[_ Old Earth _] Literal or Figurative 6 Day Creation

[Nick]

Ok, there is a lot of dispute between Christians on the 6 Day Creation, as described in Genesis as to whether Moses and God intended this to be a literal 6 Day account or whether it was more figurative, meaning that the 6 Days were actually metaphors for the 6 Stages in Creation.

I asked one of my church ministers, and he wrote me the following response, which I think is based on good logic:

Re literal – we need to ask what did the author (Moses) mean by this highly stylized account of creation.

Was he trying to give a historical account of the first 6x24 hour time slots of creation?

PROBLEMS

1) What theological reason would he want to do that for?
2) What about the fossil record & carbon dating that goes back to ancient times?
3) What about Darwin’s natural selection of the fittest being such a powerful explanatory tool? (assumption there is no God)
4) If there is 1-3 & evening & mornings before day 4 when the sun was created then how were there days before the sun?
5) Is there any other credible explanation that seems to account for Gen 1-2 better than the literal reading?


OK that’s enough – what about some OTHER BETTER EXPLANATION?

Was it to show that there was one God (not two waring Gods); Who is in complete control (let there be light & there was); Who is a personal God (speaks creation into existence)?
Was it to show that God didn’t have to create but did, that mankind was the climax of creation made to relate to God (& creation was for mankind – to be ruled by mad under God).
Was it to show that rest was the ultimate purpose of creation (where mankind & God were to relate).

From Gen 1:2 we see that the earth was formless and empty, then we see 3 days of forming & then 3 days of filling.
Days of FORMING Days of FILLING
Day 1 light Day 4 sun/moon/stars
Day 2 water/sky Day 5 fish/birds
Day 3 land/vegetation Day 6 beasts/human beings

Is this to show the goodness, purposefulness & completeness of creation?

Does the end of the bible after mankind is restored via Christ from the Gen 3 fall – in Rev 21-22 speak of the final outcome of heaven in super creation terms that shows that the Garden of Eden was like a prototype to help us understand heaven.

I think this is view seems to have miles more going for it.

So what of the 6 day creation view?

Moses was using it as a stylized framework to hang 6 vital aspects off. They were never meant to be taken literally & for those who do – GREAT for taking the bible so seriously but it’s not how to read the literature so they are mistaken. So we just want to keep reading the bible with them but not get hung up or break fellowship over this.

Further in school biology – we don’t need to go on too much against natural selection – it’s the current popular view and they have assumed that God is not behind it all. So of course their conclusion is that God is not behind it all (they assumed it in the first place).

I think we can use this explanation in science essays by stating early up – assuming the Darwinian theory of evolution ... Then write the essay as our (non Xn) science teachers would want us to

 

[Barbarian]

Actually, many scientists like Francisco Ayala, Theo Dobzhansky, Kenneth Miller, and so on, do think God is behind it. Natural selection is a pitiless, uncaring process. So are plate tectonics and chemistry. Does it say anything about the Carpenter, if the hammer isn't caring?

 

[jasoncran]

one thing, nick, the faith that we have should be simple, the faith the apostles had was and that's the one that christ taught is. we as men sometimes want to know everything little thing before we believe what the lord says.

i'm not against scientific inquiry at all, but our faith should be simple. not the new modern sophisticated type, i listen to kp o'hanlon of win asia.org. He is a missionary and preaches the basics, faith in christ,the gifts and miracles. he has stated recenlty that he hates to talk about miracles to american christians, why lack of faith, sad, but lets be real here what does god require, a scientific understanding to get into the kingdom, or faith? faith wont make sense, never will.

miracles are they falsifable? did jesus do them. the world said no, how could ever prove them via scientific means? only by faith do we live or enter the kingdom

i know this will seem foolish, nick, but i was feeling down and the reminder that god can created it in six days reminded me why we should be encouraged that we are saved,

my mind doesnt understand it, never will but by faith i accept it.

jason

 

[Nick]

Jason: I accept that Creation did happen, and I absolutely have a Faith in Jesus Christ, and I'm not doubting God or anything. I've got the 'simple faith' that you talk about. What I'm trying to do is put some information out there about the argument of Creation - whether it was literally 6 days (or 6,000 years) or was just figurative, meaning that Moses used the 6 day thing as a means to divide up the Creation into 6 distinctive parts. I don't think this has anything to do with any doubts in my fatih at all. I believe that Creation happened and that it was by God's hand, but I'm just inquiring into how, becasue as I said earlier, there is great division among Christians about this.

 

[jasoncran]

Jason: I accept that Creation did happen, and I absolutely have a Faith in Jesus Christ, and I'm not doubting God or anything. I've got the 'simple faith' that you talk about. What I'm trying to do is put some information out there about the argument of Creation - whether it was literally 6 days (or 6,000 years) or was just figurative, meaning that Moses used the 6 day thing as a means to divide up the Creation into 6 distinctive parts. I don't think this has anything to do with any doubts in my fatih at all. I believe that Creation happened and that it was by God's hand, but I'm just inquiring into how, becasue as I said earlier, there is great division among Christians about this.

of course there is just as there is over revalation. when one gets into what is figurative then one can make it mean what you want it to mean, as far as salvation, not sure, but why miss the full relevaltion of faith. i have been guilty of this as i try figure out what god is and put him in a little box.
i do believe there are figurative parts of the bible, but not there,
jason

 

[Nick]

We'll have to agree to disagree then Jason.

But just quickly (without derailing the thread) what parts of the Bible do you think are figurtaive / metaphorical? For me it is Revelation

 

[jasoncran]

We'll have to agree to disagree then Jason.

But just quickly (without derailing the thread) what parts of the Bible do you think are figurtaive / metaphorical? For me it is Revelation

some parts of revelation use symbolism, there is a means to decypher.
then beleive the the sign literally, ie the demonic scorpions, my influences on revelation are pastor adrian rogers, ken graves, skip hitzig, and my home church. all interpretaions are almost the same.

i dont agree with all my churches interpration of the word either as i have pentacostal roots.

jason

 

[nadab]

The six "creative" days that is spoken in Genesis 1 have been assigned a literal time time of 24 hours each by many of the churches. However, the Bible indicates that each "creative" day was several thousand years long. How can this be known ? Of the creative "days" 1-6, each day concludes with the expression "And there came to be evening and there came to be morning", meaning there was closure to that day. However, of day seven, God's rest day, there was no closure to it, but rather that God "proceeded to rest on the seventh day".(Gen 2:2)

The apostle Paul, at Hebrews 4, brings to our attention that God's "seventh day", his "day of rest", was still going on during his time, saying: "Therefore, since a promise is left of entering into his rest, let us fear that sometime someone of you may seem to have fallen short of it. For we have had the good news declared to us also, even as they also had; but the word which was heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who did hear. For we who have exercised faith do enter into the rest, just as he has said: “So I swore in my anger, ‘They shall not enter into my rest,’†although his works were finished from the founding of the world. For in one place he has said of the seventh day as follows: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,†and again in this place: “They shall not enter into my rest.â€(Heb 4:1-5)

Paul then says that "there remains a sabbath resting for the people of God. For the man that has entered into God’s rest has also himself rested from his own works, just as God did from his own. Let us therefore do our utmost to enter into that rest, for fear anyone should fall in the same pattern of disobedience. "(Heb 4:9-11) Thus, the "seventh day" was still going on in the apostle Paul's day some 4000 years later following the ending of the sixth creative "day" and is to continue until God's purpose for the earth has been brought to a successful completion. We are now living some 6000 years following the closure of the sixth creative "day".

At Hebrews 4:1-11 he referred to the earlier words of David (Ps 95:7, 8, 11) and to Genesis 2:2 and urged: “Let us therefore do our utmost to enter into that rest.†So, by the apostle’s time when he wrote the book of Hebrews in about 61 C.E., the seventh day had been continuing for some four thousand years, from right after the creation of Adam in 4026 B.C.E., and was still ongoing. The Thousand Year Reign of Jesus Christ, who is Scripturally identified as “Lord of the sabbath†(Mt 12:8), is evidently part of the great sabbath, God’s rest day. (Re 20:1-6)

This would indicate the passing of thousands of years from the commencement of God’s rest day to its end. The week of days set forth at Genesis 1:3 to 2:3, the last of which is a sabbath, seems to parallel the week into which the Israelites divided their time, observing a sabbath on the seventh day thereof, in keeping with the divine will. (Ex 20:8-11) And, since the seventh day has been continuing for thousands of years, it may reasonably be concluded that each of the six creative periods, or days, were approximately seven thousand years in length.

 

[Nick]

Interesting...I've never though about the fact that there was 'no end' to the seventh day. . Do you think it could mean that we are in the seventh day now (or seventh stage)? Just pondering.

 

[nadab]

Hello Nick_29,

Yes, God "rest day" or the seventh "creative" day is still here, with the "thousand year" reign of Christ Jesus fast approaching.(Rev 20:6) God had purposed from the "beginning" that the earth be a paradise home for mankind for eternity. Had Adam not sinned in the "beginning", having been obedient to God's command concerning the "tree of knowledge of good and bad" (Gen 2:16,17), then by the end of God's "rest day", the earth would have been "filled" with perfect mankind in a paradise.

Hence, the door to entering "into God's rest" is still open, by "exercising faith".(Heb 4:3) Jesus said it succinctly, that "happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth."(Matt 5:5) Those who become "mild-tempered ones" ("meek", King James Bible) can look forward to enjoying life without end on the earth, after God's "rest day" has come to conclusion, for Psalms 37:11, 29 says that "the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.....The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it."

Therefore, God's purpose toward the earth will be fulfilled, though he "rested" from creation concerning the earth during the seventh "creative" day, not because he was tired. He desisted from earthly creative work in order to let his handiwork develop and come into full glory, to his praise and honor. And in contrast to the faithless Israelites who "tested" God, the apostle Paul wrote: "Let us therefore do our utmost to enter into that rest, for fear anyone should fall in the same pattern of disobedience."(Heb 4:11)

God's purpose of the earth being filled with righteous mankind will be a reality, following the completion or "closure" of the seventh "creative" day. Revelation 21:3-5 says: "With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away. And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.†Also, he says: “Write, because these words are faithful and true.â€

 

[kenmaynard]

Science says the universe was created in an instant. They refer to it as the big bang. This is more in line with an all powerful creator that the biblical version in which it took God six days? Why would it take an all powerful creator six whole days to create the universe?

Also, why would an all powerful creator need to rest? God does not need to rest. One could counter that God chose to rest. Well, we as humans choose to rest too. We could keep on going, and working until we collapse from exhaustion and die. It has happened to many athletes, and many workers. God does not require rest, and the scripture was obviously written from a human perspective, and is not literal.

 

[Nick]

When we say that on the seventh day God rested, itt means that he stopped working, most likely becasue he had finished, not becasue 'he needed a break'.

 

[kenmaynard]

When we say that on the seventh day God rested, itt means that he stopped working, most likely becasue he had finished, not becasue 'he needed a break'.

The word rest implies the need to rejuvenate. That one is tired. That one does not have infinite energy or power. That God rested goes against the idea that he is all powerful. That it took God six whole days instead of an instant suggests God is not all powerful.

Or it could not be a literal story of creation.

 

[Nick]

When we say that on the seventh day God rested, itt means that he stopped working, most likely becasue he had finished, not becasue 'he needed a break'.

The word rest implies the need to rejuvenate. That one is tired. That one does not have infinite energy or power. That God rested goes against the idea that he is all powerful. That it took God six whole days instead of an instant suggests God is not all powerful.

Or it could not be a literal story of creation.

I agree that 1o assume that God rested becasue he was tired etc would go against tha fact that He is all powerful, thus going against what the Bible says.

But that is not what I"m saying. I'm saying it's much more likely that God had finished what he had done, in terms of creation, and when Moses wrote that God rested on the seventh day he meant that there was no more work to be done. If you have no more work to do, are you not resting?

 

[kenmaynard]

[quote="Nick_29":13l56fxc]When we say that on the seventh day God rested, itt means that he stopped working, most likely becasue he had finished, not becasue 'he needed a break'.

The word rest implies the need to rejuvenate. That one is tired. That one does not have infinite energy or power. That God rested goes against the idea that he is all powerful. That it took God six whole days instead of an instant suggests God is not all powerful.

Or it could not be a literal story of creation.

I agree that 1o assume that God rested becasue he was tired etc would go against tha fact that He is all powerful, thus going against what the Bible says.

But that is not what I"m saying. I'm saying it's much more likely that God had finished what he had done, in terms of creation, and when Moses wrote that God rested on the seventh day he meant that there was no more work to be done. If you have no more work to do, are you not resting?[/quote:13l56fxc]


If God were simply done working would the word be finished and not rest? Also why bother adding a reference to a seventh day at all? Why not just give the six day account and say God was done. It was written that way on purpose. Perhaps the original writers didn't understand that they implied God was not omnipotent or perhaps they did, but that is certainly the implication.

 

[Nick]

If God were simply done working would the word be finished and not rest? Also why bother adding a reference to a seventh day at all? Why not just give the six day account and say God was done. It was written that way on purpose. Perhaps the original writers didn't understand that they implied God was not omnipotent or perhaps they did, but that is certainly the implication.

Then why put it in? It was obvioulsy done so on purpose. If we come to the idea that the original wiriters (Moses) didn't understand God, and therefore they wrote a mistake, then we reject the idea that the Bible is soley God's word. Let's not go there. What exactly are you suggesting here?

 

[kenmaynard]

If God were simply done working would the word be finished and not rest? Also why bother adding a reference to a seventh day at all? Why not just give the six day account and say God was done. It was written that way on purpose. Perhaps the original writers didn't understand that they implied God was not omnipotent or perhaps they did, but that is certainly the implication.

Then why put it in? It was obvioulsy done so on purpose. If we come to the idea that the original wiriters (Moses) didn't understand God, and therefore they wrote a mistake, then we reject the idea that the Bible is soley God's word. Let's not go there. What exactly are you suggesting here?

I am suggesting that the creation story isn't meant to be taken literally. If we take the creation story literally then God is not all powerful, or Moses got it wrong.

 

[Nick]

If God were simply done working would the word be finished and not rest? Also why bother adding a reference to a seventh day at all? Why not just give the six day account and say God was done. It was written that way on purpose. Perhaps the original writers didn't understand that they implied God was not omnipotent or perhaps they did, but that is certainly the implication.

Then why put it in? It was obvioulsy done so on purpose. If we come to the idea that the original wiriters (Moses) didn't understand God, and therefore they wrote a mistake, then we reject the idea that the Bible is soley God's word. Let's not go there. What exactly are you suggesting here?

I am suggesting that the creation story isn't meant to be taken literally. If we take the creation story literally then God is not all powerful, or Moses got it wrong.

I am saying that we take the creation story as true, and that God created it all. The only part I don't take literally is the time period, as six literal days.

 

[nadab]

Nick_29,

Genesis 2:1, 2 says that "the heavens and the earth and all their army came to their completion. And by the seventh day God came to the completion of his work that he had made, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had made." Does God tire out from his creative work ? Concerning the universe, Isaiah says: "Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one of them is missing...Jehovah, the Creator of the extremities of the earth, is a God to time indefinite. He does not tire out or grow weary."(Isa 40:26, 28) Thus, God never ' tires out or grows weary', but is "vigorous in power".

By the end of the sixth "creative" day, God had brought to completion all his handiwork regarding the earth, but not the universe.(Gen 1:31) The seventh "creative" day was then set aside as a sacred "day of rest" (Ex 20:11), with him desisting from any earthly creative work and allowing it to grow and develop till the earth is "filled" with perfect humans by the end of the seventh "creative" day.(Gen 1:28) Under the Mosaic Law, God told the nation of Israel that they were to work on six days, but the seventh day was to be a sabbath.(Ex 20:8-10) The Hebrew expression yohm hash·shab·bath´ is drawn from the verb sha·vath´, meaning “rest, cease", as at Genesis 2:2 and 8:22.

God purposed that the earth remain forever as mankind's "home", so by the end of the seventh "creative" day, God will indeed have from one end of the earth to the other end, righteous mankind, for Isaiah 11:9 says of animals and mankind living together in harmony, as was true in the Garden of Eden: "They (the animals) shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea."(American Standard Version) He further said that "all the days the earth continues, seed sowing and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night, will never cease.â€(Gen 8:22)

Hence, by the end of the seventh "creative" day, God's purpose for the earth will have come full circle, it being restored to it's original paradise condition, with God "making all things new".(Rev 21:5)

 

[Nick]

Nick_29,

Genesis 2:1, 2 says that "the heavens and the earth and all their army came to their completion. And by the seventh day God came to the completion of his work that he had made, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had made." Does God tire out from his creative work ? Concerning the universe, Isaiah says: "Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one of them is missing...Jehovah, the Creator of the extremities of the earth, is a God to time indefinite. He does not tire out or grow weary."(Isa 40:26, 28) Thus, God never ' tires out or grows weary', but is "vigorous in power".

By the end of the sixth "creative" day, God had brought to completion all his handiwork regarding the earth, but not the universe.(Gen 1:31) The seventh "creative" day was then set aside as a sacred "day of rest" (Ex 20:11), with him desisting from any earthly creative work and allowing it to grow and develop till the earth is "filled" with perfect humans by the end of the seventh "creative" day.(Gen 1:28) Under the Mosaic Law, God told the nation of Israel that they were to work on six days, but the seventh day was to be a sabbath.(Ex 20:8-10) The Hebrew expression yohm hash·shab·bath´ is drawn from the verb sha·vath´, meaning “rest, cease", as at Genesis 2:2 and 8:22.

God purposed that the earth remain forever as mankind's "home", so by the end of the seventh "creative" day, God will indeed have from one end of the earth to the other end, righteous mankind, for Isaiah 11:9 says of animals and mankind living together in harmony, as was true in the Garden of Eden: "They (the animals) shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea."(American Standard Version) He further said that "all the days the earth continues, seed sowing and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night, will never cease.â€(Gen 8:22)

Hence, by the end of the seventh "creative" day, God's purpose for the earth will have come full circle, it being restored to it's original paradise condition, with God "making all things new".(Rev 21:5)

I think we agree with each ohter more than we realise. There is no way that God can ever tire.