "Calvinist" to these new Reformers (who called themselves "reformers"). The intent of the STATE CHURCH was to slander the reformers by claiming they followed the teaching of A MAN rather than GOD and THE BIBLE.

In fact, John Calvin was only one of many Reformation writers, although he was one of the more important writers in German, thus a more direct threat to the German speaking Lutheran Church than some other Reformers might be. However, the Reformation traces its doctrine back to the Synod of Dort more than "The Institutes" of John Calvin.

Ultimately, one does not pick their own nickname, and the Lutheran Church was very influential ... so the followers of Reformation Theology are saddled with the nickname "Calvinist" in spite of its general non-applicability. People like YOU are just following in a long and dishonorable tradition of falsely claiming that we who embrace SCRIPTURE and support the 5 Solas merely following the teaching of a man that most of us have never read (all because our ENEMIES assigned Calvin's name to God's truth to protect their worldly wealth and power.)

Simple question, are you a Calvinist
 
So you are saying that Jesus wanted to save the non-elect but ran out of BLOOD?
You are saying THE BLOOD WAS INSUFFICIENT ... that is the reason many are not saved?
😱
🤯



Sigh ... I prefer non-Calvinists ... at least they pick fights over disagreements. You look to pick fights over semantics (I didn't say something the way YOU demand I say it).

EVERYONE that WANTS to be saved IS SAVED ... they are saved by the BLOOD OF CHRIST shed for THEM! Those who are UNSAVED (eternally damned, passed over, reprobate) DO NOT DESIRE TO B E SAVED ... therefore the BLOOD OF CHRIST is not wasted being shed for those that do not desire it! The DESIRE to be saved, comes from GOD [Philippians 2:13] ... FAITH is a gift from GOD, SALVATION is a gift from GOD [Ephesians 2:8-9] ... all of it comes from GOD as a gift "to whomever He desires" [Romans 9:15,18]. However. the simple fact that nobody (natural man) desires to be saved [John 3:19-20], does not negate the fact that Jesus' death was SUFFICIENT (ample. enough, capable if needed) to cover any and every sin of any and every person. It was NOT an insufficiency on the part of GOD that limits SALVATION, it is GOD's PLAN to DRAW [John 6:44] a foreknown [Romans 8:29] and predestined [Ephesians 1:5] "whoever believes" [John 3:16] ... who believe because of an unmerited GIFT from GOD [Ephesians 2:8-9] ... and whose exact number and specific names were recorded in a book before the foundation of the world [Revelation 13:8].
If you still do not like what I believe or how I express it ... TUFF (I don't work for you ... Romans 14:4)
😛
You must not believe that Christs blood was shed only for them He saved by His Blood. If you say it was sufficient to save the non elect, then you mean it was shed for them in some degree. And if it was shed for them in some degree, and it didn't save them, that's putting the deficiency in the blood of Christ,
 
Back
Top