JOHN MACARTHUR

[Gregory]

Just saw a video of John MacArthur.
He looks badly.
He must have something a little serious.

Anyone know anything??

i know he had 4 stints put in his heart and they had to replace his auora valve and also had to do surgery on one of his lungs and that reduced his lung capacity to 50 percent on that one lung

 

[st_worm2]

For a long time now he has seemed to me to be the leader of the pack against the idea that God communicates His will directly to people by Spirit-to-spirit revelations. I don't know if it qualifies as the unpardonable sin to suggest that people who believe they hear from God may be listening to evil spirits. But it is plausible. Only God knows for sure.

Hello NewLifeinChrist, I believe that the unpardonable sin (blasphemy against the Holy Spirit) is never done in ignorance of the truth. Rather, it's committed by those who (like the Pharisees) fully understand that what they are uttering against the Spirit is a lie, a lie that requires such an utterly cold, black heart to commit that those who commit it could care less that they are doing so.

So, for MacArthur (or anyone else) to simply make "the suggestion" that people who believe that they are hearing from God "may be" hearing from Satan or a demon instead, is something that wouldn't qualify as a blasphemy, much less as the unpardonable sin in the Bible.

We do, after all, have Biblical warnings about Satan (e.g. that he can appear to us as "an angel of light" .. 2 Cor 11:14, and will try to deceive us, if possible), as well examples of the very thing that MacArthur is talking about occurring fairly recently in real life. For instance, a few years ago theologian Gleason Archer, who was fluent in the language that was being shouted in tongues from the pulpit one Sunday (by a longtime member of his congregation), refused to repeat what he heard that morning because, rather than praises/truth/thanksgiving about/given to the Godhead, the words that his fellow congregant was uttering in the service were actually extreme blasphemies against the Holy Spirit, instead

God bless you!!

--David

 

[JLB]

So, for MacArthur (or anyone else) to simply make "the suggestion" that people who believe that they are hearing from God "may be" hearing from Satan or a demon instead, is something that wouldn't qualify as a blasphemy, much less as the unpardonable sin in the Bible.

If agree with the above.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Hello NewLifeinChrist, I believe that the unpardonable sin (blasphemy against the Holy Spirit) is never done in ignorance of the truth. Rather, it's committed by those who (like the Pharisees) fully understand that what they are uttering against the Spirit is a lie, a lie that requires such an utterly cold, black heart to commit that those who commit it could care less that they are doing so.

So, for MacArthur (or anyone else) to simply make "the suggestion" that people who believe that they are hearing from God "may be" hearing from Satan or a demon instead, is something that wouldn't qualify as a blasphemy, much less as the unpardonable sin in the Bible.

We do, after all, have Biblical warnings about Satan (e.g. that he can appear to us as "an angel of light" .. 2 Cor 11:14, and will try to deceive us, if possible), as well examples of the very thing that MacArthur is talking about occurring fairly recently in real life. For instance, a few years ago theologian Gleason Archer, who was fluent in the language that was being shouted in tongues from the pulpit one Sunday (by a longtime member of his congregation), refused to repeat what he heard that morning because, rather than praises/truth/thanksgiving about/given to the Godhead, the words that his fellow congregant was uttering in the service were actually extreme blasphemies against the Holy Spirit, instead

God bless you!!

--David

Gleason Leonard Archer Jr. (May 22, 1916 – April 27, 2004)

Seems like he would have had an obligation to speak up and call out his fellow congregant. I wasn't referring to incidents like this. I'll need to do some research to find some MacArthur quotes that are disturbing to me.

 

[JLB]

If agree with the above.

I agree not If agree.

Sorry.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Gleason Leonard Archer Jr. (May 22, 1916 – April 27, 2004)

Seems like he would have had an obligation to speak up and call out his fellow congregant. I wasn't referring to incidents like this. I'll need to do some research to find some MacArthur quotes that are disturbing to me.

It was not hard to find this article, which quotes JM and reveals his animus towards hearing, listening to, and following God as He leads, guides, directs, corrects, and comforts us from the intimacy of our own hearts. The fact that he doesn't know about the Holy Spirit's interractions with us is concerning, but his preaching against God's leadership from within people's hearts and his encouragement for people to ignore Him is very troubling. Does it rise to the level of blasphemy? That's not for me to decide. But I am praying for him to see the error of his ways.

 

[GodsGrace]

i know he had 4 stints put in his heart and they had to replace his auora valve and also had to do surgery on one of his lungs and that reduced his lung capacity to 50 percent on that one lung

Dangerous at his age and difficult to recuperate.
They gave him a choice:
he was headed for death so did he want to take a chance with the surgery?

Two doctors wanted to put a pacemaker in my husband after he got sick.
He refused.
No use to hang on to life.

Death is not the worst thing.

 

[GodsGrace]

It was not hard to find this article, which quotes JM and reveals his animus towards hearing, listening to, and following God as He leads, guides, directs, corrects, and comforts us from the intimacy of our own hearts. The fact that he doesn't know about the Holy Spirit's interractions with us is concerning, but his preaching against God's leadership from within people's hearts and his encouragement for people to ignore Him is very troubling. Does it rise to the level of blasphemy? That's not for me to decide. But I am praying for him to see the error of his ways.

New Life....
Reformed/Calvinist theology is blasphemous and I'll explain why.

In reformed theology it's taught that God created everything and causes everything to happen.
He predestined every single act that man makes,,,,,,including sin.

Now, of course, the Confessions state that God predestined everything EXCEPT sin....but then that wouldn't be everything, would it??

John Calvin taught that God predestined even sin.

This teaching is attributing to God the works of satan.

And this is what blasphemy is.
Matthew 12:31-32
31 "Therefore * I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
32 "Whoever * speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever * speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

New Life....
Reformed/Calvinist theology is blasphemous and I'll explain why.

In reformed theology it's taught that God created everything and causes everything to happen.
He predestined every single act that man makes,,,,,,including sin.

Now, of course, the Confessions state that God predestined everything EXCEPT sin....but then that wouldn't be everything, would it??

John Calvin taught that God predestined even sin.

This teaching is attributing to God the works of satan.

And this is what blasphemy is.
Matthew 12:31-32
31 "Therefore * I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
32 "Whoever * speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever * speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

I heard many years ago that John Calvin was actually a 4-point Calvinist, but I never researched it.

 

[st_worm2]

Gleason Leonard Archer Jr. (May 22, 1916 – April 27, 2004)

Seems like he would have had an obligation to speak up and call out his fellow congregant. I wasn't referring to incidents like this. I'll need to do some research to find some MacArthur quotes that are disturbing to me.

Thanks for sharing this. I had forgotten how long ago Dr. Archer died (so the event I was referring to happened more than just a few years ago).

BTW, he did speak up that day, he just wouldn't interpret (or in his case, translate) what he heard because he didn't want to repeat it out loud during a church service. He did stand up, put his hands up and called out to stop it from continuing.

Just FYI, he was professor of Hebrew and OT studies at TEDS (Trinity Evangelical Divinity School), but what is amazing about him in a slightly different way was that he was fluent in 60 languages, the last one being Icelandic (which he said was his favorite modern/spoken language of all).

--David

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Thanks for sharing this. I had forgotten how long ago Dr. Archer died (so the event I was referring to happened more than just a few years ago).

BTW, he did speak up that day, he just wouldn't interpret (or in his case, translate) what he heard because he didn't want to repeat it out loud during a church service. He did stand up, put his hands up and called out to stop it from continuing.

Just FYI, he was professor of Hebrew and OT studies at TEDS (Trinity Evangelical Divinity School), but what is amazing about him in a slightly different way was that he was fluent in 60 languages, the last one being Icelandic (which he said was his favorite modern/spoken language of all).

--David

Yes, I noticed the TEDS reference. Kind of surprising, honestly. I visited the school one time with a friend who eventually enrolled, but I never associated them with speaking in tongues.

Also, it seems like I have heard the story you referenced, but I don't think I ever heard a specific name associated with it. Thanks for your additional information. I'm glad he had the conviction to stand up and say something.

 

[st_worm2]

Yes, I noticed the TEDS reference. Kind of surprising, honestly. I visited the school one time with a friend who eventually enrolled, but I never associated them with speaking in tongues.

Also, it seems like I have heard the story you referenced, but I don't think I ever heard a specific name associated with it. Thanks for your additional information. I'm glad he had the conviction to stand up and say something.

TEDS is my denomination's seminary (the Evangelical Free Church of America). We take a neutral stance on certain, often controversial issues in the church (ones that can be well-supported by Scripture on both sides, of course), as adiaphora, so we allow our local congregations and our individual congregants to believe as they feel led to believe by the HS about these particular issues (and one such issue concerns the gifts of the Spirit and whether or not they are still fully active, have ceased, in part, or have ceased altogether).

This drives those who are zealots (for one side or the other) a bit crazy, of course, but on the whole, it has allowed us, who are brothers/sisters in Christ, to discuss these controversial issues more lovingly, reasonably and rationally than I have ever seen or experienced elsewhere, ESPECIALLY out here in Christian Cyberland where we always seem to want toover them.

The SBC has recently begun to do the same (take a neutral position on some of these controversial beliefs/issues) too, just FYI. After all, the only reason that they are and have continued to be "controversial" beliefs is because they can be supported pretty well from both sides by the Scriptures.

As far as what Dr. Archer did, I believe that it's happened elsewhere, as well, including awhile back in one of the AoG churches near my home (if memory serves).

God bless you!!

--David

 

[jasonc]

TEDS is my denomination's seminary (the Evangelical Free Church of America). We take a neutral stance on certain, often controversial issues in the church (ones that can be well-supported by Scripture on both sides, of course), as adiaphora, so we allow our local congregations and our individual congregants to believe as they feel led to believe by the HS about these particular issues (and one such issue concerns the gifts of the Spirit and whether or not they are still fully active, have ceased, in part, or have ceased altogether).

This drives those who are zealots (for one side or the other) a bit crazy, of course, but on the whole, it has allowed us, who are brothers/sisters in Christ, to discuss these controversial issues more lovingly, reasonably and rationally than I have ever seen or experienced elsewhere, ESPECIALLY out here in Christian Cyberland where we always seem to want toover them.

The SBC has recently begun to do the same (take a neutral position on some of these controversial beliefs/issues) too, just FYI. After all, the only reason that they are and have continued to be "controversial" beliefs is because they can be supported pretty well from both sides by the Scriptures.

As far as what Dr. Archer did, I believe that it's happened elsewhere, as well, including awhile back in one of the AoG churches near my home (if memory serves).

God bless you!!

--David

my pastor sees much of that as not a hill to die on .he is reformed and a cessationist,amil.but has worshipped those that disagreed .we rent our sanctuary to a Spanish speaking pentacostal church led by a woman and are joined to them at the hip.

 

[st_worm2]

John Calvin taught that God predestined even sin. This teaching is attributing to God the works of satan.

Hello GodsGrace, I know that Reformed theology (not just Calvin, IOW), teaches that God has "ordained" whatsoever comes to pass. This would, of course, include the sins and trespasses of both men and (fallen) angels.

However, the ordination spoken of by the Reformers does not mean that God is the proximate "cause" of everything that happens (which is especially true in regard to moral evils like sin). Rather, He typically ALLOWS fallen creatures the freedom to choose what they want/want to do (which includes our choice to sin). If He did not so, our wills would not be free, yes?

That said, NOTHING happens in this world without God knowing about it and ordaining it, before it happens (and in the case of sin/moral evil, His ordaining of our choices to sin means that He has allowed them to happen, NOT that He has, in any way, ~caused~ them to happen).

I've never read or heard of anything like this from Calvin or any of the other Reformers, but if you have read something from Calvin that seems to say this (that God CAUSES or FORCES us to sin), please point it out to me/us, because, if true, we need to know it and be able to point it out to others too ... (as a bit of an aside, one thing that I've learned from the little bit that I've read of Calvin's works is this, that it is unwise to take what he says out-of-context, as it often is with many other authors, if you really want to know what they mean).

edit: I forgot, there is a group who call themselves Calvinists, but who regular 5-point Calvinists reject and call "Hyper-Calvinists" instead. Apparently, these folks (Hyper-Calvinists, that is) DO believe that God is the proximate cause of EVERYTHING that happens, EVEN moral evils.

Thanks

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - just FYI, many who knew Calvin, even some who were his enemies (at least theologically speaking anyway), had great regard for him and what he taught. If you'd care to read it, here's a positive-sounding quote about John Calvin from a surprising source indeed, Jacobus Arminius, who wrote:

“…after the reading of Scripture, which I strenuously inculcate, and more than any other (as the whole Academy, yea the conscience of my colleagues will testify) I recommend that the Commentaries of Calvin be read, whom I extol in higher terms than Helmichius himself, as he owned to me, ever did.​

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For I affirm that in the interpretation of the Scriptures Calvin is incomparable, and that his Commentaries are more to be valued than anything that is handed down to us in the Bibliotheca of the Fathers; so much so, that I concede to him a certain spirit of prophecy in which he stands distinguished above all others, above most, yea above all. His Institutes, so far as respects Commonplaces, I give out to be read after the Catechism, as a more extended explanation. But here I add – with , as the writing of all men ought to be read.” ~Jacobus Arminius​

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