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John Calvin's Heretical Teaching

SolaScriptura said:
WOW, is it VERY CLEAR in Psalm 106:40, that "GOD DETESTS His own inheritance", the ELECT in the Old Testament!

The Hebrew word used here for DETEST, "way·ṯā·‘êḇ", is much stronger than what is used in Malachi 1:3, "śā·nê·ṯî" (hate), for Esau!

These are FACTS! but your "theology" cannot allow you to accept this.
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I accept it. The problem is, its not talking about Gods elect loved and chosen in Christ before the foundation. Yet Esau was a person God hated, and so are them in Ps 5:5
 
atpollard said:
Come on ... How many times have we explained and defined what TOTAL DEPRAVITY means and what it DOES NOT mean ... yet people still insist on mis-defining "Total Depravity" [the tainting of every part of the human being - mind, body and soul] as "Utter Depravity" [complete evil - a sociopath - incapable of any good at all].

The REFORMED claim that all mankind is TOTALLY DEPRAVED:
  • our MIND is tainted by sin so that our thoughts are not perfect and do not naturally lead us towards God, but away from God and into sin.
  • our BODY is tainted by sin so that our FLESH is not perfect and is both subject to weakness (illness) and drawn to sin.
  • our SOUL/SPIRIT is tainted by sin so that our INNERMOST BEING is not perfect and is our union with our Creator, our purpose to serve Him and our fellowship with him are irreparably broken [unless God repairs it].
The REFORMED do not now and have never claimed that all mankind is UTTERLY DEPRAVED:
  • Everyone is capable of some "good" (by human standards) - even Hitler loved his mother.
  • Everyone is capable of greater evil than they presently possess.
  • God restrains the evil that he will permit (Satan vs Job; Brothers vs Joseph; Romans 1:18-31).
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A, I like how you think.

Could you give me something written that states the above?

The problem here is that you do not agree with your own confession, 1689.

Here is what it states:

CHAPTER 6
THE FALL, SIN AND PUNISHMENT

6.2 OR PARAGRAPH 2
Our first parents, by this sin, fell from their coriginal righteousness and communionwith God, and we in them whereby death came upon all: dall becoming dead in sin, and wholly defiled ein all the faculties and parts of soul and body.
6.3
They being the froot, and by God’s appointment, standing in the room and stead of allmankind, the guilt of the sin was imputed, and corrupted nature conveyed, to all theirposterity descending from them by ordinary generation, being now gconceived in sin,and by nature children hof wrath, the servants of sin, the subjects iof death, and all othermiseries, spiritual, temporal, and eternal, unless the Lord Jesus kset them free.

6.4
From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly lindisposed, disabled, andmade opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, mdo proceed all actual transgressions.


As is understood by the reformed, our nature is totally corrupt,
and man is UNABLE to reach out to God or to do any good at all.
 
brightfame52 said:
I accept it. The problem is, its not talking about Gods elect loved and chosen in Christ before the foundation. Yet Esau was a person God hated, and so are them in Ps 5:5
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Did Jesus tell us to hate our parents?
NO.

As Jesus used it and due to hermeneutics, the word HATE in that CONTEXT and the way the language was used in those times....it means LESS LOVED.

We must love our parents LESS THAN WE LOVE GOD.
 
atpollard said:
Technically, I think that both YOU and HE are both wrong on that "judgement" point ...

John 3:18 [NASB] ​
"The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."​

What does this verse mean?
Is Jesus offering an EMPTY PROMISE?

Or as Paul put it ...

Romans 8:1-8 [NASB] ​
Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God [did:] sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and [as an offering] for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able [to do so,] and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.​
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We don't know if we will be saved at death.

Even Calvin taught this.

See
Book 3
Chapter 24
Paragraph 8

YOU, A, are not certain of your calling until death.
 
brightfame52 said:
He has judged me.
Click to expand...
Not yet.


Your judging will come at the end of your life.
If you are still saved then...

Matthew 7:1-2
1“Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
2“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

John 5:28
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
 
GodsGrace said:
If God hardens hearts, He is NOT a God I would care to serve.
And that's all I'll post here.

Think of this:

IF we're TOTALLY depraved as the reformed teach...
why would God need to harden a heart?
Isn't it already as hard as it can be?
How can a man be made MORE EVIL than he already is?

Not believing in free will is the cause of many biblical problematics.
Click to expand...
I understand what you are saying. Why run from what you do not understand?

But how do you interpret those verses you do not like?

Consider this verse

1 Samuel 16:14 Now the Spirit of Yahweh departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from Yahweh terrorized him.

I will respect your decision if you do not want to answer.

Grace and peace to you.
 
electedbyhim said:
I understand what you are saying. Why run from what you do not understand?

But how do you interpret those verses you do not like?

Consider this verse

1 Samuel 16:14 Now the Spirit of Yahweh departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from Yahweh terrorized him.

I will respect your decision if you do not want to answer.

Grace and peace to you.
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I don't understand why you posted 1 Samuel 16:14
??

God was looking for a new King.
He chose David....for service. It's always for service.
 
GodsGrace said:
Did Jesus tell us to hate our parents?
NO.

As Jesus used it and due to hermeneutics, the word HATE in that CONTEXT and the way the language was used in those times....it means LESS LOVED.

We must love our parents LESS THAN WE LOVE GOD.
Click to expand...
God didnt love Esau Rom 9:13 nor does He Love the workers of iniquity Ps 5:5
 
SolaScriptura said:
WOW, is it VERY CLEAR in Psalm 106:40, that "GOD DETESTS His own inheritance", the ELECT in the Old Testament!

The Hebrew word used here for DETEST, "way·ṯā·‘êḇ", is much stronger than what is used in Malachi 1:3, "śā·nê·ṯî" (hate), for Esau!

These are FACTS! but your "theology" cannot allow you to accept this.
Click to expand...

Psalm 106:40 So the anger of Yahweh was kindled against His people And He abhorred His inheritance.

Psalms 106:40-43
From the time of the judges until the Assyrian and Babylonian exiles, God used the hand of His enemies to discipline Israel for their sin.
Click to expand...

Psa_106:40, Psa_106:41
“Therefore was the wrath of the Lord kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.” Not that even then he broke his covenant or utterly cast off his offending people, but he felt the deepest indignation, and even looked upon them with abhorrence. The feeling described is like to that of a husband who still loves his guilty wife, and yet when he thinks of her lewdness feels his whole nature rising in righteous anger at her, so that the very sight of her afflicts his soul. How far the divine wrath can burn against those whom he yet loves in his heart it were hard to say, but certainly Israel pushed the experiment to the extreme. “And he gave them into the hand of the heathen.” This was the manifestation of his abhorrence. He gave them a taste of the result of sin; they spared the heathen, mixed with them and imitated them, and soon they had to smart from them, for hordes of invaders were let loose upon them to spoil them at their pleasure. Men make rods for their own backs. Their own inventions become their punishments. “And they that hated them ruled over them.” And who could wonder? Sin never creates true love. They joined the heathen in their wickedness, and they did not win their hearts, but rather provoked their contempt. If we mix with men of the world they will soon become our masters and our tyrants, and we cannot want worse. Spurgeon
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Psalms 106:40
Therefore was the wrath of the Lord kindled against his people,.... Sin is the cause of wrath, which is compared to fire kindled by the breath of the Almighty, and is intolerable; this shows that the offence must be very great, as to incense the Lord against a people he had chosen above all others to be his peculiar people; as well as it was an aggravation, of their sin, so highly to provoke the Lord, whom they had vouched to be their God. There may be appearances of wrath for sin against those who are the Lord's people in the highest and best sense.

Insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance; the people of Israel, whom he had chosen for his inheritance, and were his portion, and the lot of his inheritance. This must be understood of the body of the people, not of every individual; not of the remnant according to the election of grace among them, of which there were some in all ages; for this would be contrary to his love, and the unchangeableness of it: and however not of the persons of his people, but of their sins; and of the appearances of his providence towards them, which look like wrath, indignation, and abhorrence; for God will not cast off his people, nor forsake his inheritance, Psa_94:14 the following verses explain this wrath and abhorrence. The Targum in the king's Bible is,

"the Word of the Lord abhorred,'' &c. see Zec_11:8. Gill
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electedbyhim said:
Do you believe God sends evil spirits to people?
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Oh, I see.
No, I don't believe God - who IS love, sends evil spirits to people.

He most definitely ALLOWS evil spirits to enter into persons.
If you think that He does, then do you believe persons that are possessed by an evil spirit, to this day,
are possessed because GOD sent the evil spirit into them?

See. Scripture has to make sense.
You can't have God doing one thing in the OT and a different thing in the NT.
It's the same God in both.

You have to consider that the OT was written about 4,000 years ago and the story of David about 3,000 years ago.
They attributed everything that happened to God.

Saul became depressed. It was believed that God made him depressed.
If a person is depressed today, do you think God made them depressed?

If Jesus taught John that God IS love, and I know you know about Divine Simplicity,
then how could God EVER PUT AN EVIL SPIRIT into anyone?

We must reconcile verses that seem to conflict. You can't just pick a verse because it seems to say what you want it to say.
This reconciliation of verses can only happen if we have our theology correct.
 
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