Losing salvation

[tdidymas]

Yes His sheep who become lost need salvation.

Do you agree?

Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

And you and I also need salvation, even though already saved. After being saved, we still need the Savior. But the issue is that once having eternal life, it can't be lost, because Paul clearly states that the Holy Spirit given to us (and lives in us) is a guarantee of our inheritance until complete redemption is realized (Eph. 1:14). The "seal" means that we cannot escape God's grasp. But then, who in God's grasp would want to escape it? Only those who are not saved from their sinful nature and thus are still captive to the devil.

Heb. 2:15 shows us that anyone who has to keep himself safe spiritually for fear of eternal condemnation is still under the power of Satan, and is in bondage. It says that Jesus released us from that fear, and this is the peace we have that results from being justified as a free gift of God (Rom. 3:24). There is no such thing in scripture as becoming unjustified after being justified, just as there is no such thing as losing eternal life after obtaining it. Since eternal life is a free gift from God, and is the promise of God, God does not renege on His promise for any reason, including our failure to get all our duckies in a row.

So the whole point is that the correct model is that we are in God's hands. The incorrect model is that eternal life is in our hands. For the true born-again believer, God is in control of us. We are not in control of eternal life. God has the final say, we don't. Then, the only option we have (which is not really an option) is to trust God with our eternal future. Do you agree?

 

[Blain DeCastro]

Amen! In context, we see that Jesus is directing this parable to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying that Jesus receives sinners and eats with them, while failing to recognize because of pride and self-righteousness that they were sinners themselves. The main point of this parable is not that a Christian lost their salvation and had to regain it back again, but the absolute importance of finding the one lost sheep -- there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

This parable does not teach that this one "sheep" was saved and lost their salvation and had to get saved all over again. In Matthew 5:5, we read - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

In Luke 19:10, we read - for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost. Not lost their salvation and had to get saved all over again.

Yes exactly also it is good to see you my friend I haven't seen you on cc for a good while but yes the verse doesn't say anything about one being saved athen losing it then regaining it again it speaks of the lost and note it first says lost not saved then lost just lost.

This is a classic case of someone trying to make scripture say something it isn't

 

[JLB]

This would make sense except if you look at who he was talking to he was talking about Israel who were already lost they were not saved and thus did not lose their salvation to begin with because they never had it to begin with

Then all the tax collectors and the sinners drew near to Him to hear Him. And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them.” So He spoke this parable to them, saying:
“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Sorry but this teaching is about people not the nation of Israel.


How about the prodigal son?

It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:32

 

[Blain DeCastro]

Then all the tax collectors and the sinners drew near to Him to hear Him. And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them.” So He spoke this parable to them, saying:
“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Sorry but this teaching is about people not the nation of Israel.


How about the prodigal son?

It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:32

Ok yeah that is speaking of the tax collectors and sinners which by the way were of Israel because the gentiles were not allowed in the synagogue plus Jersus even says here that he came for the people of Israel not the gentiles Matthew 15:24, Jesus states, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel".

Also the verses you showed have nothing to do with someone being saved then losing their salvation it is speaking of the lost being saved

 

[Oseas]

This would make sense except if you look at who he was talking to he was talking about Israel who were already lost they were not saved and thus did not lose their salvation to begin with because they never had it to begin with

Your message above made me to remember of Matthew 23:27-35.

 

[Oseas]

Ok yeah that is speaking of the tax collectors and sinners which by the way were of Israel because the gentiles were not allowed in the synagogue plus Jersus even says here that he came for the people of Israel not the gentiles Matthew 15:24, Jesus states, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel".

Also the verses you showed have nothing to do with someone being saved then losing their salvation it is speaking of the lost being saved

John 10:11-31 and so on
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold(the Gentiles): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice(John 17:6-9); and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

19There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.

20And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

21Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

22And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

23And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30I and my Father are one.

31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.

 

[Blain DeCastro]

Your message above made me to remember of Matthew 23:27-35.

How so?

 

[Blain DeCastro]

Your message above made me to remember of Matthew 23:27-35.

John 10:11-31 and so on
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold(the Gentiles): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice(John 17:6-9); and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

19There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.

20And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

21Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

22And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

23And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30I and my Father are one.

31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.

So why do you suppose he stated he came for only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel? Also if your first post was refering to me then you are free to your opinion but you need to show me how you came to that conclusion or else it is just an opinion

 

[Oseas]

How so?

As you said, "He was talking about Israel who were already lost".

Dialogue between Jews and JESUS: John 8KJV

JEWS said: - We be Abraham's seed,...John 8:33KJV

- JESUS said: - I know that ye are Abraham's seed...John 8:37KJV (Positive, they really are seed of Abraham)

JEWS said: - Abraham is our father.... John 8:39KJV

- JESUS said:- If ye were Abraham's children...John 8:39KJV (If???? hum!!! Were not they Abraham's children? Are the Jews Abraham's seed, but not Abraham's children?)

JEWS said: - We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. John 8:41KJV

- JESUS said: - If GOD were your Father...John 8:42 (agains If???? hum!!!)

- JESUS said to the Jews: Why do ye not understand my speech? John 8:43

- JESUS openly and emphaticaly said to the Jews: Ye are of your father the Devil..., John 8:44. -

By the way, in Revelation 12:9 , JESUS said:

9 - And the great Dragon (the red Dragon) was (will be) cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his messengers were cast out with him.

By the way, "red Dragon" is the new name of the Devil in this current time of Apocalypse.

Similarity between passing by the Red Sea and by the Red Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - PUT THIS IN YOUR MIND ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - THE RED SEA AND THE RED DRAGON ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea, and walk through a desert, walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of...

purebibleforum.com

 

[Blain DeCastro]

As you said, "He was talking about Israel who were already lost".

Dialogue between Jews and JESUS: John 8KJV

JEWS said: - We be Abraham's seed,...John 8:33KJV

- JESUS said: - I know that ye are Abraham's seed...John 8:37KJV (Positive, they really are seed of Abraham)

JEWS said: - Abraham is our father.... John 8:39KJV

- JESUS said:- If ye were Abraham's children...John 8:39KJV (If???? hum!!! Were not they Abraham's children? Are the Jews Abraham's seed, but not Abraham's children?)

JEWS said: - We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. John 8:41KJV

- JESUS said: - If GOD were your Father...John 8:42 (agains If???? hum!!!)

- JESUS said to the Jews: Why do ye not understand my speech? John 8:43

- JESUS openly and emphaticaly said to the Jews: Ye are of your father the Devil..., John 8:44. -

By the way, in Revelation 12:9 , JESUS said:

9 - And the great Dragon (the red Dragon) was (will be) cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his messengers were cast out with him.

By the way, "red Dragon" is the new name of the Devil in this current time of Apocalypse.

Similarity between passing by the Red Sea and by the Red Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - PUT THIS IN YOUR MIND ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - THE RED SEA AND THE RED DRAGON ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea, and walk through a desert, walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of...

purebibleforum.com

Forgive me if I am mistaken I didn't sleep last night so my understanding may not be the best but doesn't this prove what I said? were they not lost and needing to be saved?

 

[Oseas]

So why do you suppose he stated he came for only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel? Also if your first post was refering to me then you are free to your opinion but you need to show me how you came to that conclusion or else it is just an opinion

John 1:11-13 and 6-10:
11He came unto His own, and His own received Him not.
12But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of GOD, even to them (Jews and Gentiles) that believe on His name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of GOD.


6There was a man sent from GOD->(Isaiah 40:1-5), whose name was John.
7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through Him might believe.
8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.->(The Greater Light-Genesis 1:16 and 3)

9That was the true Light(The Greater Light-Genesis 1:3 and 16) which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10He was in the world->(Genesis 1:1 and John 17:5), and the world was made by Him(Hebrews 1:2), and the world knew him not.

 

[Blain DeCastro]

John 1:11-13 and 6-10:
11He came unto His own, and His own received Him not.
12But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of GOD, even to them (Jews and Gentiles) that believe on His name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of GOD.


6There was a man sent from GOD->(Isaiah 40:1-5), whose name was John.
7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through Him might believe.
8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.->(The Greater Light-Genesis 1:16 and 3)

9That was the true Light(The Greater Light-Genesis 1:3 and 16) which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10He was in the world->(Genesis 1:1 and John 17:5), and the world was made by Him(Hebrews 1:2), and the world knew him not.

So which part then shows that they had salvation then lost it?

 

[Oseas]

Forgive me if I am mistaken I didn't sleep last night so my understanding may not be the best but doesn't this prove what I said? were they not lost and needing to be saved?

My point was only to share, bringing or adding more Scriptures to show the why they were lost. As we know, only a remnant of Israel(144K) will be saved. -> Isaiah 10:2-23 (combined with Revelation 7):

22For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.
23For the Lord God of hosts shall make a consumption->(Revelation 14:17-20), even determined, in the midst of all the land.

 

[JLB]

But the issue is that once having eternal life, it can't be lost,

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Being In Christ is eternal life.

If we remain in Christ, then we continue to have eternal life.

Eternal life is knowing Him.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

If we wander away from Christ because of sin, then we certainly can indeed become separated from Him, and thus become separated from the eternal life that is only found in Christ.


The teaching of the lost sheep clearly emphasizes this truth.


His sheep who become lost are separated from Him and are called sinners, who need
Repentance and must return and be reconciled back to Him.


Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:6-7

• I have found my sheep which was lost!’
• there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

His sheep who become lost, because of sin, must repent and return and be restored.


It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ Luke 15:32


The son who became lost repented and returned and was reconciled.

 

[tdidymas]

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Being In Christ is eternal life.

If we remain in Christ, then we continue to have eternal life.

Eternal life is knowing Him.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

If we wander away from Christ because of sin, then we certainly can indeed become separated from Him, and thus become separated from the eternal life that is only found in Christ.


The teaching of the lost sheep clearly emphasizes this truth.


His sheep who become lost are separated from Him and are called sinners, who need
Repentance and must return and be reconciled back to Him.


Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:6-7

• I have found my sheep which was lost!’
• there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

His sheep who become lost, because of sin, must repent and return and be restored.


It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ Luke 15:32


The son who became lost repented and returned and was reconciled.

You have your salvation chronology screwed up because of your unbelieving traditional bias, which is the dogma that a person saved from sin can go back to it and be lost forever. All these verses about lost people are prior to their being saved, found, etc. There is nothing about saved and found people becoming unsaved and lost again, so your interpretation is faulty.

If someone is "My sheep" to Jesus, then He fully intends to bring them into the fold and save them forever. He said, "My sheep hear My voice and they follow Me." The ones who did not follow Him were not His sheep. But of His sheep, He said, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." Notice it says "never perish." "Never" is a term that proves to us that eternal life can't be lost, because we are in Christ's grasp. His grasp is inescapable, because those who believe in Him know Him and know His voice and follow Him.

So if anyone "goes back to sin" and are lost forever, this is the scripture that applies to them: "They went out from us to show that they were not of us." IOW, anyone who apostates is someone who is NOT BORN AGAIN!!

Further, the warning to the disciples that if anyone does not bear fruit they are cut off, is a warning to would-be apostates who are not born again, and who do not abide in Christ. Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is one, as proven by Jesus' words, "Not everyone who calls Me 'Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven." Not everyone who claims to have faith in Jesus has saving faith, as proven by James' words, "faith without works is dead." James is saying this in agreement with Jesus' words, that one proves to be in the faith by the deeds they do, satisfying Jesus' words, "by their fruit you shall know them."

So if you continue to argue the point by your misinterpretation of scripture, pitting scripture against scripture, then I think this conversation is over. You obviously don't agree and never will, so I will leave you to your traditional dogma.

 

[JLB]

You have your salvation chronology screwed up because of your unbelieving traditional bias, which is the dogma that a person saved from sin can go back to it and be lost forever. All these verses about lost people are prior to their being saved, found, etc. There is nothing about saved and found people becoming unsaved and lost again, so your interpretation is faulty.

If someone is "My sheep" to Jesus, then He fully intends to bring them into the fold and save them forever. He said, "My sheep hear My voice and they follow Me." The ones who did not follow Him were not His sheep. But of His sheep, He said, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." Notice it says "never perish." "Never" is a term that proves to us that eternal life can't be lost, because we are in Christ's grasp. His grasp is inescapable, because those who believe in Him know Him and know His voice and follow Him.

Basically what you are saying is the teaching of Jesus Christ about the Prodigal Son, and the lost sheep doesn’t pertain to you.

If that is what you believe then so be it, that is your choice.

Again, eternal life is about a quality of life, not so much a quantity.

I don’t believe having a quantity of life apart from knowing Him would be beneficial to anyone.

If we know Him, then we are in Him, joined to Him and are one Spirit with Him.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

Jesus plainly and clearly warned His disciples to remain in Him.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

To say we “know Him” but we don’t obey Him means we are a liar.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

The way we are instructed to remain in Christ, is by keeping His commandments.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


Here is one sure fire way to find ourselves on the outside looking in as it pertains to Christ and eternal life… and that is anger and hatred.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

Christians who refuse to forgive and are bitter and eventually hate other people no longer have eternal life remaining in them.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Ok yeah that is speaking of the tax collectors and sinners which by the way were of Israel because the gentiles were not allowed in the synagogue plus Jersus even says here that he came for the people of Israel not the gentiles Matthew 15:24, Jesus states, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel".

Also the verses you showed have nothing to do with someone being saved then losing their salvation it is speaking of the lost being saved

So you don’t believe this teaching concerning the lost sheep pertains to you or the Church?

“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Matthew 18:12-17

 

[Blain DeCastro]

So you don’t believe this teaching concerning the lost sheep pertains to you or the Church?

“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Matthew 18:12-17

No I do believe it but it is speaking of prior to salvation as far as I can tell, he doesn't call the sheep saved he calls it a lost sheep now if he had called it saved then maybe yes but he refered to it as lost

 

[Oseas]

So which part then shows that they had salvation then lost it?

1Corintians 10:1-5KJV
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the CLOUD (God's Glory) and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all BAPTIZED unto Moses in the CLOUD and in the SEA;

3 And did all eat the same SPIRITUAL meat;
4 And did all drink the same SPIRITUAL drink: for they drank of that SPIRITUAL Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5 But with many of them GOD was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

Psalms 78
23 Though He had commanded the clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven,
24 And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven.
25 Man did eat angels' food: He sent them meat to the full.
32 For all this they sinned still, and believed not for His wondrous works.

31 The wrath of GOD came upon them, and slew the fattest of them, and smote down the CHOSEN men of Israel.
10 They kept not the covenant of GOD and refused to walk in His Law;
11 And forgat His works, and His wonders that He had shewed them.
12 Marvellous things did He in the sight of their fathers, in the land of Egypt, in the field of Zoan.

13 He divided the sea, and caused them to pass through; and He made the waters to stand as an heap.
14 In the daytime also He led them with a CLOUD(GOD's Glory) and all the night with a light of fire.
15 He clave the rocks in the wilderness, and gave them drink as out of the great depths.
16 He brought streams also out of the ROCK (Christ), and caused WATERS to run down like rivers.

17 And they sinned yet more against Him by provoking the most High in the wilderness.
18 And they tempted GOD in their heart by asking meat for their lust.
19 Yea, they spake against GOD; they said, Can GOD furnish a table in the wilderness?

JUDE 1:5 - > I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having SAVED the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.