What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Legally Saved or Legally Lost

Robert Pate said:
In the judgment everything will be decided by God's law. God is a God of law and judgment.

Paul wrote, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to that which he has done, whether it be good or bad" 2 Corinthians 5:10.

This is the judgment of believers where they will receive rewards for their works, Matthew 6:1-4. Some may lose their reward because they were doing good works for the wrong reasons. Good works should always be done out of a heart full of gratitude and thanksgiving for what Christ has done for us.

There is another judgment known as the "Great White Throne Judgment" Revelation 20:11 This is the judgment of unbelievers. All that were not found in the book of life will be in this judgment. This judgment will be before the believer's judgment because it will determine who is saved and who is lost. Everything will be determined according to God's law. No one will be saved that has not been justified by Jesus Christ. Justification is the results of faith in Christ and his Gospel, Romans 3:28. In a court of law, one will either be justified or condemned. "By the deeds of the law (what we do) no flesh will be justified in his sight" Romans 3:20.

Jesus said, "Many will say to me in that day (judgment day) Lord, Lord, didn't we....?" Matthew 7:21-23. These are people that believe they were saved by their works or obedience to the law. They were not legally saved because they were not justified by Jesus Christ. They rejected the Gospel and justification by faith and were trying to be saved by the deeds of the law (Religion). We must be justified by Jesus Christ or we will not see heaven. In the judgment Jesus will recognize those that are his by his Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is only given to those that hear and believe the Gospel, Galatians 3:2. They are the legally saved.

In the Gospel we are justified, sanctified and redeemed by Jesus Christ and now stand in God's Holy Court as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. "There is no condemnation to them which are in Christ" Romans 8:1. This means that there is condemnation for those that are NOT in Christ. To be "In Christ" means to trust that Jesus Christ has fulfilled the law for you. It also means that Jesus Christ has atoned for your sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. This is why salvation is by faith alone. It is by faith alone because it is by Christ alone. To believe otherwise means that you are not "In Christ" and have not been justified and are legally unsaved.
Click to expand...
Salvation is one of the least understood topics of the Bible Bob. Those who are saved receive the gift that God gives, everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord. Salvation for most of us will be at least another thousand years.
 
wondering said:
Could you please clarify your last paragraph?
Click to expand...
In the Apostles days some said to gentile believers,

Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved. Act.15:1

By disagreeing, Paul was accused of teaching against Moses (Act.21:18-21), but he knew what mattered was circumcision is of the heart (Rom.2:29).
 
journeyman said:
In the Apostles days some said to gentile believers,

Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved. Act.15:1

By disagreeing, Paul was accused of teaching against Moses (Act.21:18-21), but he knew what mattered was circumcision is of the heart (Rom.2:29).
Click to expand...
I know little of church history outside of the Bible, but personally I believe somewhere along the line, people took Pauls' instruction on how, We no longer have to abstain from pork chops to be saved"..... and turned it into, "We no longer have to repent to be saved."

OK. I agree with your present post.
But in the above, are you saying that we DON'T have to repent?
I'm sorry JM, sometimes I could be so thick.

I think you mean that we DO have to repent...
 
Robert Pate said:
And I told you to google Chrislam three times. I don't know anything about Chrislam. The only thing I know is what is on the internet.
Click to expand...
Do not bring up speculations without providing facts and give your source. Hear say is nothing more than misinterpretations. Also provide scripture that supports any points of view as no one is going to take another's word for what they say.
 
wondering said:
This is interesting.
Never heard you say this before.
Could you give an example?
Click to expand...
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Jn.16:2

Our Lord gradually introduced the truth of how his mercy is offered to all sinners and given to anyone who repents. Even to the sin of his murder. Jesus didn't begin his ministry by telling his disciples he would be cruchfied, or that they, like him, would face immense persection.
It's like when God said,

If they face war, they might change their minds and return to Egypt. Exo.13:17

They weren't prepared for war at that time, but later they were.
wondering said:
I have the idea that WE bastardize Paul, not theologians. (Since we all have differing beliefs).
Click to expand...
The Bible doesn't contradict itself.
 
Robert Pate said:
I don't know, nor do I care to know what Chrislam is. All I know is that the pope has embraced Islam and calls it Chrislam. There is tons of information if you will google Chrislam. What do you think I am making this up?
Click to expand...
It's not that you are making this up, but that you have admitted you know nothing about Chrislam and making a speculative statement about the Pope with no support, but only your point of view. It would do you well to go back and read the ToS you are violating.
 
Robert Pate said:
I have ALREADY posted supporting evidence, if you want to see it, google Chrislam. It is all there, pictures and all. Do you really believe that someone would make up a fictitious web site?
Click to expand...
Provide the link or stop claiming something that is only your view. You have no actual website showing that we can go read. This ends here unless you can show support for your claim.
 
wondering said:
I mean, I think I agree but want to make sure before replying.
Click to expand...
I only mean things like the rite of circumcision were meant to show the agreement with God of living by faith in him.
Like partaking of the bread and wine as showing oneness with the broken body and shed blood of Christ. Showing oneness by believers themselves experiencing his sufferings,

for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter. Psa.44:22

Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints. Psa.116:15

the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; Phl.3:10
 
wondering said:
That's what I though.
It was only important to me because it seemed like you were saying something different than what you usually post.
(Not that you can't change your mind - but I didn't think you did)
:thumbsup
Click to expand...
I'm sorry wondering. I didn't mean to imply we are saved by anything other than Jesus' great mercy, by not using Moses' law against sinners.
We aren't legally saved because Jesus died. We're saved because Jesus will forgive even murderers who repent.
 
journeyman said:
I'm sorry wondering. I didn't mean to imply we are saved by anything other than Jesus' great mercy, by not using Moses' law against sinners.
We aren't legally saved because Jesus died. We're saved because Jesus will forgive even murderers who repent.
Click to expand...
Amen to that!
Sometimes we get new members here that feel that they haven't been forgiven and are worried about this.
It's the one thing that the NT guarantees us...no matter how we "feel".
 
wondering said:
Amen to that!
Sometimes we get new members here that feel that they haven't been forgiven and are worried about this.
It's the one thing that the NT guarantees us...no matter how we "feel".
Click to expand...
I know that my friend, but confidence comes from "living by" faith in him.

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 1Jn.3:18-20

A commentary by David Guzik says,

"John assures us that God is greater than our heart, and so reminds us that we cannot base our relationship with Him purely on how we feel in His presence."

But that isn't what John meant. John was admonishing us if our own hearts know when we're doing wrong, so does God.
 
journeyman said:
I know that my friend, but confidence comes from "living by" faith in him.

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 1Jn.3:18-20

A commentary by David Guzik says,

"John assures us that God is greater than our heart, and so reminds us that we cannot base our relationship with Him purely on how we feel in His presence."

But that isn't what John meant. John was admonishing us if our own hearts know when we're doing wrong, so does God.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
Sometimes we feel the Holy Spirit and sometimes we don't.
Even for long periods of time, whatever the reason may be.
But the Holy Spirit dwells within us even if we don't feel His presence.
One of the first things I learned in theology (a few years after being saved) was that we don't go by feelings, but by what we know to be true. And that truth is in the NT.
 
wondering said:
Agreed.
Sometimes we feel the Holy Spirit and
sometimes we don't.
Even for long periods of time, whatever the reason may be.
But the Holy Spirit dwells within us even if we don't feel His presence.
One of the first things I learned in theology (a few years after being saved) was that we don't go by feelings, but by what we know to be true. And that truth is in the NT.
Click to expand...
I agree we must go by what we know is true. I also believe if we do that, our outlook and feelings change to how God sees and feels.
Paul talks about how in "the last days", men will be without "natutal affection."
I believe natural affection are godly feelings all people possess, but can be lost.
 
journeyman said:
I agree we must go by what we know is true. I also believe if we do that, our outlook and feelings change to how God sees and feels.
Paul talks about how in "the last days", men will be without "natutal affection."
I believe natural affection are godly feelings all people possess, but can be lost.
Click to expand...
Absolutely.
We understand better why and how to forgive persons.
We understand why some are so mean so that we can look past it and pay no attention to them whereas before it would upset me.
It seems to me I'm more patient with people and am more willing to help.
Ok. That's enough!
😇
 
wondering said:
Absolutely.
We understand better why and how to forgive persons.
We understand why some are so mean so that we can look past it and pay no attention to them whereas before it would upset me.
It seems to me I'm more patient with people and am more willing to help.
Ok. That's enough!
😇
Click to expand...
The way I see it is everybody is of infinite value to God because Jesus shed his blood for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. Therefore everyone should be respected.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top