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  • Thread starter Thread starter MISFIT
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That's part of a traction motor from a diesel locomotive. Now here's the mystery. There are no tracks to the Pentagon.
Well, maybe there was... hmm. A big cover up you bet. I'll wager if one digs down a scant 8 inches or so you'll find those tracks!! BUT you are NOT allowed anywhere near there. Either they were moving all the heavy stuff from Roswell for safe keeping under the Pentagon or Soul Train jumped track. Now what in the world would Soul Train be doing at the Pentagon? Ah, another mystery! Another cover up! Must investigate!
 
Alright then Handy you go on believing everything you told, and thinking that the world runs on sunshine and rainbows. Look I don't care what you think I handle those engines with my own hands 6 days a week, I may not know what that piece is or where it came from, but I do know what it's not. So if you want to believe that on 9/11 for the first time in history two of the worlds largest, well constructed skyscrapers collapse on top of them selves due to a fire on the upper floors, go ahead. If you want to believe that our government is so much better than all the other leaders throughout history, and are not in the least bit corrupt, go ahead. I however will continue to question what man tells me, listen only to GOD and always seek truth. I mourn for the thousands lost on that day, they all died for no reason. The difference is you like so many others think just what you were told to think that they were killed by people attacking our nation for religious and hate filled reasons, I how ever believe that just like the Roman citizens under Nero who died in the fire started by their own leaders, that they were killed as an excuse to start a needless war, and to rally the people to an incompetent leader.
 
cid_E1B683BACB9E477A8FB4F2E9C6BA5F6.jpg

Your close, doubt and fear make people first uncomfortable then angry and that's how wars break out. Take this post for example, uncomfortable and fearful, but nothing happens but what the almighty lets happen. We the U.S. have rejected Gods Son and what abides on the unbelieving?
Wrath, his Son made this statement..from James

Chapter 4

1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Is this off topic? :smt018

MISFIT said:
Alright then Handy you go on believing everything you told, and thinking that the world runs on sunshine and rainbows. Look I don't care what you think I handle those engines with my own hands 6 days a week, I may not know what that piece is or where it came from, but I do know what it's not. So if you want to believe that on 9/11 for the first time in history two of the worlds largest, well constructed skyscrapers collapse on top of them selves due to a fire on the upper floors, go ahead. If you want to believe that our government is so much better than all the other leaders throughout history, and are not in the least bit corrupt, go ahead. I however will continue to question what man tells me, listen only to GOD and always seek truth. I mourn for the thousands lost on that day, they all died for no reason. The difference is you like so many others think just what you were told to think that they were killed by people attacking our nation for religious and hate filled reasons, I how ever believe that just like the Roman citizens under Nero who died in the fire started by their own leaders, that they were killed as an excuse to start a needless war, and to rally the people to an incompetent leader.
 
Misfit sweetie, calm down. OK, so I like Kool-aid. All I'm pointing out is that you seem partial to Kool-aid, yourself. You said that you will continue to question what man tells you. Well and good. I hope that you would question Avery just as much as you question the 9/11 Commission and the Warren Commission. Avery's track record is no better than either. Worse actually. We don't have a third rewrite of the 9/11 Commission or the "Warren Report Part 3".

Seriously, I do hope that you will at least check out the Popular Mechanic's report debunking the some of the theories:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... tml?page=1


Potluck, one of these days, in our spare time, you and I will have to discuss the Lone Gunman. Yet another example of me drinking Kool-aid. I happen to believe firmly that Oswald had the skill and the motivation to act alone in killing JFK, and that the only reason why folks think there was gunfire from the grassy knoll is based upon gunfire echos, a staticky open radio, and as a firm desire to throw as much mud at our government then as some desire to do now. :wink:

Turnorburn, first ice-cube sittin smilies and now gun-totin', ceegar-chomping, yappy dogs. Friend, have you ever heard of Gifs Anonymous. :-D
 
monkey.gif

Well I'll be a monkeys Uncle again, no I didn't know there was a place like that,
so don't be stingy wheres the link, and no it wasn't Oswald he was drugged had
that rifle placed next to him the gunfire woke him up he saw the driver of the
limo reach over his right shoulder and blow Kennedy's brains out all over Jackie
when she saw the driver do that she freaked out and made a mad dash to get
away from him, not her husband as most believe. Now wheres that link? :smt017
 
I believe the Kennedy assassination was the one that popularized conspiracy theories. A lot of people got attention that normally would have remained unknown.
 
Conspiracy theories do serve a good purpose though. The make lots and lots of money for the authors and publishers, keep The History Channel programmed and thereby help the economy.

Not to mention, they gave us these guys, and come on, you gotta love these guys:

lonegunmenlm9.jpg
 
A lot of people got a free ride concerning Roswell. That one got a LOT of mileage and is still rather popular.
 
Come on handy some of these kids don't remember Herman's Hermits Sheesh! :smt018

handy said:
Conspiracy theories do serve a good purpose though. The make lots and lots of money for the authors and publishers, keep The History Channel programmed and thereby help the economy.

Not to mention, they gave us these guys, and come on, you gotta love these guys:

lonegunmenlm9.jpg
 
Look I don't believe every think I hear! I happen to believe that Oswald did in fact act alone. I have looked at the popular mechanics debunking, and Avery's film is not the only place I get my info. There are many other people saying the same things, and if you actually take the time to look at it a lot of it makes sense.
 
MISFIT said:
Alright then Handy you go on believing everything you told, and thinking that the world runs on sunshine and rainbows. Look I don't care what you think I handle those engines with my own hands 6 days a week, I may not know what that piece is or where it came from, but I do know what it's not. So if you want to believe that on 9/11 for the first time in history two of the worlds largest, well constructed skyscrapers collapse on top of them selves due to a fire on the upper floors, go ahead. If you want to believe that our government is so much better than all the other leaders throughout history, and are not in the least bit corrupt, go ahead. I however will continue to question what man tells me, listen only to GOD and always seek truth. I mourn for the thousands lost on that day, they all died for no reason. The difference is you like so many others think just what you were told to think that they were killed by people attacking our nation for religious and hate filled reasons, I how ever believe that just like the Roman citizens under Nero who died in the fire started by their own leaders, that they were killed as an excuse to start a needless war, and to rally the people to an incompetent leader.
Yeah, it was the FIRE that took down the towers, not the impact of multi-ton planes slamming into them at hundreds of miles per hour, destroying their structural integrity.
 
There was only 3 buildings in the history of the world that went down like the 9/11 attacks. They were tower A & B and building #7 they all went down on the same day.

Quick notes.

1. The building was reinforced due to earlier attacks.
2. The odds of a building coming down like that are more then the odds of evolution.
3. Termite is the only substance that could melt steel that fast. (with the aid of explosives)
4. The WTC was brought down to fuel the war. the terrorists and the hijacking may have been real, but no effort was put forth to bring down the 2 planes. For instance they could have shot the planes down.
 
Sigh. I know that it's true that there are those who have eyes but do not see, ears but do not hear, but for those who have even a modicum of an open mind, here are the facts:

"Melted" Steel
Claim: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."
FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength  and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."


Puffs Of Dust
Claim: As each tower collapsed, clearly visible puffs of dust and debris were ejected from the sides of the buildings. An advertisement in The New York Times for the book Painful Questions: An Analysis Of The September 11th Attack made this claim: "The concrete clouds shooting out of the buildings are not possible from a mere collapse. They do occur from explosions." Numerous conspiracy theorists cite Van Romero, an explosives expert and vice president of the New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology, who was quoted on 9/11 by the Albuquerque Journal as saying "there were some explosive devices inside the buildings that caused the towers to collapse." The article continues, "Romero said the collapse of the structures resembled those of controlled implosions used to demolish old structures."

FACT: Once each tower began to collapse, the weight of all the floors above the collapsed zone bore down with pulverizing force on the highest intact floor. Unable to absorb the massive energy, that floor would fail, transmitting the forces to the floor below, allowing the collapse to progress downward through the building in a chain reaction. Engineers call the process "pancaking," and it does not require an explosion to begin, according to David Biggs, a structural engineer at Ryan-Biggs Associates and a member of the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) team that worked on the FEMA report.

Like all office buildings, the WTC towers contained a huge volume of air. As they pancaked, all that air  along with the concrete and other debris pulverized by the force of the collapse  was ejected with enormous energy. "When you have a significant portion of a floor collapsing, it's going to shoot air and concrete dust out the window," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder tells PM. Those clouds of dust may create the impression of a controlled demolition, Sunder adds, "but it is the floor pancaking that leads to that perception."

Demolition expert Romero regrets that his comments to the Albuquerque Journal became fodder for conspiracy theorists. "I was misquoted in saying that I thought it was explosives that brought down the building," he tells PM. "I only said that that's what it looked like."

Romero, who agrees with the scientific conclusion that fire triggered the collapses, demanded a retraction from the Journal. It was printed Sept. 22, 2001. "I felt like my scientific reputation was on the line." But emperors-clothes.com saw something else: "The paymaster of Romero's research institute is the Pentagon. Directly or indirectly, pressure was brought to bear, forcing Romero to retract his original statement." Romero responds: "Conspiracy theorists came out saying that the government got to me. That is the farthest thing from the truth. This has been an albatross around my neck for three years."

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... ge=4#steel
 
if thermite was used ( i do have my pyro license and i know all about explosives ) then the towers could have easily came down like that no problem.

Here you go handy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9qjgBJi ... re=related

there was molten metal in all "3" buildings, tell me if building #7 was a controlled demolition why was there molten metal present not 1 but all 3 buildings? :wink:

Thermite is used a lot to bring down tall buildings.

Here is the termite dripping out and then the tower falls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOq3HYRi ... re=related
 
wheel_chair-1.gif

A wee bit slow today but these pearls where worth sharing.

Thanks,
turnorburn

You've been doing your homework, before I became disabled I had a Hazardous Materials License
And what your saying is quite informative but like I said before knowledge isn't everything, lets
take this to Ecclesiastes 1:

12 I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem.
13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.
14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
15 That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered.
16 I communed with mine own heart, saying, Lo, I am come to great estate, and have gotten more wisdom than all they that have been before me in Jerusalem: yea, my heart had great experience of wisdom and knowledge.
17 And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit.
18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

The last verse, been there doing that :smt045
 
18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.


I can see how that verse can apply to much, but my knowledge on how to make thermite caused me no sorrow, lol i love melting random things.

So i take it you had an accident?
 
johnmuise said:
There was only 3 buildings in the history of the world that went down like the 9/11 attacks. They were tower A & B and building #7 they all went down on the same day.

Quick notes.

1. The building was reinforced due to earlier attacks.
2. The odds of a building coming down like that are more then the odds of evolution.
3. Termite is the only substance that could melt steel that fast. (with the aid of explosives)
4. The WTC was brought down to fuel the war. the terrorists and the hijacking may have been real, but no effort was put forth to bring down the 2 planes. For instance they could have shot the planes down.


Thank you bro!! Thank you!! Good to see someone paying attention.
 
MISFIT said:
johnmuise said:
There was only 3 buildings in the history of the world that went down like the 9/11 attacks. They were tower A & B and building #7 they all went down on the same day.

Quick notes.

1. The building was reinforced due to earlier attacks.
2. The odds of a building coming down like that are more then the odds of evolution.
3. Termite is the only substance that could melt steel that fast. (with the aid of explosives)
4. The WTC was brought down to fuel the war. the terrorists and the hijacking may have been real, but no effort was put forth to bring down the 2 planes. For instance they could have shot the planes down.


You must chew the meat and spit out the bones with everything in this life.
 
I'm seeing a lot of disjointed comments being made without any substantial evidence to back them up.

For instance:

Yeah, it was the FIRE that took down the towers, not the impact of multi-ton planes slamming into them at hundreds of miles per hour, destroying their structural integrity.

From NIST:

3. How could the WTC towers have collapsed without a controlled demolition since no steel-frame, high-rise buildings have ever before or since been brought down due to fires? Temperatures due to fire don't get hot enough for buildings to collapse.

The collapse of the WTC towers was not caused either by a conventional building fire or even solely by the concurrent multi-floor fires that day. Instead, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large, jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires weakened the now susceptible structural steel. No building in the United States has ever been subjected to the massive structural damage and concurrent multi-floor fires that the towers experienced on Sept. 11, 2001.

3. Termite is the only substance that could melt steel that fast. (with the aid of explosives)

Again from NIST:
7a. How could the steel have melted if the fires in the WTC towers weren’t hot enough to do so?
OR
7b. Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700 degrees Fahrenheit, the temperature of jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800 degrees Fahrenheit and Underwriters Laboratories (UL) certified the steel in the WTC towers to 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit for six hours, how could fires have impacted the steel enough to bring down the WTC towers?

In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires. The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g., jet fuel) fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit). NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example, see NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36).

However, when bare steel reaches temperatures of 1,000 degrees Celsius, it softens and its strength reduces to roughly 10 percent of its room temperature value. Steel that is unprotected (e.g., if the fireproofing is dislodged) can reach the air temperature within the time period that the fires burned within the towers. Thus, yielding and buckling of the steel members (floor trusses, beams, and both core and exterior columns) with missing fireproofing were expected under the fire intensity and duration determined by NIST for the WTC towers.

UL did not certify any steel as suggested. In fact, in U.S. practice, steel is not certified at all; rather structural assemblies are tested for their fire resistance rating in accordance with a standard procedure such as ASTM E 119 (see NCSTAR 1-6B). That the steel was “certified ... to 2000 degrees Fahrenheit for six hours†is simply not true.


There was only 3 buildings in the history of the world that went down like the 9/11 attacks. They were tower A & B and building #7 they all went down on the same day.

There has also been only one recorded incident in the history of the world of massive jumbo jets filled with fuel slamming into building, which no so coincidentally happened on the same day.

2. The odds of a building coming down like that are more then the odds of evolution.

Really, who made this statement and upon what criteria was the statement made?

4. The WTC was brought down to fuel the war. the terrorists and the hijacking may have been real, but no effort was put forth to bring down the 2 planes. For instance they could have shot the planes down.

hmmmm, shooting down a plane filled with innocent civilians before it was fully understood what events were about to take place?
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite [Thermite] Burns at up to up to 2500 °C (4500 °F) which can easily melt steel and has been used in many controlled demolitions in the past.

Yes the post made by handy sounds reasonable, but everybody knows a coin has 2 sides.


There has also been only one recorded incident in the history of the world of massive jumbo jets filled with fuel slamming into building, which no so coincidentally happened on the same day.

Indeed. Then explain to me building number 7.

Really, who made this statement and upon what criteria was the statement made?
Me, because of all the contradicting evidance.

hmmmm, shooting down a plane filled with innocent civilians before it was fully understood what events were about to take place?

Protocol. Sometimes its better to shoot the hostage. A civilian airliner thats deviating form course given multiple warnings to correct said course, puts it under great suspicion. Of course nobody knew *cough* what the planes were going to do, but protocol gives orders to shoot down any aircraft failing to heed warnings given by miltary official."

But lets say that somehow the first plane made it through all this "red tape", the second plane should have been shot down immediately.

EDIT: here is an example of protocol.

In the miltary i have a sentry position. What i do is this.

I hold a position, if i encounter anyone i must say " Halt, Advance one to be recognized" the potential enemy will then raise his weapon above his head and walk forward.

When he is about 10 feet away i say "Halt"

Then i issue the challenge. the password is potato.

I say "Papa, Papa" , the other person must respond "Oscar, Oscar"

If he does not answer i say again. "Papa, Papa"

If the guy fails once more or answers with say "Alpha, Alpha" he has thus failed the test, regardless of his intentions i have to remove the potential threat, me and my hidden gunner shoot the guy and his followers.

NO EXCEPTION.

the same is for miltary aircraft. in this case the offender was a civilian aircraft.

Never in this recorded history of this world has this golden rule been broke except for 9/11
 
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