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Justification by Faith

Papa Zoom said:
You don't "know" it you just believe it to be true. Your claim that you know is just that, a claim. It's unconvincing. There are plenty of knowledgeable people on the other side of the debate that "know" too. You deny that they know the true but claim you do. That smacks of arrogance to me.


I don't think I put anything that way. Besides, I don't know to what you are referring exactly.


Because we strongly believe it to be the case and have no reason to doubt the belief.


No. We cannot know all things. That an unbiblical position. We know in part. We're fallable. Only God knows fully about all things. What you just said is logically incoherent.


This makes no sense. How does God tell you something? Does He whisper it to you? Or does He simply speak to you through the Word?
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Think about it Papa. You are stating something as fact, in which you absolutely deny that something else is a fact. Why is your fact correct, but the other one is not? It's the same argument you are making.

I do not deny that someone else knows the truth. I only deny the fact that I don't. It's an assumption on the part of others that state because I know the truth, that I 'think' others do not. I do not say that.

I know the truth, I have no doubt. Just because someone does not agree with me does not mean I do not know the truth.

I really think half the time this argument is made is because others have some doubt to what they believe so they want to drag others down.

What I want to say is that it's possible to know the truth and it's possible to have no doubt. There is a lot of comfort in that.
 
Papa Zoom said:
I know things that are opposite of what you know. Therefore you are wrong and I am right.

What a silly notion.
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Ok.

I will only say it's silly when someone says the other person cannot know the truth. You can know the truth just as well as I do.
 
Nathan said:
Ok.

I will only say it's silly when someone says the other person cannot know the truth. You can know the truth just as well as I do.
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Mormons know the truth as do Muslims. Atheists know the truth too. The know it. They will claim they have no doubt.

So what. Such claims are meaningless.

When it comes to OSAS, you only think you know the truth. Because I "know" the opposite. So do most Reformed thinkers.

You claim to "know" the truth? Well so do I and what I "know" shows you to be wrong. And my position comes straight from God's word.

Oh oh

That's your claim too.

I've got an idea. Let's state our claim 1000 more times and see who wears out first. Or we could Rock Paper Scissors. :lol
 
Papa Zoom said:
Mormons know the truth as do Muslims. Atheists know the truth too. The know it. They will claim they have no doubt.

So what. Such claims are meaningless.

When it comes to OSAS, you only think you know the truth. Because I "know" the opposite. So do most Reformed thinkers.

You claim to "know" the truth? Well so do I and what I "know" shows you to be wrong. And my position comes straight from God's word.

Oh oh

That's your claim too.

I've got an idea. Let's state our claim 1000 more times and see who wears out first. Or we could Rock Paper Scissors. :lol
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That's not my claim. It's your claim about me. :).

Why denegrate another based on what you believe? It's interesting, the more I talk about this subject, the more I find the OSAS side negating the other side based on personal things.

I have stated it more than once. I do not think I am the only one who knows the truth about salvation. There are others who do, and I know that anyone can.
 
Nathan said:
That's not my claim. It's your claim about me. :).

Why denegrate another based on what you believe? It's interesting, the more I talk about this subject, the more I find the OSAS side negating the other side based on personal things.

I have stated it more than once. I do not think I am the only one who knows the truth about salvation. There are others who do, and I know that anyone can.
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We both can't be right
 
Nathan said:
No, I do not really. No more than you would have to admit your possibility of being wrong that Jesus is the Son of God to an atheist.
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Well there's a cop out. The two have nothing to do with each other. I'm going to assume that you wouldn't admit the possibility of being wrong about anything since this is the second time you've dodged this question. It's pointless now.
 
Papa Zoom said:
Well there's a cop out. The two have nothing to do with each other. I'm going to assume that you wouldn't admit the possibility of being wrong about anything since this is the second time you've dodged this question. It's pointless now.
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I see no need to attack Papa.

I am not dodging any question. I do not have to admit I am wrong. I am not wrong. Why would I admit to something that I know is not true? Would you like me to lie? I am not wrong about what I know to be true. I will freely admit to the possibility of being wrong in other things, but there are some things I know I am not wrong in. So to say I could be wrong would be denying what I know.

Why is there such a need for me to deny what I know? If you feel like you could possibly be wrong, why does that mean I have to be?
 
Think about it. Seriously. Just take a moment and think.

If a die hard atheist came up to you and demanded you admit that you could be wrong about Jesus being God's chosen Son - would you admit that you could be wrong? What if he was truly sincere in that he honestly believed that there is no God. Does his sincerity not account for the same sincerity we are talking about?

I would not for a moment agree to the fact I could be wrong about Jesus. So if I am as sure of Him being the Christ, as I am about salvation, why would I not hold to the same stance?
 
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