Bible Study John the Baptist ?

[GodsGrace]

John the Baptist was a Jewish prophet under the old covenant being the forerunner of Christ preaching a baptism of only repentance, not the Holy Spirit as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit had not yet come, Luke 3:1-18, so no, John was not a Christian, but a faithful servant called of God. No Jew has ever been called a Christian, not even the 12 disciples/Apostles or even Paul.

Acts 12:26 the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. The disciples in Antioch were Gentiles, not the 12 disciples, who accepted the teachings of the Apostles of Christ who were scattered abroad to teach as they established the church (body of Christ) in Cyprus, Cyrene and Antioch after that of Stephens death, Acts 11:19. The Gentiles were the first ones to be called Christians, Isaiah 62:2; 65:15

A disciple is one who follows after the teachings of the Gospel taught to the Jew first and then to the Gentiles, Romans 1:16. An Apostle is one who is first indwelled with the Holy Spirit then is sent out by God for the purpose of Gods mission of spreading the Gospel, Matthew 28:16-20; 1Corinthians chapter 12.

All you say is true FHG
But wouldn't you say that once the term Christian came into use, we'd also have to call the original 12 Apostles, as well as everyone else who believed Jesus is God, a Christian?

To continue to call them Jews would not properly represent what they believed to be the truth about the Lord.
The first generation of converts were called Jewish Christians, but they still were identified as Christian.

W

 

[twinc]

A piece of paper doesn't mean much twinc.

It's what you believe that makes you a Christian or not.
The real question is this:
Do you believe Jesus is God, as in Yahweh
Or
Do you believe He is the Son of God given authority by Yahweh to be the awaited Messiah?

If you believe the first, you can call yourself a Christian. A little Christ. We understand Christ to be God, Yahweh.
If you believe the second, you are still saved under the blood of Messiah, but you cannot call yourself a Christian.

Wondering

 

[twinc]

wondering - Jesus Christ is alpha and omega = God from God, of one being with the Father and the Resurrection and life - twinc

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering - Jesus Christ is alpha and omega = God from God, of one being with the Father and the Resurrection and life - twinc

Aha.
I see.
I understand.

W

 

[smaller]

but he was full of the HS and sinless from his mother's womb - btw it seems the true significance or purpose for Pentecost has not really been grasped e.g.did it really change non Christians into Christians and/or forgive sins or make them sinless - etc

Where did you derive that from? Scripture presents no such thing. No man other than Christ, God Himself, was "sinless" in the flesh.

John the baptist saw what he saw, and did what he did by Divine Order. But he did not see perfectly, as Christ, the Word made flesh saw. How do we know that John did not see clearly? Read:

Matt. 11:
2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?

The above after ALL that John had done, knowing Jesus probably from his youth, baptising Him, turning numbers of people of Israel to repent, etc etc. Yet he still "questioned" whether or not Jesus was "he that should come."

4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

John the baptist shows us many Spiritual things. One of those things is BLINDNESS in prison. If you don't understand what this means, it is a picture of all of us, blinded by sin in the flesh. Yes, even one so great as John the baptist.

Blessed are those to whom Jesus speaks truthfully. They will not take offense at being called a sinner. Upon those who smote their own chest, knowing this, "God be merciful to me, A SINNER," and asking Gods Mercy in Christ upon them, it is these who go to their house, JUSTIFIED. Luke 18:10-14

Even John, speaking by the Holy Spirit, knew that he himself needed baptizing by Jesus.

Matthew 3:14
But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

There are many Spiritual matters to observe, with John the baptist. And yes, some even not very flattering to John and hard to perceive. John himself was after a fashion, a hypocrite when he pointed out the "sin" of Herod. It was for this that John was put in prison, and it cost him his flesh head. And it was therein, in prison, that John was also shown to be blinded to Jesus, a bit anyway.

The price of hypocrisy can be high for the "religious" flesh man's head.

 

[Douglas Summers]

is it in the bible that John the Baptist was a Christian ? - wincam

John the Baptist was the last of the OT Saints. The word "Christian" refers to the Church alone. The birth of the Church is explained in the Acts of The Apostles, and the first fruits of the work of Christ upon our Cross.

 

[twinc]

Where did you derive that from? Scripture presents no such thing. No man other than Christ, God Himself, was "sinless" in the flesh.

John the baptist saw what he saw, and did what he did by Divine Order. But he did not see perfectly, as Christ, the Word made flesh saw. How do we know that John did not see clearly? Read:

Matt. 11:
2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?

The above after ALL that John had done, knowing Jesus probably from his youth, baptising Him, turning numbers of people of Israel to repent, etc etc. Yet he still "questioned" whether or not Jesus was "he that should come."

4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

John the baptist shows us many Spiritual things. One of those things is BLINDNESS in prison. If you don't understand what this means, it is a picture of all of us, blinded by sin in the flesh. Yes, even one so great as John the baptist.

Blessed are those to whom Jesus speaks truthfully. They will not take offense at being called a sinner. Upon those who smote their own chest, knowing this, "God be merciful to me, A SINNER," and asking Gods Mercy in Christ upon them, it is these who go to their house, JUSTIFIED. Luke 18:10-14

Even John, speaking by the Holy Spirit, knew that he himself needed baptizing by Jesus.

Matthew 3:14
But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

There are many Spiritual matters to observe, with John the baptist. And yes, some even not very flattering to John and hard to perceive. John himself was after a fashion, a hypocrite when he pointed out the "sin" of Herod. It was for this that John was put in prison, and it cost him his flesh head. And it was therein, in prison, that John was also shown to be blinded to Jesus, a bit anyway.

The price of hypocrisy can be high for the "religious" flesh man's head.

 

[twinc]

re the fact that John questioned the fact "are ye the one that is to come or look we for another" - it seems here as elsewhere you do not know and do not care that you do not know

 

[smaller]

re the fact that John questioned the fact "are ye the one that is to come or look we for another" - it seems here as elsewhere you do not know and do not care that you do not know

John the baptist being filled with the Holy Ghost from his womb does not equate his flesh to being sinless. There is the error in judgment.

No one is sinless in the flesh other than God in Christ, Himself, while He was in pre-ressurection flesh, but no one else had that, prior or since.

That's why I asked you about where that idea came from.

 

[Jim Parker]

is it in the bible that John the Baptist was a Christian ? - wincam

NO
There were no Christians until after Jesus' death, resurrection, ascension to the right hand of the Father and the sending of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost.
John the Baptist was dead before any of that happened.

 

[twinc]

so then were His disciples not Christians and were they baptising with the baptism of John and what exactly was the significance and the work of the HS as specified by Jesus - twinc

 

[for_his_glory]

You don't believe Paul was a Christian?

Was Paul not a Jew by birth even though he was a Roman citizen? Paul was an Apostle just like the twelve Apostles that were Jews. Refer back to post #18 of who a Christian is as defined in scripture.

 

[GodsGrace]

so then were His disciples not Christians and were they baptising with the baptism of John and what exactly was the significance and the work of the HS as specified by Jesus - twinc

As I'm sure you very well know Twinc, Jesus' apostles were baptizing in the name of the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit, as commanded by Jesus in Mathew 28:19

John the Baptist said what the change would be:
Mathew 3:11

Jesus also did:
Acts 1:5

Also, as you must know, Jesus' disciples were Jewish. Then they became Jewish Christians, then the term was changed to Christian in Antioch about 10 years after Jesus' death.

"ian" means belonging to, being on the side of. Christians belong to Christ, they are on Christ's side.

John baptized for the repentance of sin.
The Apostles baptized for the receiving, or indwelling, of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit has a specific work.
He is our paraclete - staying close to us to direct our walk
He is our helper
He helps us to understand God's Word
He directs us toward God
He is our comforter
He convicts us of sin.

Wondering

 

[twinc]

As I'm sure you very well know Twinc, Jesus' apostles were baptizing in the name of the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit, as commanded by Jesus in Mathew 28:19

John the Baptist said what the change would be:
Mathew 3:11

Jesus also did:
Acts 1:5

Also, as you must know, Jesus' disciples were Jewish. Then they became Jewish Christians, then the term was changed to Christian in Antioch about 10 years after Jesus' death.

"ian" means belonging to, being on the side of. Christians belong to Christ, they are on Christ's side.

John baptized for the repentance of sin.
The Apostles baptized for the receiving, or indwelling, of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit has a specific work.
He is our paraclete - staying close to us to direct our walk
He is our helper
He helps us to understand God's Word
He directs us toward God
He is our comforter
He convicts us of sin.

Wondering

 

[Free]

John the Baptist was a Jewish prophet under the old covenant being the forerunner of Christ preaching a baptism of only repentance, not the Holy Spirit as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit had not yet come, Luke 3:1-18, so no, John was not a Christian, but a faithful servant called of God. No Jew has ever been called a Christian, not even the 12 disciples/Apostles or even Paul.

Acts 12:26 the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. The disciples in Antioch were Gentiles, not the 12 disciples, who accepted the teachings of the Apostles of Christ who were scattered abroad to teach as they established the church (body of Christ) in Cyprus, Cyrene and Antioch after that of Stephens death, Acts 11:19. The Gentiles were the first ones to be called Christians, Isaiah 62:2; 65:15

In Antioch (Acts 11:26) were Barnabas and Saul (Paul), both Jews, and they were clearly among those who were called Christians. In Acts 26:28, we see King Agrippa, a Jew, understanding that Paul was using his opportunity to defend himself as a chance to witness, trying to convince the king to become a Christian. Notice that Paul doesn't respond that only Gentiles can be Christians, but rather that "I would to God that not only you but also all who hear me this day might become such as I am" (ESV). So not only does King Agrippa recognize that anyone who follows Jesus is a Christian, but Paul, in his response, implies that he is.

Not once in Scripture is there any such distinction made that only Gentiles are Christians, nor are there any grounds for saying none of the twelve "has ever been called a Christian."

As for Isa. 62:2, that has nothing to do with the matter; it is clearly speaking about Zion. Isa. 65:15 says nothing to support your point either.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

If your worried or wondering about John the Baptist, consider what we know about him through the bible. Before John's birth, his father one of the priests in the temple received a vision that he would have a child. The father, already an old man, did not believe the Angel, so the angel talking to him stopped his ability to speak until John was born. This is a sign both for that day and for today regarding John. Then while still in his mother's womb, John's mom is visited by Jesus's mom (while Jesus was in her womb.) John's mother felt the leap for joy and told Mary, Jesus's mom, great things about her son. This must have been an encouragement for Mary, and I've heard a sermon that this is possibly a very needed encouragement for Mary, because she was pregnet and not by her husband, there's bound to be some gossip and rumors about that. Whether that part's true or not though, Mary received a sign from God concerning her son, from the womb where John the Baptist was.

The third part we hear about John is after he has started his ministry, to tell people to repent, turn from their sins and turn to God. At that time John also prophesied that someone greater then him would come soon and spoke about Jesus. When John sees Jesus, he recoginized Him to be the one God oromised about. Even after this John continued his ministry and many of those who followed John then went to follow Jesus.

Up to this point it can be thought that John was a believer in Jesus as much as anyone could be at that time. It's after this that John's thoughts on Jesus come into question. When John was in prison and send some of his followers to ask if Jesus was the Messiah, or if they should wait for another. This doubt could have been John's even after his own faith shown early on there are at least a few theories why he would have some doubt. On is that Jesus came not as a military man to take Isreal from the Romans, as was possibly the hope at that time. Or it could have been because of the fate John was in, being in prison and possibly having lost hope. It would not be the first time a prophet cried out to God and needed reassurance. The other possibility is that John sent his messengers to find out about Jesus not because John doubted, but because those he taught doubted, and this was to lay any doubts, his own or other's doubts to rest.

Being a Christian who has had his faith shaken by the events in my own life at least once, I can relate to either reason for John to send his messengers to question Jesus. Even after John died, Jesus spoke well of him saying that he was the greatest man among all men, though Jesus also compaired John to be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. These are still highly spoken words about John.

Given these events, is there any reason to worry about John's fate? Jesus is the word of God, and John the Baptist was a prophet who spoke what God told Him to say. Given that alone, I'd wager there's more to the relationship between John and Jesus and that John was as much a believer, saved, and in the protection from God as any prophet was, and as even the Apstoles were.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

As for John not sinning. Prophets sinned too you know. Look at the story of Jonah, who ran from the place God told him to go and reliever his message. Even after Jonah taught the people and they repented, Jonah was angry because in his prideful moment this meant that God was not going to deliver the harm that Jonah warned about. His message would not make him a great prophet with signs or anything. So take heart that prophets of the old Testiment still faught with sin and we're not sinless, why should we think John was different and didn't need Jesus like the rest of us need Jesus.

 

[twinc]

as we should first note this was not applied to us and secondly this is what you and others have concluded from what Jesus said - please read again

If your worried or wondering about John the Baptist, consider what we know about him through the bible. Before John's birth, his father one of the priests in the temple received a vision that he would have a child. The father, already an old man, did not believe the Angel, so the angel talking to him stopped his ability to speak until John was born. This is a sign both for that day and for today regarding John. Then while still in his mother's womb, John's mom is visited by Jesus's mom (while Jesus was in her womb.) John's mother felt the leap for joy and told Mary, Jesus's mom, great things about her son. This must have been an encouragement for Mary, and I've heard a sermon that this is possibly a very needed encouragement for Mary, because she was pregnet and not by her husband, there's bound to be some gossip and rumors about that. Whether that part's true or not though, Mary received a sign from God concerning her son, from the womb where John the Baptist was.

The third part we hear about John is after he has started his ministry, to tell people to repent, turn from their sins and turn to God. At that time John also prophesied that someone greater then him would come soon and spoke about Jesus. When John sees Jesus, he recoginized Him to be the one God oromised about. Even after this John continued his ministry and many of those who followed John then went to follow Jesus.

Up to this point it can be thought that John was a believer in Jesus as much as anyone could be at that time. It's after this that John's thoughts on Jesus come into question. When John was in prison and send some of his followers to ask if Jesus was the Messiah, or if they should wait for another. This doubt could have been John's even after his own faith shown early on there are at least a few theories why he would have some doubt. On is that Jesus came not as a military man to take Isreal from the Romans, as was possibly the hope at that time. Or it could have been because of the fate John was in, being in prison and possibly having lost hope. It would not be the first time a prophet cried out to God and needed reassurance. The other possibility is that John sent his messengers to find out about Jesus not because John doubted, but because those he taught doubted, and this was to lay any doubts, his own or other's doubts to rest.

Being a Christian who has had his faith shaken by the events in my own life at least once, I can relate to either reason for John to send his messengers to question Jesus. Even after John died, Jesus spoke well of him saying that he was the greatest man among all men, though Jesus also compaired John to be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. These are still highly spoken words about John.

Given these events, is there any reason to worry about John's fate? Jesus is the word of God, and John the Baptist was a prophet who spoke what God told Him to say. Given that alone, I'd wager there's more to the relationship between John and Jesus and that John was as much a believer, saved, and in the protection from God as any prophet was, and as even the Apstoles were.

 

[twinc]

the real reason why John did not recognise Jesus was Jesus disappeared from the scene from the age of 12 to 30 and even the tax collectors demanded He pay the 'strangers' tax - did those feet in ancient times walk on England's mountains green and was the holy Lamb of God on England's pleasant pastures seen

 

[GodsGrace]

the real reason why John did not recognise Jesus was Jesus disappeared from the scene from the age of 12 to 30 and even the tax collectors demanded He pay the 'strangers' tax - did those feet in ancient times walk on England's mountains green and was the holy Lamb of God on England's pleasant pastures seen

Hi Twinc

For someone who asks a lot of questions, you sure do know a lot of things.

W