John MacArthur UNFIT to be a Minister Of the Bible!

[JLB]

The P in TULIP is Biblical

All of "Calvinism" is not Biblically wrong

OSAS is the P in TULIP

Perseverance is something each of us must choose to do.

Perseverance is not something we as Christians automatically do.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Perseverance is something each of us must choose to do.

Perseverance is not something we as Christians automatically do.

No Christian can "preserve" themselves!

1 Peter 1:5

who are kept by the Power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time

 

[JLB]

No Christian can "preserve" themselves!

1 Peter 1:5

who are kept by the Power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time

Our will must choose to be employed to do God's will, being empowered by the Spirit.


For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13


Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

 

[electedbyhim]

The OP is dealing with John MacArthur and Eileen Gray, who was publicly disciplined by his church, and then kicked out, for not taking her ABUSIVE husband back. This guy was found GUILTY, and spent many years in prison. In a LA Times report 21st Feb 2024, this same David Gray, the "husband", has been charged "with four counts of sex abuse of a child younger than 15, one count of child abuse, one count of physical abuse of a child and two counts of dissuading a witness", https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-feb-21-me-teacher21-story.html

One of JMs own elders, Hohn Cho, after a detailed investigation, sent his report to JM, and this was IGNORED!, and NEVER APOLOGIZED!!!

If you are happy attending a "church", where the senior pastor openly counsels AGAINST the clear Teachings of the Holy Bible, and then publicly rejects the need to recant and repent, then you are "supporting" this man's FALSE teachings by being there!

I used JO as an example, because he is not "reformed", and if all of this that JM and his church has allowed, in the Name of the Lord, happened at JOs church, no doubt the "reformed" will be REJOICING and CONDEMNED him!!!

Personally, I think that JM is a very gifted man of God, but what has happened with the Gray case, and his REFUSAL to admit GRAVE UNBIBLICAL ERRORS, does

Key word is ACCUSED.

really undermine his ministry.

TOPIC: How Julie Roys’ Attempted Takedown of John MacArthur is a Battle in a Larger War

Why bring up a case 20 years old and no police evidence of wrong doing?

You did not answer my quetion of what should be done to Macarthur.

 

[electedbyhim]

A decade or longer ago I might have wondered and searched out from his own words what someone's teachings were, and if they lined up with Scripture or not.
Since in the last several decades over a dozen very public figures were shown to be teaching either a false gospel, or serious other error/false teaching/ and publicly were shown to have no sign of repenting or recanting or whatever , I no longer seek out the ones nor listen to the ones who are proclaiming either a false gospel or any false teaching, since it seems (or can you or anyone show otherwise) that the public does not care, and the congregations do not care, that no one cares at all, that can stop the false teachings even if it is a false gospel.

The more popular something false is, the less likely it is to be stopped, in any field of mankind/society/ or the churches.

What is the false teaching?

 

[SolaScriptura]

Key word is ACCUSED.



Why bring up a case 20 years old and no police evidence of wrong doing?

You did not answer my quetion of what should be done to Macarthur.

No police evidence of wrongdoing?

The husband went to jail for MANY YEARS!!!

JM should have been removed from leadership as he has never apologised to the wife!

 

[electedbyhim]

No police evidence of wrongdoing?

The husband went to jail for MANY YEARS!!!

JM should have been removed from leadership as he has never apologised to the wife!

My point is no clergy was not charged with wrongdoing, councelors and the like.

There was also statement out there that the wife lied.

Is a a Pastor responsible for the actions of his congregation, and clergy?

Would a Pastor be responsible for their sins?

JM should have been removed from leadership as he has never apologised to the wife!

Phil Johnson quoted on this...

BTW, John MacArthur doesn’t make a practice of defending himself against false accusations, full-time critics, and slanted hit pieces. He will defend the gospel when some essential truth is under assault, but he prefers to ignore petty personal attacks. Phil Johnson on X

 

[SolaScriptura]

My point is no clergy was not charged with wrongdoing, councelors and the like.

There was also statement out there that the wife lied.

Is a a Pastor responsible for the actions of his congregation, and clergy?

Would a Pastor be responsible for their sins?



Phil Johnson quoted on this...

All you have done in your responses is to defend JM and disregard the facts!

 

[jasonc]

My point is no clergy was not charged with wrongdoing, councelors and the like.

There was also statement out there that the wife lied.

Is a a Pastor responsible for the actions of his congregation, and clergy?

Would a Pastor be responsible for their sins?



Phil Johnson quoted on this...

Slight disagreement,yes as an elder .

If an elder my church falls into sin,the other elders discuss a way a to correct him biblically and doesn't tell the congregation until they act and he responds .this happened last year as an elder was rebuked and left the church.it wasn't said the sin nature only that he choose to leave over repenting.

 

[hawkman]

Moderator note .
1.3: Use self control and focus on reconcilliation when discussing differences. Address the issue, not the person. Do not make derogatory personal remarks or you will be removed from the thread.

 

[tdidymas]

There is a couple different videos out there.

One video where he says is ok gets cut off towards the end, it is not the full video of the conference. I will be searching for that full video at some point.

The second conference video, which is newer, I have watched in full some time ago, Macarthur says it is a sin.

Both videos Macarthur stresses it being a conscience issue and violating the conscience. The second video was more in depth.

I do agree it would be a sin to bake a cake for a gay wedding, also do not agree with Pastor beggs position on the transgender wedding.

Around 2014 or so the hotel I was working for as Executive Chef was sold out for the "gay games" The "games" were held at a hotel in downtown Cleveland, Ohio, so we got the overflow because it was booked completely. The hotel I was at is about 12 miles south of Cleveland. If anyone knows anything about the games, they will know about the debauchery and perversion that goes on.

I remember having a an issue with this if we had to provide food (banquets) for this event. providing food for this crowd would have violated my conscience therefore I would have to resign from my position. Though it turned out that they never had a banquet order and I was grateful.

We also had the log cabin members of the Republican party in 2016 book our hotel for the republican nation convention in Cleveland at the time. They also did not book any banquet events. Looking back at this, if they did book a food event, would that be a sin for me to prepare food for them given thier stance on homosexula and perversion issues? I would have to say it probably would have.

I say all this because it does touch home to me.

Pastor Beggs church is about 5 miles from my house, and I have been there many many times. I have cosidered becoming a member of his church because he is very sound in his preaching. Those comments he has made about the transgender wedding was sinful in my opinion.

There are many churches in my town and the surrounding areas. They are either seeker-friendly, Pentecosta/charismatic, methodist and the like.

I have been to a Baptist church in the area, but the preaching just did nothing for me.

So, it comes down to if I join Pastor Beggs church will it violate my conscience in sin because of his comments that i completely do not agree with?

What do others believe on this decision I am going through.

I apologize that I went off on a tangent.

What little I have heard from Begg leaves me respecting him. I'm disappointed he would support a gay wedding like that, but I would need to hear the whole conversation to make a judgment about it. Everyone is fallible because we are fallen humans (nobody's perfect). We say this to acknowledge (1 Jn. 1:8) that we are all flawed in some way. I've disagreed with a few things my own pastor has said, but still regard him as a spiritual leader. I take everthing anyone says with a grain of salt, including Begg, MacArthur, Sproul, and every other well-respected leader.

I regard that everything is to be measured by scripture, and the more I know what the Bible says, the more I see how flawed everyone is (and the more I see how much my forgiveness and tolerance of their opinions is necessary). We all have our blind spots, and can't see how we negatively affect other people. As Christians we try our best to discern the truth about the issues of life, and sometimes that is very difficult. The Bible tells me to accept what is good and reject what is bad, and that takes discernment (1 thes. 5:21).

 

[tdidymas]

No police evidence of wrongdoing?

The husband went to jail for MANY YEARS!!!

JM should have been removed from leadership as he has never apologised to the wife!

The evidence presented, which seems extensive, was wholly inadequate. What evidence was presented to a jury that made a guilty verdict? Can you present that evidence? I didn't see any of it in that pile of articles. I saw much hearsay. I saw a confession paper where David allegedly confessed of physical abuse (where is the evidence that shows it was his actual handwriting?). I saw a newspaper article that said he was acquitted of 2 charges of lewd behavior. I didn't see anything that stated exactly what he was convicted of (I wouldn't be surprised if it was attempted murder on the child he tried to suffocate). My point is that there is not enough information to judge what happened, so we aren't competent to judge anyone in this forum. Let's try not to jump to conclusions. We weren't there. We didn't oversee the counsels.

On the other hand, I would disagree with the way GCC handled the case. Such things should be handled privately, rather than airing someone's "dirty laundry" in public, IMO. When Christian leaders have a crassly literal interpretation of scripture, this is the kind of result there is, demanding compliance to an interpretation of a Bible passage while disregarding the needs of people. Nevertheless, it looks apparent that the GCC leaders were convinced that E.G. was lying because of exaggerations. Only God knows, and we may (or may not) find out in the day of judgment.

 

[electedbyhim]

All you have done in your responses is to defend JM and disregard the facts!

Facts?

I do not see you posting court documents and police reports.

I also posted a link to Macarthurs newer conference video on the gay cake thing.

Christian tabloids are facts?

Serioulsy is this all you have, a 20 year old accusation?

You never answered the question.

Does God forgiver and restore?

 

[electedbyhim]

Slight disagreement,yes as an elder .

If an elder my church falls into sin,the other elders discuss a way a to correct him biblically and doesn't tell the congregation until they act and he responds .this happened last year as an elder was rebuked and left the church.it wasn't said the sin nature only that he choose to leave over repenting.

He would rather leave then repent?

Tells you all you need to know about him.

 

[electedbyhim]

What little I have heard from Begg leaves me respecting him. I'm disappointed he would support a gay wedding like that, but I would need to hear the whole conversation to make a judgment about it. Everyone is fallible because we are fallen humans (nobody's perfect). We say this to acknowledge (1 Jn. 1:8) that we are all flawed in some way. I've disagreed with a few things my own pastor has said, but still regard him as a spiritual leader. I take everthing anyone says with a grain of salt, including Begg, MacArthur, Sproul, and every other well-respected leader.

I regard that everything is to be measured by scripture, and the more I know what the Bible says, the more I see how flawed everyone is (and the more I see how much my forgiveness and tolerance of their opinions is necessary). We all have our blind spots, and can't see how we negatively affect other people. As Christians we try our best to discern the truth about the issues of life, and sometimes that is very difficult. The Bible tells me to accept what is good and reject what is bad, and that takes discernment (1 thes. 5:21).

Very well stated.

 

[jasonc]

He would rather leave then repent?

Tells you all you need to know about him.

It was sad ,trust me he was a pastor of a church before moving and big on evangalizing.in no way am I defending him

 

[electedbyhim]

It was sad ,trust me he was a pastor of a church before moving and big on evangalizing.in no way am I defending him

It is sad.

 

[follower]

I used to listen to John MacArthur,what's it called "Grace to You"?.I remember J.M saying stuff that came across as sort of strange.I remember him speaking about the end times,and that he said that he would like to be standing beside Jesus with his own sword to wield.Thats all I'm going to say.

It is awkward as most or all the websites that published the known proven errors of any tele-person
have been censored beyond belief to protect cash flow and the not innocent ones.
Even the transcripts are often unavailable at all, and to get the point , to find the errors, can take a while listening to a lot of middle-talk - non-serious non-helpful .....
the one sure "sign' if someone wants to call it that is
the results in the listeners/ the appearance that they like having their ears tickled and cannot tell when there is an error, even a lief and death error.
But calling out the listeners, the ones posting about the false teachers,
is not only frowned upon, it is all too often simply erased.
Be aware as if your family was in the jungle , be alert, and cling to Jesus' Name and call upon Jesus.
The errors then are made clear in the light of His Grace,
and almost a surprise that anyone is tricked by them (except it is just as Jesus Says it would be today).

 

[follower]

so you are saying that what is on the web, because it is on the web, and exposes JM for his UNBIBLICAL treating of Eileen Gray, is wrong? There are many credible videos and articles that show him to be VERY WRONG!

Yes, or once was. The expose's of religious teachers is censored so much now , and when introduced to forums it is white-washed by tickled ears.

 

[follower]

Search the Web and you will find the truth

Actually that is not always , not today, easy. You have to listen to hours of "fill" to get to the meat of the teaching errors , the proof of the errors is surrounded by double-talk almost all the time, and then explained away by tickled ears.
However, no one abiding in Jesus should be anxious about this - if anyone abiding in Jesus rests and trusts in Jesus, first of all they won't listen to the other voices , no, they will listen to Jesus' Voice and be led where Jesus wants them.
Then, as always, if listening to any tv or radio or web , TEST ALWAYS, TEST EVERYTHING, PRAYING CONSTANTLY.... and the sins and the errors of the false teachers and false prophets will not get stuck in your heart but will roll off you like water off a duck's back.