King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it make a difference?

[whirlwind]

[...] That commandment is NOT in the Catholic Bible and yet...they still have ten commandments. How? They split the tenth commandment into two parts, stretching it out to become two separate commandments [...]

Hey, we Lutherans are guilty of the very same. Whirlwind, what is your denomination? Am I right if I guess you're reformed?

I'm non demon-ination.

I study His Word. To me, the best is the KJV used with the Strong's Concordance. It contains the most accurate translation (although it has errors too). All of the new and improved, to me, are farther and farther away from the truth. They have more of man's hand in them...trying to make it easier for us to understand. :nag

There is mention of another...the Ivan Panin Bible. He has an interesting story...google him, you may find it of interest.

 

[Free]

I've about 98% of my life read the ESV and NIV, and hardly ever read the KJV. These newer transaltions absolutely prove the divinity of Christ Jesus, and the trinity.

Really? How do you mean?

Yeah - I find that interesting too. Does the KJV not?

That's not what he is saying. His point is regarding the OP and typical KJVO arguments that newer versions are trying to remove Jesus' deity and references to the Trinity. Not only are those arguments fallacious but the NIV and ESV still clearly uphold and prove the doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[Sakari]

I'm non demon-ination.

Witty wordplay, I liked this one.

I study His Word. To me, the best is the KJV used with the Strong's Concordance. It contains the most accurate translation (although it has errors too). All of the new and improved, to me, are farther and farther away from the truth. They have more of man's hand in them...trying to make it easier for us to understand. :nag

I can endorse here, mutatis mutandis.

There is mention of another...the Ivan Panin Bible. He has an interesting story...google him, you may find it of interest.

Uh... Ivan Panin and numerology... I don't know. Can inspired scripture contain hidden meanings? It's true, of course, that Rev. 13:18 encourages one to study numerology, to some extent at least, but the verse just states something openly. No higher level of scripture is implied, no hidden message is alluded to.

 

[Free]

Uh... Ivan Panin and numerology... I don't know. Can inspired scripture contain hidden meanings?

Panin's numerology been debunked, as has that of others. It seems to me as though it is for those whose faith is weak, needing some sort of hidden scientific proof for the authenticity and inspiration of Scripture.

 

[whirlwind]

I'm non demon-ination.

Witty wordplay, I liked this one.

I study His Word. To me, the best is the KJV used with the Strong's Concordance. It contains the most accurate translation (although it has errors too). All of the new and improved, to me, are farther and farther away from the truth. They have more of man's hand in them...trying to make it easier for us to understand. :nag

I can endorse here, mutatis mutandis.
[quote:3lmijxmm]There is mention of another...the Ivan Panin Bible. He has an interesting story...google him, you may find it of interest.

Uh... Ivan Panin and numerology... I don't know. Can inspired scripture contain hidden meanings? It's true, of course, that Rev. 13:18 encourages one to study numerology, to some extent at least, but the verse just states something openly. No higher level of scripture is implied, no hidden message is alluded to.[/quote:3lmijxmm]


I don't have the Panin bible but it has been recommended by someone I greatly admire. I do know that numbers play a very important role in Scripture.

As far as hidden messages...

• Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

 

[Free]

As far as hidden messages...

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

That in no way means that there are hidden messages in Scripture, much less that there are hidden numerical patterns. That is putting meaning into the text.

 

[whirlwind]

As far as hidden messages...

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

That in no way means that there are hidden messages in Scripture, much less that there are hidden numerical patterns. That is putting meaning into the text.

What does it mean?

 

[jasoncran]

i use the kjv mainly but have reread the verses in the other version as sometimes they word it better.

the only version i dont like is the amplified bible.

jason

 

[Free]

As far as hidden messages...

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

That in no way means that there are hidden messages in Scripture, much less that there are hidden numerical patterns. That is putting meaning into the text.

What does it mean?

It could be speaking of any number of things., such as creation or the nature of God. We cannot say for sure what it means.

 

[whirlwind]

What does it mean?

It could be speaking of any number of things., such as creation or the nature of God. We cannot say for sure what it means.

Or...what it "in no way means?" To conceal a thing is to hide a thing. This concealed thing can be searched out...He wants us to search it out. I don't think I'm "putting meaning into the text."

 

[Free]

My point is that you were proof-texting. So, yes, you are putting a meaning into the text.

Anyway, this is off topic and that's all I'm going to say about it.

 

[MMarc]

I heard a man once say, the best bible is the one you read.

 

[Nick]

Really? How do you mean?

Yeah - I find that interesting too. Does the KJV not?

That's not what he is saying. His point is regarding the OP and typical KJVO arguments that newer versions are trying to remove Jesus' deity and references to the Trinity. Not only are those arguments fallacious but the NIV and ESV still clearly uphold and prove the doctrine of the Trinity.

That's right.

 

[Hobie]

Just because they were not successful in completely wiping out the words showing Jesus' deity, doesnt clear them of the intent. They knew their purpose would be quickly seen if they took it out across the board, but subtle change is always harder to spot.The Majority text keeps any one person or group of persons from making changes that can obscure or drastically change the meaning but if they take it out completely then that causes a real problem as one doesnt even have words to check. Here is what having such large numbers of the Textus Receptus does..

"..THE MAJORITY TEXT PRINCIPLE

If one will place all the texts along side each other and then see the most common words, he will see the truth through the error. One error by one man can never outnumber the truth presented by the majority. Remember that God promised that He would preserve His Word. This is a Biblical principle, as shown in Deuteronomy 19:15, Matthew 18:16 and II Corinthians 13:1.

The Bible way to determine truth is to collect all the witnesses and examine the facts that each one has and trust the things that the majority agree upon. All men at the beginning had the truth. As error began to creep in, a need appeared to find the truth again. As far back as the Syriac text in A. D. 150, this majority text principle was used as the common way to find the truth.

All of the texts were put together and the agreeing words were recorded, and God's Word was considered complete. Textus Receptus is a Latin term meaning: "Text Received", or "Text Approved", or "Text Accepted". This name was placed on the text in 1624 by the first men who put it into print in one volume. In 1624 this was the text that had long been accepted. Prior to that time it was called: The Majority Text. In the preface to the Greek text the publishers wrote: "The text which is now received by all, in which we give nothing altered or corrupt....."

 

[Cornelius]

Uh... Ivan Panin and numerology... I don't know. Can inspired scripture contain hidden meanings?

Panin's numerology been debunked, as has that of others. It seems to me as though it is for those whose faith is weak, needing some sort of hidden scientific proof for the authenticity and inspiration of Scripture.

First, Panin's work is not Numerology. Only the uninformed would call it that. Its Maths. The correct term is Numerics meaning, it has nothing to do with meaning or hidden messages. It is a PATTERN that runs through the Received Text. Through this scientific method, it can be proved that God wrote the Bible and not man. I have no clue why Christians would come against something that actually proves that God wrote the Bible. I guess I leave the reason for that open..........

Secondly it has never been "debunked' because God' Word is perfect. When this method is used in translation, we can then be sure that we get the true Word as intended. It always will show the correct translation, even showing when words must be singular or plural, masculine or feminine .


Here is an example: I am sure any serious student of the Word would answere "YES" if you asked if they thought it important to have the correct translation. The correct translation is 'SHE" , but because of doctrine, its translated as "IT" or "HE" or "JERUSALEM" Its "SHE" because it points to the Bride.


NIV© In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will live in safety. This is the name by which it will be called: The LORD Our Righteousness.'
NAS© In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will dwell in safety; and this is the name by which she will be called: the LORD is our righteousness.'
GWT© In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will live securely. Jerusalem will be called The LORD Our Righteousness.
KJV In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.
AKJ In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name with which she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.
ASV In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely; and this is the name whereby she shall be called: Jehovah our righteousness.
BBE In those days, Judah will have salvation and Jerusalem will be safe: and this is the name which will be given to her: The Lord is our righteousness.
DRB In those days shall Juda be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell securely: and this is the name that they shall call him, The Lord our just one.

 

[Cornelius]

By the way, the American Standard Version is the closest to the Panin Numeric New Testament. The ASV wins by far, because it was not translated by people who wanted to promote their particular doctrine, but it was not well received BECAUSE it was written with no doctrine. The KJV only has pushed that translation almost out of the race.I read it with great comfort that the words are true to the Received Text and if I am not sure, I compare it with the Numeric New Testament. 99% is almost identical.

I guess it depends on how serious we are about getting the correct words as they were meant to be.