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Let's talk about homosexuality (again!)

I dunno 🤷‍♂️


I try to be tolerant of my inclinations…to a point. Sexual behavior much more so than inclination or desire seems to be the focus of much of Paul’s writing on Christian morality….
 
I love how someone new always comes in and leaves a comment setting the discussion back to the beginning point

I have explained this ad nauseam. I don't know why I bother.
 
Gods word is powerful.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
 
I love how someone new always comes in and leaves a comment setting the discussion back to the beginning point

I have explained this ad nauseam. I don't know why I bother.
i-regret-nothing-house.gif
 
I don't know how many times I've heard people tell me that they found drinking beer disgusting, at first. But as they persisted in drinking it (mostly out of peer pressure), they came to like doing so. I've heard similar stories about coffee. Folks have told me, too, about how working out at the gym was, initially, a miserable business but, as they persevered in exercise, eventually came to enjoy it and feel a strong need for it. These weren't people who, at the beginning, wanted at all to be at the gym, but who were there because of medical problems, or to head off medical problems. A person's desires can be developed, and directed, heated up or cooled, by their thinking, choices and effort. The person who is led about by lust is living at the very lowest level of human experience, like an animal, really, degrading themselves just as animals often do but without the excuse of the inferiorities of being an animal.
Okay, but I never lusted after beer or coffee. The fact of the matter is, if we never lusted after a member of the opposite sex, our species would have gone extinct.
 
Okay, but I never lusted after beer or coffee. The fact of the matter is, if we never lusted after a member of the opposite sex, our species would have gone extinct.
Lust and attraction are not the same thing. Lust is unrestrained desire, a choice. Attraction is not a choice, it is innate.
 
Gonna bow out of the discussion cuz it is difficult to engage on this without feeling overwhelmed and ganged up on, especially given my recent turnabout. (I recently became affirming after studying the original language and historical context in scripture. No you will not get me to reconsider.)

Most of the time when I comment on things of this nature anymore, it is to leave a comment and then entirely ignore whatever else ensues. For my own sanity. So say what you will, do what you will, but I am out of here and will not be seeing any more of it.

I will only leave you with this:
Many a gay Christian has grown up in a religious home and started realizing they were gay around puberty. They spend years trying to pray it away and not telling anyone. They may grow in faith, but they find themselves unable to "pray the gay away".
I have heard these stories personally and more than once, being in a community of unaffirming gay people (we called ourselves "side B") for several years.
Does the gay neighbor not deserve compassion? Do the gay neighbor not deserve community and love and warmth? Even if you must be unaffirming, it is still quite possible to love your gay neighbor without beating your translation of the Bible into their heads at every opportunity. (Cuz you best believe it's been pounded into their heads their entire lives already. Yes, even the approach you believe you came up with.)

Farewell.
 
Okay, but I never lusted after beer or coffee. The fact of the matter is, if we never lusted after a member of the opposite sex, our species would have gone extinct.

Yes, God has given us all natural, physical desires toward the opposite sex. But those desires can be corrupted, twisted and exaggerated and thus made evil. Instead of correcting these corruptions of natural sexual desire, especially these days, they are preserved as "normal," and inevitable, and unchangeable. My point about the booze, and coffee, and exercise is that our desires can be changed, reoriented and brought under God's control. They aren't to control to us, but to be controlled by us.
 
There is this strange idea that has been floating around within the Church for a long time which is that, if one prays to God to remove a temptation, a sinful desire, from oneself, He is obliged to do so instantly. Though the making of that sinful desire, the forming of its strength and enduring nature, may have taken many years to develop, the belief is, often, that in a single moment God will remove the desire, that freedom from sin means immediate and total relief from it. Where is this stated in God's word? Nowhere. Most of the time, God doesn't remove sinful desire in a single stroke. Instead, He uses our struggle against sinful desire to teach us about living under His control all the time, about waging spiritual warfare, about standing by faith on His truth, and about our great need to remain always fully-dependent upon Him. "Praying the gay away," then, is not a biblical idea.

Part of the reason God hates sin is that it is habit-forming, it shapes our psychology and behavior in profound, pattern-forming ways; and the longer sin has to do so, the more difficult the process of winning free of its power and pattern. If it's taken years to settle deep into a person, sinful desire and thinking can require years to fully abandon, new thinking and desires established in their place. Some kinds of sin strongly engage physiological aspects of our bodies, triggering powerful brain chemistry and hormones, and in doing so make getting free of such sin even harder. And so, God warns us stridently in His word to avoid sin - especially sexual sin. Such sin can leave us with a permanent "limp."

It has been a master-stroke of the devil to get people to identify with their sin so much that their self-identity is formed in large part upon their sin. As a result, forsaking sin feels like denying who one is. By this means, the devil more deeply ensnares people in the sin that God promises will destroy them. When, though, any sinner comes to a saving faith in Jesus Christ, s/he is "made new" and receives an entirely fresh identity that is anchored in Christ, not in their sin. If they don't relinquish their old sin identity and take up, by faith, who they have become in Jesus instead, they can enjoy nothing of God. Only as a born-again person knows and lives by faith in their new identity in Jesus Christ are they properly able to walk with God. It is, after all, only because they have been put "in Christ" that they are at all accepted by God. The devil, however, wants to keep Christians from living in the truth, part of which includes the truth of their Christ-identity in which sin has no part.

What is truly compassionate, then, when it comes to the person enacting homosexual behavior? Their sin, God promises, will destroy them eternally in hell (Romans 6:23; James 1:14-15; Galatians 6:7-8, Romans 8:6). But first, it will corrupt them, twisting their mind and heart, searing their conscience, silencing the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and deadening their fellowship with God. Their sin will blind, deafen and harden them toward God and His truth, leaving them fearful, defensive, doubting, double-minded and angry (Hebrews 3:13; James 1:8; Isaiah 59:9-12; 1 Timothy 4:2; Hebrews 10:26-31, etc.). Why in the world, then, would any Christian think it is showing compassion to make a person acting homosexually feel comfortable in doing so? Their sin is destroying them! There is no love, then, no real compassion, in affirming them in their sin.

Does this mean Christians ought to harp continually upon the sin of homosexuality? No more than they ought to harp on any sin. All sin, really, is just symptomatic of a deeper problem. Whether it's homosexuality, or gossip, or pride, or gluttony, or laziness, or whatever, these things are just sparks rising from the bonfire of our "old wo/man," the person we are apart from God, who is incorrigibly and radically self-seeking, shortsighted, and sensual (Romans 6:6: Romans 8:5-8; Romans 7:14-25; Philippians 3:18-19). What people caught in sin need, then, isn't a constant pointing at their particular sin, but at their need to be put to death by God, through Christ, that they might live in "newness of life," free from bondage to their "old man," the world and the devil.

In any case, homosexuality is sin; about this the Bible is crystal clear. God makes no allowance whatever for homosexuality, by which He means a person having sexual relations with someone of the same sex. Just read Romans 1:18-32, Leviticus 18:22, and Leviticus 20:13. No "translation" of the Bible can undo the plain description of the homosexual act in Scripture which has nothing to do with "temple prostitution."

Leviticus 18:22
22 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

Romans 1:25-27
25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
 
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Hey All,
What do you mean by biological? Are you saying that homosexuality is a result of a brain abnormality, or defect? That is an interesting theory. If it's biological, then wouldn't it be a treatable, or even curable, condition? (Please don't take my questions offensively. They are not meant to be disrespectful. I don't know how else to ask them. )

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
They are a corruption of the image of God we were given, and a wrongful uncontrolled lust of the flesh. And yet we can still repent and be forgiven, and let Christ cleanse of it...
 
There is this strange idea that has been floating around within the Church for a long time which is that, if one prays to God to remove a temptation, a sinful desire, from oneself, He is obliged to do so instantly. Though the making of that sinful desire, the forming of its strength and enduring nature, may have taken many years to develop, the belief is, often, that in a single moment God will remove the desire, that freedom from sin means immediate and total relief from it. Where is this stated in God's word? Nowhere. Most of the time, God doesn't remove sinful desire in a single stroke. Instead, He uses our struggle against sinful desire to teach us about living under His control all the time, about waging spiritual warfare, about standing by faith on His truth, and about our great need to remain always fully-dependent upon Him. "Praying the gay away," then, is not a biblical idea.

Part of the reason God hates sin is that it is habit-forming, it shapes our psychology and behavior in profound, pattern-forming ways; and the longer sin has to do so, the more difficult the process of winning free of its power and pattern. If it's taken years to settle deep into a person, sinful desire and thinking can require years to fully abandon, new thinking and desires established in their place. Some kinds of sin strongly engage physiological aspects of our bodies, triggering powerful brain chemistry and hormones, and in doing so make getting free of such sin even harder. And so, God warns us stridently in His word to avoid sin - especially sexual sin. Such sin can leave us with a permanent "limp."

It has been a master-stroke of the devil to get people to identify with their sin so much that their self-identity is formed in large part upon their sin. As a result, forsaking sin feels like denying who one is. By this means, the devil more deeply ensnares people in the sin that God promises will destroy them. When, though, any sinner comes to a saving faith in Jesus Christ, s/he is "made new" and receives an entirely fresh identity that is anchored in Christ, not in their sin. If they don't relinquish their old sin identity and take up, by faith, who they have become in Jesus instead, they can enjoy nothing of God. Only as a born-again person knows and lives by faith in their new identity in Jesus Christ are they properly able to walk with God. It is, after all, only because they have been put "in Christ" that they are at all accepted by God. The devil, however, wants to keep Christians from living in the truth, part of which includes the truth of their Christ-identity in which sin has no part.

What is truly compassionate, then, when it comes to the person enacting homosexual behavior? Their sin, God promises, will destroy them eternally in hell (Romans 6:23; James 1:14-15; Galatians 6:7-8, Romans 8:6). But first, it will corrupt them, twisting their mind and heart, searing their conscience, silencing the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and deadening their fellowship with God. Their sin will blind, deafen and harden them toward God and His truth, leaving them fearful, defensive, doubting, double-minded and angry (Hebrews 3:13; James 1:8; Isaiah 59:9-12; 1 Timothy 4:2; Hebrews 10:26-31, etc.). Why in the world, then, would any Christian think it is showing compassion to make a person acting homosexually feel comfortable in doing so? Their sin is destroying them! There is no love, then, no real compassion, in affirming them in their sin.

Does this mean Christians ought to harp continually upon the sin of homosexuality? No more than they ought to harp on any sin. All sin, really, is just symptomatic of a deeper problem. Whether it's homosexuality, or gossip, or pride, or gluttony, or laziness, or whatever, these things are just sparks rising from the bonfire of our "old wo/man," the person we are apart from God, who is incorrigibly and radically self-seeking, shortsighted, and sensual (Romans 6:6: Romans 8:5-8; Romans 7:14-25; Philippians 3:18-19). What people caught in sin need, then, isn't a constant pointing at their particular sin, but at their need to be put to death by God, through Christ, that they might live in "newness of life," free from bondage to their "old man," the world and the devil.

In any case, homosexuality is sin; about this the Bible is crystal clear. God makes no allowance whatever for homosexuality, by which He means a person having sexual relations with someone of the same sex. Just read Romans 1:18-32, Leviticus 18:22, and Leviticus 20:13. No "translation" of the Bible can undo the plain description of the homosexual act in Scripture which has nothing to do with "temple prostitution."

Leviticus 18:22
22 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

Romans 1:25-27
25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
I like to teach in the sermons that it is addiction and only Christ can break it hold on us, but we have to make the choice to let Him...
 
Gonna bow out of the discussion cuz it is difficult to engage on this without feeling overwhelmed and ganged up on, especially given my recent turnabout. (I recently became affirming after studying the original language and historical context in scripture. No you will not get me to reconsider.)

Most of the time when I comment on things of this nature anymore, it is to leave a comment and then entirely ignore whatever else ensues. For my own sanity. So say what you will, do what you will, but I am out of here and will not be seeing any more of it.

I will only leave you with this:
Many a gay Christian has grown up in a religious home and started realizing they were gay around puberty. They spend years trying to pray it away and not telling anyone. They may grow in faith, but they find themselves unable to "pray the gay away".
I have heard these stories personally and more than once, being in a community of unaffirming gay people (we called ourselves "side B") for several years.
Does the gay neighbor not deserve compassion? Do the gay neighbor not deserve community and love and warmth? Even if you must be unaffirming, it is still quite possible to love your gay neighbor without beating your translation of the Bible into their heads at every opportunity. (Cuz you best believe it's been pounded into their heads their entire lives already. Yes, even the approach you believe you came up with.)

Farewell.
I would like to say, there is no such thing as a "gay christian" that is like saying there are "drunk christians'.

Both are sinners. If these people are truly saved they are not gay or drunks, they are Christians. Why "affirm: something you are not.

Paul said...

Philippians 3:13-14 Brothers, I do not consider myself as having laid hold of it yet, but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

If one is truly regenerate, they will not associate themselves with their former sin.
 
I would like to say, there is no such thing as a "gay christian" that is like saying there are "drunk christians'.

Both are sinners. If these people are truly saved they are not gay or drunks, they are Christians. Why "affirm: something you are not.

Paul said...

Philippians 3:13-14 Brothers, I do not consider myself as having laid hold of it yet, but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

If one is truly regenerate, they will not associate themselves with their former sin.
Thus they are sinners claiming they are 'Christian'...
 
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