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Justification by Faith

Nathan said:
I do not know. You quoted my post, then wrote yours in large red type.

If you are just wanting to play games fine. I'm here to be serious.
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Playing games? You asked a question in your post. I answered it and now you apparently went off the deep end for some reason.
 
Cygnus said:
Playing games? You asked a question in your post. I answered it and now you apparently went off the deep end for some reason.
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No deep end here. One word conversations are not productive. I was trying to understand what you meant.

How is deception why someone would not want to be in Christ now, but want to be in Him in eternity?
 
Nathan said:
No deep end here. One word conversations are not productive. I was trying to understand what you meant.

How is deception why someone would not want to be in Christ now, but want to be in Him in eternity?
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Because Nathan, if your convinced of something that isn't the truth....deception is at work.
 
Cygnus said:
Deception isn't truth.
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It's not deception. It's what he believes is true. His belief doesn't make it true anymore than yours makes your position true.

Theologians far more knowledgeable than anyone here hold to your position Cygnus. IOW, they agree with your position. The problem is that there are theologians far more knowledgeable than anyone here that disagree with OSAS!

Those that hold to either position and claim "it's true" are just stating their belief. They don't know. They may THINK they know, but they don't. Neither do we. But, we do hold to strong the strong conviction that our position is true.
 
Papa Zoom said:
It's not deception. It's what he believes is true. His belief doesn't make it true anymore than yours makes your position true.

Theologians far more knowledgeable than anyone here hold to your position Cygnus. IOW, they agree with your position. The problem is that there are theologians far more knowledgeable than anyone here that disagree with OSAS!

Those that hold to either position and claim "it's true" are just stating their belief. They don't know. They may THINK they know, but they don't. Neither do we. But, we do hold to strong the strong conviction that our position is true.
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What question are you trying to answer about deception?
 
Papa Zoom said:
It's not deception. It's what he believes is true. His belief doesn't make it true anymore than yours makes your position true.

Theologians far more knowledgeable than anyone here hold to your position Cygnus. IOW, they agree with your position. The problem is that there are theologians far more knowledgeable than anyone here that disagree with OSAS!

Those that hold to either position and claim "it's true" are just stating their belief. They don't know. They may THINK they know, but they don't. Neither do we. But, we do hold to strong the strong conviction that our position is true.
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I know. :)

I have zero doubt.

If a person cannot be sure about one thing, then they cannot be sure about anything.

Can someone believe Jesus is the Christ, yet hold to some doubt He is?

Can someone believe they are justified by faith alone, but hold to some doubt they need to do something more for justification?
 
Cygnus said:
The answer....DECEPTION...seems to be pretty obvious. If you have the truth and decide to no longer accept the truth....you have been deceived.
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Actually, that's not always true.

1 Timothy 2
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve;
14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

Adam knew the truth and chose to deny it. He was not deceived.
 
Nathan said:
I know. :)

I have zero doubt.

If a person cannot be sure about one thing, then they cannot be sure about anything.

Can someone believe Jesus is the Christ, yet hold to some doubt He is?

Can someone believe they are justified by faith alone, but hold to some doubt they need to do something more for justification?
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I have no doubt. That makes it a stalemate. But I'm not so foolish as to believe that there's no way I could be wrong. So it's easier to be gracious towards opposing views.

In regards to Jesus, I've zero doubt. I don't entertain any thoughts I might be wrong. I have no doubts about being justified by faith either.

But this issue before us is different. And it's been argued for years. That won't end anytime soon. And this issue is NOT critical to salvation. People on both sides mischaracterize the views of others and are uncharitable about it. Not good and certainly that attitude violates clear teaching from Scripture. Yet some feel it's okay to behave outside of those teachings while holding on tightly to a contested view all the while citing their favorite verses. A sad state of affairs IMO.
 
Nathan said:
Actually, that's not always true.

1 Timothy 2
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve;
14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

Adam knew the truth and chose to deny it. He was not deceived.
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Are you saying Adam didn't accept the truth?
 
Papa Zoom said:
I have no doubt. That makes it a stalemate. But I'm not so foolish as to believe that there's no way I could be wrong. So it's easier to be gracious towards opposing views.

In regards to Jesus, I've zero doubt. I don't entertain any thoughts I might be wrong. I have no doubts about being justified by faith either.

But this issue before us is different. And it's been argued for years. That won't end anytime soon. And this issue is NOT critical to salvation. People on both sides mischaracterize the views of others and are uncharitable about it. Not good and certainly that attitude violates clear teaching from Scripture. Yet some feel it's okay to behave outside of those teachings while holding on tightly to a contested view all the while citing their favorite verses. A sad state of affairs IMO.
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Interesting. Is it foolish to believe in what you know as the truth? Can a person who knows something as absolute not be gracious?

Just because something is argued for a long time does not mean a person cannot know the truth. It was debated since Jesus came that He is the Christ, yet by your own admission you state you know it to be the truth. Right?

Contending for the truth of the faith is what some are called to do. Some might not see that, but it's true. :)

If the truth can be known, then it can be known about all things. If you cannot know the truth of one thing, then you cannot know the truth of anything.

Knowing the truth about something is different than knowing something. If God tells us something, we can know if it's true or not.
 
Nathan said:
Interesting. Is it foolish to believe in what you know as the truth? Can a person who knows something as absolute not be gracious?
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You don't "know" it you just believe it to be true. Your claim that you know is just that, a claim. It's unconvincing. There are plenty of knowledgeable people on the other side of the debate that "know" too. You deny that they know the true but claim you do. That smacks of arrogance to me.

Just because something is argued for a long time does not mean a person cannot know the truth. It was debated since Jesus came that He is the Christ, yet by your own admission you state you know it to be the truth. Right?
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I don't think I put anything that way. Besides, I don't know to what you are referring exactly.

Contending for the truth of the faith is what some are called to do. Some might not see that, but it's true. :)
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Because we strongly believe it to be the case and have no reason to doubt the belief.

If the truth can be known, then it can be known about all things. If you cannot know the truth of one thing, then you cannot know the truth of anything.
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No. We cannot know all things. That an unbiblical position. We know in part. We're fallable. Only God knows fully about all things. What you just said is logically incoherent.
Knowing the truth about something is different than knowing something. If God tells us something, we can know if it's true or not.
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This makes no sense. How does God tell you something? Does He whisper it to you? Or does He simply speak to you through the Word?
 
I know things that are opposite of what you know. Therefore you are wrong and I am right.

What a silly notion.
 
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