Local Flood Theory Calls God An Oath Breaker!

[coffeeelover]

Evidently you do not know the definition of insulting, because in the same paragraph that you said you are not insulting anyone you go on and add more insults...

I have never heard of the "food" myth, do tell!

The continent thing is not in the Bible, it is one of the flood theories. You remember, I tried to have a discussion among fellow Christians and you had to come and derail my topic... you are good at that.

But no one is adding to the flood account. Science is explaining account. The Bible does not go into detail about the anything because there is no need too, but science is the study of God's creation and when scientists study it they often find things that go hand in hand with the Bible, but are not stated in the Bible.

Science and the flood myth contradict each other. Let's do a study. We will email top geologists working for university or oil and mineral companies we will ask them what they believe. Then post our results.

 

[Caroline H]

Actually, I believe the continental breakup idea comes from Genesis 10:25, when it mentions Peleg in the genealogy of Shem.

And CL, when you post that something is completely ridiculous, and chose not to actually engage the argument, that is insulting and not contributing to the discussion. If you disagree, state why, don't just say something like "Rational adults shouldn't perpetuate cult like dogma." If you post in that manner again it will simply get deleted.

 

[coffeeelover]

Actually, I believe the continental breakup idea comes from Genesis 10:25, when it mentions Peleg in the genealogy of Shem.

And CL, when you post that something is completely ridiculous, and chose not to actually engage the argument, that is insulting and not contributing to the discussion. If you disagree, state why, don't just say something like "Rational adults shouldn't perpetuate cult like dogma." If you post in that manner again it will simply get deleted.

Just a few reasons. God is not evil. God that drownes babies is evil. The story is not supported by history or geology. It is not logical on its face. No wooden boat can be that big. What did the predators eat. All plants would have died being underwater for so many months. Rainbows didn't exist before flood?

 

[Sinthesis]

I find the OP insulting.:bigfrown

I believe in what some might call a local flood, but one that affected the entire "known" world, nearly the entire physical earth, and bottlenecked our world's cultural history in a way that has never been repeated.

Does this mean I am calling God an oath breaker? Of course not.

The assertion that your's is the only way to interpret the flood account minimizes all the theoretical gymnastics that one must perform to accept it. This approach drives some to declare the account a myth.

I choose to perform moderate tumbling on both sides of the equation to arrive at an answer satisfactory to both scripture and observation. But I do not scream "HERETIC" at those who don't accept it.

 

[kiwimac]

The archaeological evidence does not support a world wide flood. The existence of freshwater and saltwater fishes does not support a world wide flood nor yet does the existence of a diversity of plants. The flood was a local event writ large by humans long afterwards. If we add in the impossibility of animals from far distant places reaching Noah and the problems inherent in a wooden ship of that size we can see that the flood story is a metaphor.

 

[jasoncran]

The archaeological evidence does not support a world wide flood. The existence of freshwater and saltwater fishes does not support a world wide flood nor yet does the existence of a diversity of plants. The flood was a local event writ large by humans long afterwards. If we add in the impossibility of animals from far distant places reaching Noah and the problems inherent in a wooden ship of that size we can see that the flood story is a metaphor.

men like king david, solomon and also the man beltashazarr were once thought to just as mythical.

 

[coffeeelover]

men like king david, solomon and also the man beltashazarr were once thought to just as mythical.

You didn't address any points. Also how does the existance of these men compare the flood story which defies logical reality?

 

[jasoncran]

so does the the statement by men like hawkins who know thats there's no god and that the multiverse has universe with its own set of differing laws of physics.

google that , and if you want to i posted that link in the thread geocentrism thread.

for me that is a just much faith to believe that.

why do even believe that jesus died and rose on the cross? or do you not? Do you accept the miracles he did?

 

[coffeeelover]

so does the the statement by men like hawkins who know thats there's no god and that the multiverse has universe with its own set of differing laws of physics.

google that , and if you want to i posted that link in the thread geocentrism thread.

for me that is a just much faith to believe that.

Jason. Whether or not the Arch story is possible has nothing to do with the thought experiments of a crippled mathematician who only deals with the abstract. Hawking does not work in any real science. He is nothing but a number cruncher.

People don't live hundreds of years.

A boat that large made of wood isn't sea worthy, not to mention the impossibility of building one.

How did the animals get to the arch. What did the predators eat. What did the herbivores eat once they got off the arch. 7 months under water would kill the plants.

Floods always leave tell tale signs archeologists nor geologists can identify any for a wold wide flood.

Finally and most troublesome. This supposedly 4000 years ago. So 4000 years ago all humans except 8 people died, but how can that be since there is history of people living then?

 

[Caroline H]

A boat that large made of wood isn't sea worthy, not to mention the impossibility of building one.

How do you know this? Do you have information about it?

How did the animals get to the arch. What did the predators eat. What did the herbivores eat once they got off the arch. 7 months under water would kill the plants.

The Israelites wandered in the wilderness for 40 years, yet God sustained them with manna everyday, and did not allow their clothes to deteriorate... You're talking about the God who made this universe, I believe he can sustain an ark full of animals for a year...

Floods always leave tell tale signs archeologists nor geologists can identify any for a wold wide flood.

Finally and most troublesome. This supposedly 4000 years ago. So 4000 years ago all humans except 8 people died, but how can that be since there is history of people living then?

Once again, it comes down to the interpretation of the evidence. But you don't agree with the interpretation of the many scientists who interpret the evidence as being the result of a global flood, so... But it doesn't make you right just because you believe it can't be so.

 

[Pard]

People don't live hundreds of years.

Not anymore. Man has become corrupted by sin and it has led to his ever declining age...

A boat that large made of wood isn't sea worthy,

Do explain this. Have you every built a boat that big? Have you even built a boat? You do know that they said the Spruce Goose was an impossible thing and yet that plane, made entirely of wood and larger than almost any other plane, flew.

not to mention the impossibility of building one.

Nothing is impossible with God. Plus, why couldn't Noah make it? You think a bunch of crazy guys who wore fake beards on their chins can make a bunch of pyramids out of rock... but some guy cannot make a big wooden boat with the help of God?

How did the animals get to the arch.

Walking...

What did the predators eat.

Whatever God gave them.

What did the herbivores eat once they got off the arch.

Herbivore foods.

7 months under water would kill the plants.

Not really. Plants survive pyroclastic flows all the time. Go get a bunch of seeds and soak them in water for 7 months, they will still bloom. Seeds are amazing little things and God gave them the ability to "know" when to open and when not to. That and God orchestrated this whole thing, don't you have faith that God can sow a few seeds here and there?

Floods always leave tell tale signs archeologists nor geologists can identify any for a wold wide flood.

Really? That's weird they must not be looking. Plenty of archeologists and geologists have found evidence. Some recognize it and are truthful and then get ridiculed and called idiots. The rest call the evidence something else. I see the evidence everyday. I live in America, it did not exist before the flood. The geologic column is evidence. Ever drive down a highway where they blew through rock? Look at the rock, that is evidence of the flood. Ever seen the Grand Canyon? It was made after the flood because of extra water that did not sink into the ocean trenches.

Finally and most troublesome. This supposedly 4000 years ago. So 4000 years ago all humans except 8 people died, but how can that be since there is history of people living then?

Chronology is wrong.

 

[coffeeelover]

How do you know this? Do you have information about it?



The Israelites wandered in the wilderness for 40 years, yet God sustained them with manna everyday, and did not allow their clothes to deteriorate... You're talking about the God who made this universe, I believe he can sustain an ark full of animals for a year...



Once again, it comes down to the interpretation of the evidence. But you don't agree with the interpretation of the many scientists who interpret the evidence as being the result of a global flood, so... But it doesn't make you right just because you believe it can't be so.

How do you exain that there were people who'a history we know at the time the flood was supposed to have happened?

 

[Caroline H]

How do you exain that there were people who'a history we know at the time the flood was supposed to have happened?

Sorry, I don't understand the question.

 

[coffeeelover]

Sorry, I don't understand the question.

The flood is supposed to have happened 4000 years ago. There is written history in Egypt that goes back farther. We also know people were in China and other places as well.

 

[Pard]

The flood is supposed to have happened 4000 years ago. There is written history in Egypt that goes back farther. We also know people were in China and other places as well.

Egypt did not form until roughly 3150BC... not sure how they could have Egyptian writings from before this time. Maybe you mean prehistory Egyptian artifacts. In this case you should know that the dating on these things is speculation. A historian puts a date on an artifact but the date is AROUND that time and can very from a few hundred years to a thousand years.

Also, I am not sure if you are familiar with chronology but Biblical chronology is currently undergoing a shift. People now believe Exodus began in 2500BC, that is 1000 years earlier than they thought before.

 

[coffeeelover]

Egypt did not form until roughly 3150BC... not sure how they could have Egyptian writings from before

3150 BC is over 5000 years ago. That is before the flood which supposedly happened 4000 years ago

 

[walter]

If you believe in a localized flood, as opposed to a global flood, than you are calling God a liar and an oath breaker.

(Gen 8:21 NAU)

Now for me this is a VERY easy passage to understand. God will never again call upon a flood to cover the ENTIRE world in water.

If you believe in a local flood, as opposed to a global one, then you must also believe God was saying He would never again call upon a flood to cover a PART of the world in water.

There are floods all the time all around the world. So I cannot see how a local flood theory would lead to anything but God being called a liar. Of course we have to set aside the Biblical evidence for a local flood theory to even exist, so right there God is being called a liar, that or you have to admit the Bible is just a bunch of words by men.

That's not at all what this verse says. I think you read way too much into scripture. This verse says He will never destroy all life. That's a far cry from just saying He will never flood the Earth. I do believe in a world-wide flood and not a local flood but seriously, I think you're straining at gnats here, so to speak.

 

[Pard]

3150 BC is over 5000 years ago. That is before the flood which supposedly happened 4000 years ago

Sorry, I thought you were saying 4000BC!

In any case, Chronology to the rescue!

 

[Pard]

Also remember, the flood "officially" ended in roughly 2343. In 2242 the Tower of Babel was destroyed. That is almost exactly 100 years. Archeologically speaking it would be hard to tell if writing in Egypt stopped for 100 years or so. It is very possible the Egyptians began their reign, the flood killed them, then new people came and declared themselves Egyptians. Interestingly enough the Old Kingdom is said to start somewhere between 3000 and 2100 BC, that is a HUGE time for it to have started. It is possible the Old Kingdom was actually post-flood.

Now the reason I bring up chronology is because it is also very possible that our date for the flood is wrong. They are now questioning the date of Exodus by 500 to 1000 years. If we push the flood date back 500 to 1000 years what then? Well, it would be placed BEFORE Egypt, for one thing.

 

[coffeeelover]

Sorry, I thought you were saying 4000BC!

In any case, Chronology to the rescue!

The Chronology of Egypt is well established. Let's also not forget the peoples of China.

You seem to be making things up as you go along.