Let's Unpack One Verse Here...

[Nathan]

hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

I understand that faith "predates" Abraham. So, how can Abraham's faith predate him? We are told that it was "by faith" that Abel brough a more excellent sacrifice; it was a blood sacrifice, but was Abel's faith the "faith of Abraham"?

As to your points above, in the first one, where is the land grant to the nation of Israel, or don't you believe that land was promised to Abraham's seed(Israelites) thru Jacob( Israel)?

In your 2nd point, did the law come before faith? If so, what about "Noah" who built the ark because of faith in what God said?

In your 3rd point, when was the first time that any one was baptized into Christ? Was it before He was nailed to the cross and crucified? In Hebrews 11:5 it is stated; "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death:" Was his faith in the crucified Christ, the seed of Abraham?

I actually was not trying to break it up into different points(just save room aside from quoting the whole passage).

The singular point is there is a singular faith with a singular kingdom. But you raise great questions.

Faith is quite simple - it is believing God for what He says and acting on it. While we call it "Abraham's" faith, it is not his faith in a possessive sense. As in, it was not a faith he created - but rather, it is a faith he received. So just as Abraham received faith - believing God - so has everyone else who has the same 'type' of faith.

The problem is, many people have a faith - but its not the same type of faith as Abraham. Abraham's faith came from God, and so everyone who receives their faith from God then has the same faith as Abraham. It can predate him simply because it was not of him - the same way it can still be had today even though we are thousands of years removed from him.

God's law is eternal, so yes it comes before faith. Whats interesting is that anything God says is law - it does not have to be written down. In the case of Noah, the law of God was decreed that life was going to be wiped out on the surface of the earth. Not only that, but Noah had to build the ark according to God's directions - they were not suggestions.

Baptism into Christ is where you simply have to understand what is being said. Paul is speaking of spiritual baptism - and that is faith in Christ. Adam and Eve had faith in Christ because it was foretold to them about His coming. So I have no doubt that Enoch also had faith in Christ.

We look at faith in Christ as faith in the Man Jesus who walked the earth. Faith in Christ is simply belief in the One who would be the perfect sacrifice for sins. Of course He walked the earth, but the Christ was the perfect sacrifice. People throughout the ages have had faith in Him when they believe that nothing they can do will satisfy God's requirement of perfection.

I have no doubt that Enoch understood his sinfulness and need for a savior.

 

[dirtfarmer]

I actually was not trying to break it up into different points(just save room aside from quoting the whole passage).

The singular point is there is a singular faith with a singular kingdom. But you raise great questions.

Faith is quite simple - it is believing God for what He says and acting on it. While we call it "Abraham's" faith, it is not his faith in a possessive sense. As in, it was not a faith he created - but rather, it is a faith he received. So just as Abraham received faith - believing God - so has everyone else who has the same 'type' of faith.

The problem is, many people have a faith - but its not the same type of faith as Abraham. Abraham's faith came from God, and so everyone who receives their faith from God then has the same faith as Abraham. It can predate him simply because it was not of him - the same way it can still be had today even though we are thousands of years removed from him.

God's law is eternal, so yes it comes before faith. Whats interesting is that anything God says is law - it does not have to be written down. In the case of Noah, the law of God was decreed that life was going to be wiped out on the surface of the earth. Not only that, but Noah had to build the ark according to God's directions - they were not suggestions.

Baptism into Christ is where you simply have to understand what is being said. Paul is speaking of spiritual baptism - and that is faith in Christ. Adam and Eve had faith in Christ because it was foretold to them about His coming. So I have no doubt that Enoch also had faith in Christ.

We look at faith in Christ as faith in the Man Jesus who walked the earth. Faith in Christ is simply belief in the One who would be the perfect sacrifice for sins. Of course He walked the earth, but the Christ was the perfect sacrifice. People throughout the ages have had faith in Him when they believe that nothing they can do will satisfy God's requirement of perfection.

I have no doubt that Enoch understood his sinfulness and need for a savior.

hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

While I will agree that salvation before the cross was "by faith" and after the cross it "thru faith":
Romans 3:30 " Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith( before the cross) , and the uncircumcision through faith." Can you see and understand the difference between "by faith" and "through faith"? By faith is looking forward toward the savior that was to come but had not yet appeared. "Through faith" is looking back to the cross of Christ that did appear and die for our sin, on the cross.
Both are faith in "God said", but what God said before the cross was "build and enter the ark and you will be save" or "leave the country of your birth and sojourn in a land in which I will show you", or " obey my voice and keep my covenant". Now it is "believe my report of my Son paying your sin debt through faith". Faith is taking God's word as truth and living by that.

If Noah had not had faith in God's word, "build an ark", and built the ark he would have drown like every one else. If Abram had not had faith in God's word, "leave the country of your birth and look for a city" , he would have never become the father of the faithful. If Moses had not had faith in God's word and told the children of Israel what God had said, he would have died on the back side of the desert unknown. Now if we don't believe God's word we will die in our sin and be cast into the lake of fire. The kingdom that God promised is an earthly kingdom to Israel through Abraham. The Church is not that kingdom, but is the body of Christ that will one day rule and reign with him over the earthly kingdom that was promised to Jacob(Israel), as heirs and co-heirs with Christ and will not be a kingdom of priest. The kingdom of priest was promised to Israel in the Sinai desert through Moses.

 

[Nathan]

hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

While I will agree that salvation before the cross was "by faith" and after the cross it "thru faith":
Romans 3:30 " Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith( before the cross) , and the uncircumcision through faith." Can you see and understand the difference between "by faith" and "through faith"? By faith is looking forward toward the savior that was to come but had not yet appeared. "Through faith" is looking back to the cross of Christ that did appear and die for our sin, on the cross.
Both are faith in "God said", but what God said before the cross was "build and enter the ark and you will be save" or "leave the country of your birth and sojourn in a land in which I will show you", or " obey my voice and keep my covenant". Now it is "believe my report of my Son paying your sin debt through faith". Faith is taking God's word as truth and living by that.

If Noah had not had faith in God's word, "build an ark", and built the ark he would have drown like every one else. If Abram had not had faith in God's word, "leave the country of your birth and look for a city" , he would have never become the father of the faithful. If Moses had not had faith in God's word and told the children of Israel what God had said, he would have died on the back side of the desert unknown. Now if we don't believe God's word we will die in our sin and be cast into the lake of fire. The kingdom that God promised is an earthly kingdom to Israel through Abraham. The Church is not that kingdom, but is the body of Christ that will one day rule and reign with him over the earthly kingdom that was promised to Jacob(Israel), as heirs and co-heirs with Christ and will not be a kingdom of priest. The kingdom of priest was promised to Israel in the Sinai desert through Moses.

I see the difference of by and through faith.

Heb 11:9-10
By faith he[Abraham] went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God.

I think Abraham would disagree with you regarding the 'earthly' kingdom - he went, and lived, in the earthly land promised. However, he did so as he was living in a foreign land - even living in tents which are temporal. He knew that this was not the actual promise that was made, but a foreshadowing of the promise to come.

Point being, you cannot divide "the seed", which is Christ, into two parts. The promises were to Christ - and all who had faith in Him. That means, everyone before Christ came, and everyone after He came, are all apart of the promise. Singular.

 

[Edward]

The Canaanite woman did the same thing in Matthew 15:21-28. By faith, she reached into the future to claim the promise that had not yet been granted to the gentiles! Not only that, but she stood up to Jesus! He told her, I only come for the lost sheep of Israel...and she said Huh-uh! Lol
By faith.

 

[Nathan]

The Canaanite woman did the same thing in Matthew 15:21-28. By faith, she reached into the future to claim the promise that had not yet been granted to the gentiles! Not only that, but she stood up to Jesus! He told her, I only come for the lost sheep of Israel...and she said Huh-uh! Lol
By faith.

And Rahab. She was a Jerichoian, not an Israelite.

Heb 11:39-40
And all these[Old Testament people], though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

Singular. All in one.

I think the confusion sets in when we introduce dispensationalism. I learned dispensationalism right off the bat, and even when I was younger. It 'sounded' right, but had so many holes in it that it could never hold water.

 

[dirtfarmer]

I see the difference of by and through faith.

Heb 11:9-10
By faith he[Abraham] went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God.

I think Abraham would disagree with you regarding the 'earthly' kingdom - he went, and lived, in the earthly land promised. However, he did so as he was living in a foreign land - even living in tents which are temporal. He knew that this was not the actual promise that was made, but a foreshadowing of the promise to come.

Point being, you cannot divide "the seed", which is Christ, into two parts. The promises were to Christ - and all who had faith in Him. That means, everyone before Christ came, and everyone after He came, are all apart of the promise. Singular.

hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

Was not Christ 100% man and at the same time 100% God? What was the promises that " everyone before Christ came and everyone after he came" were part of?

 

[reba]

Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

 

[Nathan]

hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

Was not Christ 100% man and at the same time 100% God? What was the promises that " everyone before Christ came and everyone after he came" were part of?

Jesus was "Immanuel" - which is "God with us".

We(past/present in Christ) are apart of the promise of the land to come. Notice what Hebrews says. Abraham went and lived in the land he was promised. But he did so as if it was not 'actually' the land promised - in other words - he did not view it as the promised land. Why? He was looking forward(past our time) to the new land we will inherit with Christ.

Faith takes us past the things we see, into that which we have not seen. The point of faith is reunification of the separation that sin causes. It was that way before Christ came, and it was that way after He came. The final fulfillment of that unification will come at the end of this time - when all things are complete. That is when the promises are fulfilled - and done through the work of Christ.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Jesus was "Immanuel" - which is "God with us".

We(past/present in Christ) are apart of the promise of the land to come. Notice what Hebrews says. Abraham went and lived in the land he was promised. But he did so as if it was not 'actually' the land promised - in other words - he did not view it as the promised land. Why? He was looking forward(past our time) to the new land we will inherit with Christ.

Faith takes us past the things we see, into that which we have not seen. The point of faith is reunification of the separation that sin causes. It was that way before Christ came, and it was that way after He came. The final fulfillment of that unification will come at the end of this time - when all things are complete. That is when the promises are fulfilled - and done through the work of Christ.

hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

I believe in the restitution of all things is biblical. I also believe in the bride of Christ that will rule and reign with Christ during the kingdom age. What I do not believe is the replacement theology. God has not replaced Israel with the Church. God has an earthly people that was scattered through world and we are seeing them being re-gathered as a nation after 3000 or so years.

Your term, "reunification of the separation that sin caused" at the point of faith is the separation, dividing asunder of the spirit from the soul. Before salvation the spirit of man is subject to the soul and only cognizant of the physical world, but when man's spirit is separated from his soul by the Spirit, we cry ABBA Father. Our spirit is then subject to the Spirit and our flesh, "the old man", has been crucified with Christ. WE then are citizens of heaven, of the household of God, and betrothed to Christ our savior.

When Jesus Christ was manifest in the flesh, he was a prophet and offered the kingdom to Israel but they rejected it. He is now at the right hand of God in heaven making intercession for us in his office of priest. At his return to this earth he will then become king to the earthly kingdom of Israel that was promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. We , the bride of Christ, will have been married to him and are no longer the espoused, but the bride of Christ. Then will the promises be fulfilled and the kingdom established.

This is what I have come to believe through study of scripture. I don't believe that we are on the same page. The one thing that we do agree on is that belief in the death, burial, and resurrection is necessary for salvation. This is a cardinal ( a must believe) doctrine in order to be saved. I do not believe "end time doctrine" is essential for justification, but it is for sanctification.

 

[Nathan]

hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

I believe in the restitution of all things is biblical. I also believe in the bride of Christ that will rule and reign with Christ during the kingdom age. What I do not believe is the replacement theology. God has not replaced Israel with the Church. God has an earthly people that was scattered through world and we are seeing them being re-gathered as a nation after 3000 or so years.

Your term, "reunification of the separation that sin caused" at the point of faith is the separation, dividing asunder of the spirit from the soul. Before salvation the spirit of man is subject to the soul and only cognizant of the physical world, but when man's spirit is separated from his soul by the Spirit, we cry ABBA Father. Our spirit is then subject to the Spirit and our flesh, "the old man", has been crucified with Christ. WE then are citizens of heaven, of the household of God, and betrothed to Christ our savior.

When Jesus Christ was manifest in the flesh, he was a prophet and offered the kingdom to Israel but they rejected it. He is now at the right hand of God in heaven making intercession for us in his office of priest. At his return to this earth he will then become king to the earthly kingdom of Israel that was promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. We , the bride of Christ, will have been married to him and are no longer the espoused, but the bride of Christ. Then will the promises be fulfilled and the kingdom established.

This is what I have come to believe through study of scripture. I don't believe that we are on the same page. The one thing that we do agree on is that belief in the death, burial, and resurrection is necessary for salvation. This is a cardinal ( a must believe) doctrine in order to be saved. I do not believe "end time doctrine" is essential for justification, but it is for sanctification.

I don't think that topics like these are salvation issues either, but what they do effect is how we view God. I always found it hard to worship a God that I had conflicting thoughts about - not good vs bad - but 'this' vs 'that'. I knew that truth was pure, God was truth, so if I was going to worship Him, I had to do so in truth.

You might view all things being one in Christ as replacement theology, but I assure you it is not. I don't believe the Church replaced Israel - it is a part of Israel - the Israel that the promises were made too.

I am not sure if you realize it, but the people of the Old Testament were also considered the bride - and contrasted with 'her' adulteries as a whore. Its the same type of relationship we find with the Church.

Jer 2:2
“Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem, Thus says the LORD,
“I remember the devotion of your youth,
your love as a bride,
how you followed me in the wilderness,
in a land not sown.

Jer 2:32
Can a virgin forget her ornaments,
or a bride her attire?
Yet my people have forgotten me
days without number.

Jer 3:6-10
The LORD said to me in the days of King Josiah: “Have you seen what she did, that faithless one, Israel, how she went up on every high hill and under every green tree, and there played the whore? And I thought, ‘After she has done all this she will return to me,’ but she did not return, and her treacherous sister Judah saw it. She saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce. Yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the whore. Because she took her whoredom lightly, she polluted the land, committing adultery with stone and tree. Yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah did not return to me with her whole heart, but in pretense, declares the LORD.”

We cannot take the analogies of marriage and look at them as literal. They are descriptions of our relationship - just like they were of Israel. We are the bride of Christ, yet we are also to consider Him our Master, Lord, and King. We cannot disconnect and separate ourselves from Israel because we are apart of the same tree - the same vine.

 

[dirtfarmer]

I don't think that topics like these are salvation issues either, but what they do effect is how we view God. I always found it hard to worship a God that I had conflicting thoughts about - not good vs bad - but 'this' vs 'that'. I knew that truth was pure, God was truth, so if I was going to worship Him, I had to do so in truth.

You might view all things being one in Christ as replacement theology, but I assure you it is not. I don't believe the Church replaced Israel - it is a part of Israel - the Israel that the promises were made too.

I am not sure if you realize it, but the people of the Old Testament were also considered the bride - and contrasted with 'her' adulteries as a whore. Its the same type of relationship we find with the Church.

Jer 2:2
“Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem, Thus says the LORD,
“I remember the devotion of your youth,
your love as a bride,
how you followed me in the wilderness,
in a land not sown.

Jer 2:32
Can a virgin forget her ornaments,
or a bride her attire?
Yet my people have forgotten me
days without number.

Jer 3:6-10
The LORD said to me in the days of King Josiah: “Have you seen what she did, that faithless one, Israel, how she went up on every high hill and under every green tree, and there played the whore? And I thought, ‘After she has done all this she will return to me,’ but she did not return, and her treacherous sister Judah saw it. She saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce. Yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the whore. Because she took her whoredom lightly, she polluted the land, committing adultery with stone and tree. Yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah did not return to me with her whole heart, but in pretense, declares the LORD.”

We cannot take the analogies of marriage and look at them as literal. They are descriptions of our relationship - just like they were of Israel. We are the bride of Christ, yet we are also to consider Him our Master, Lord, and King. We cannot disconnect and separate ourselves from Israel because we are apart of the same tree - the same vine.

hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

Has Christ ever been married? If not, then the scripture in Jeremiah cannot be in reference to Jesus Christ. Notice in your reference in Jeremiah 3:6-10 " I had sent her away with a decree of divorce" . So, when the Church and Jesus Christ are married, is Jesus a committing bigamy by being married to 2 wives at the same time?

 

[Nathan]

hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

Has Christ ever been married? If not, then the scripture in Jeremiah cannot be in reference to Jesus Christ. Notice in your reference in Jeremiah 3:6-10 " I had sent her away with a decree of divorce" . So, when the Church and Jesus Christ are married, is Jesus a committing bigamy by being married to 2 wives at the same time?

You ask a great question.

I can only answer with, is Jesus God?(yes of course). Who else was Israel betrothed to?

 

[dirtfarmer]

I don't think that topics like these are salvation issues either, but what they do effect is how we view God. I always found it hard to worship a God that I had conflicting thoughts about - not good vs bad - but 'this' vs 'that'. I knew that truth was pure, God was truth, so if I was going to worship Him, I had to do so in truth.

You might view all things being one in Christ as replacement theology, but I assure you it is not. I don't believe the Church replaced Israel - it is a part of Israel - the Israel that the promises were made too.

I am not sure if you realize it, but the people of the Old Testament were also considered the bride - and contrasted with 'her' adulteries as a whore. Its the same type of relationship we find with the Church.

Jer 2:2
“Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem, Thus says the LORD,
“I remember the devotion of your youth,
your love as a bride,
how you followed me in the wilderness,
in a land not sown.

Jer 2:32
Can a virgin forget her ornaments,
or a bride her attire?
Yet my people have forgotten me
days without number.

Jer 3:6-10
The LORD said to me in the days of King Josiah: “Have you seen what she did, that faithless one, Israel, how she went up on every high hill and under every green tree, and there played the whore? And I thought, ‘After she has done all this she will return to me,’ but she did not return, and her treacherous sister Judah saw it. She saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce. Yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the whore. Because she took her whoredom lightly, she polluted the land, committing adultery with stone and tree. Yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah did not return to me with her whole heart, but in pretense, declares the LORD.”

We cannot take the analogies of marriage and look at them as literal. They are descriptions of our relationship - just like they were of Israel. We are the bride of Christ, yet we are also to consider Him our Master, Lord, and King. We cannot disconnect and separate ourselves from Israel because we are apart of the same tree - the same vine.

hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

PART 2

In Romans 11:17-18, if I understand that scripture, we were not grafted into the branches(Israel), but grafted into the root(Jesus Christ). Being grafted into the root is different from being grafted into the branches.

In Jeremiah LORD in Hebrew is Jehovah. In Deuteronomy 4:35. 1 Kings 8:6. Psalm 100:3, and Zechariah 13:9;it is stated, " The LORD is my God( Jehovah is my Elohim).

 

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

The bride of Christ is always called a chaste virgin, but not so with the wife of Jehovah. She is always characterized as an adulterer

 

[eddif]

I Peter 3:19 KJV
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

I expect Jewish saints are saved through Jesus just like we are today.

eddif

 

[Nathan]

hello Nathan, dirtfarmer here

PART 2

In Romans 11:17-18, if I understand that scripture, we were not grafted into the branches(Israel), but grafted into the root(Jesus Christ). Being grafted into the root is different from being grafted into the branches.

In Jeremiah LORD in Hebrew is Jehovah. In Deuteronomy 4:35. 1 Kings 8:6. Psalm 100:3, and Zechariah 13:9;it is stated, " The LORD is my God( Jehovah is my Elohim).

Actually, we are grafted into the 'trunk' of the olive tree - which is Christ. Regardless, as Romans 11 states, we receive the same "nutrients" as the other branches - same nutrients.

Rom 11:25
Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

That "in" is in direct reference to what Paul was just speaking about - the olive tree - Israel. Paul follows it up with this;

Rom 11:26
And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;

What "way" is the "in this way"? It is Christ - The Olive Tree. Them being naturally apart of the tree, us being unnaturally grafted on - we both receive the "nutrients"(eternal life), and so all 'Israel' will be saved.

"Israel" - "He shall be a prince of God" Who fits that bill? Jesus the Christ. Those who are in Him, receiving His life, are saved by Him.

 

[eddif]

Actually, we are grafted into the 'trunk' of the olive tree - which is Christ. Regardless, as Romans 11 states, we receive the same "nutrients" as the other branches - same nutrients.

Rom 11:25
Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

That "in" is in direct reference to what Paul was just speaking about - the olive tree - Israel. Paul follows it up with this;

Rom 11:26
And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;

What "way" is the "in this way"? It is Christ - The Olive Tree. Them being naturally apart of the tree, us being unnaturally grafted on - we both receive the "nutrients"(eternal life), and so all 'Israel' will be saved.

"Israel" - "He shall be a prince of God" Who fits that bill? Jesus the Christ. Those who are in Him, receiving His life, are saved by Him.

Got to respect / love the teaching of God.

Let us make man in our image.

Unseen for a long time was genetics. A monk was involved in the deeper / more modern conversation.

The root of a plant is usually buried in soil. But
Some water plants this is not exactly so.

The cells of the root contain the same genetic code the trunk has, and the branches have the same genetic code the fruit has.

Love it when rednecks show they have lost it.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all have the same will of the Father.

Underneath everything sits the root. Pretty sure it is the Father. We see Jesus as more visable, but God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son who is the fullness of the Godhead visibly. Jesus grew up as a root out of dry ground so we see the full picture when we see him. Jesus suffered in showing the Fathers will, naked on the cross we see the Godhead.

Branches are added as the plant grows, and some die and are replaced (we see knots to know the branches were there in the past).

We Gentiles pick up the will of the Father as we are grafted in. All the foreign (foreign to a Gentile) aspects of God are ours. One new man springs to life.

Let trauma hit a tree (tornado rip top out), and suddenly you have branches on the trunk.

Do I understand all this? In one sense - not in the slightest. Do I get a glimpse of what is going on? Yes.

We share faith / belief through Abraham. One new man. The man made of Jew and Gentile.

The knot shall rebud and grow. The genetics is there.

Someone fill me in on the olive tree.

The redneck jerk from Mississippi
eddif

 

[nmwings]

The verse is Isaiah 60:1
Arise, shine;
For your light has come!.../

First word; Is this a command? A request? Intercession? What is this. Arise. To me, it has the ring of a command. A call to action? What's that mean? And to shine? How is a believer to shine? What's that mean?

It's a small verse.

Isa 60 is speaking of resurrection day after the Trib. "Arise"... from our slumber and our new glorified bodies "Shine" (reflect?) His righteousness.

 

[Edward]

Isa 60 is speaking of resurrection day after the Trib. "Arise"... from our slumber and our new glorified bodies "Shine" (reflect?) His righteousness.

Resurrection day after the trib? Pardon me, Brother but how did you come to that conclusion?

 

[reba]

Stay on topic

staying on topic is very difficult for me too...