Losing Salvation

[Eugene]

See? Another OSASer who simply does not understand the argument.

Amen! Now heed the warnings to continue in that faith and grace so you can be saved on the Day of Wrath.

OK Brother Jethro Bodine, even with you I believe the following scripture applies. Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. When we believed we left the shifting sands of Egypt (The world). I truly believe that you don't understand the precepts of the four aspects of salvation, and attempt to lump them together as one and the same which leads to our misunderstanding of our security in Christ.

I know through God's word that any who believe will be saved. I have believed and I am saved now; are you? Yes I know you are by you confession. I am working out my own salvation from the habit and dominion of sin as I follow after the Holy Spirit instead of the flesh and all God to work in me to will and to do after His own pleasure, and one day another expression of salvation will be when I am in the very presence of God saved from the very presence of sin. Eternal life? I received it the moment I believed on Christ as my Savior.

 

[JLB]

Well it appears we have around seven on this thread that have no idea if they're going to heaven, have only conditional life, and I would suppose that they think they keep the law in their own way. I applaud them in their determination to keep themselves in spite of the evidence against them; down deep inside they know they continue to sin, and are not remaining faithful unto the end.

As for me I am determined to believe I have been given eternal life, and am free to continue growing in grace. Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Amen Eugene, I agree with you.

We have been given eternal life, and we do continue to grow in Grace, being transformed into His image...

However, if we should stop believing and turn away from Him who has called us to Himself, and we begin to serve another god, or another religion as it is called today, then there no longer remains the grace the we received when we first believed.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God... Ephesians 2:8

If we no longer have faith, then the salvation we received by the grace of God no longer remains.

If we have faith for salvation, then we have the substance of the salvation we are hoping for...

If we no longer have the faith, which is the very substance itself of the salvation we are hoping for, then we will not "see" or realize the reality of salvation on the Day of Judgement.

Faith is the substance... not something else, Faith is the substance... of the thing you are hoping for.

No faith = No hope of salvation.

That is why we are told not to neglect our salvation.

how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him... Hebrews 2:3



JLB

 

[JLB]

Christians who keep sinning despite divine discipline can actually sin themselves right out of this life and into God’s presence. God does this in order to keep such a one from doing any more damage to himself and to his witness for His Holy Name. “If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death” (1 John 5:16-17). These sins do not cause us to lose our salvation, but they definitely affect our relationship with God and others. We are wise if we never deteriorate to the point of having our consciences seared.


Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/seared-conscience.html#ixzz3GjrMmGiD

Couldn't be further from the truth!

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. 1 Corinthians 5:9-11

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-20


Paul makes it plain and clear!

...those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Will not inherit the kingdom of God = 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41


JLB

 

[JLB]

.

When the Holy Spirit bears witness with your spirit that you are His child.

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. Romans 8:16


JLB

 

[jeff77]

"...we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end" (Hebrews 6:14 NASB)

This one that Jethro posted is one reason why I am non-OSAS. I believe that we have the option to carry out our own will or follow God's commands. Does OSAS say that Christians will somehow endure until the end automatically?

 

[JLB]

"...we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end" (Hebrews 6:14 NASB)

This one that Jethro posted is one reason why I am non-OSAS. I believe that we have the option to carry out our own will or follow God's commands. Does OSAS say that Christians will somehow endure until the end automatically?

Great word Brother!


JLB

 

[RevSRE]

How were we saved in the first place, By works, NO, By service or any other good we do, NO.
We were saved by OUR FAITH in God's Grace. God gave us a choice to Love and Fellowship with Him or not.
There is no power in this universe, Satan included, that can take us from the Grace of God, EXCEPT with drawing MY FAITH.
It is and always will be a choice God allows and wants us to make, Will I serve God or SELF?
Free moral agent means I ALWAYS HAVE that choice, as long as "I" choose to be in Christ I am, IF "I" choose to turn from Him I can.

 

[Deborah13]

How does their believing they were saved differ in any way from those today who believe they are saved?

These people believed in their heart that they would be granted entrance into the Kingdom. Every person today who believes they are saved holds that same belief. What separates the two? What makes that one belief acceptable for some and unacceptable for others? One gets in and the other one doesn't.

What defines the dividing line between those who are accepted and those who aren't?


That should be the question.
.

You are right, that is a very good question.
I think the dividing line is in this scripture.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
.....
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

In your scripture Matthew 7 it tells us the problem these people have, they are lawless. Jesus told the Pharisees that they looked all clean on the outside but on the inside they were not, they lacked kindness and mercy.
My first thought when I think about what God is like is that He is full of grace and mercy. If we are His workmanship then we too will show grace and mercy in good works.
So what comes out of our hearts shows who we really are.

 

[YosefHayim]

There are a few scriptures I'd like to touch on which are used as proof texts for loss of salvation.

Hebrews 10:26 - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

'Sanctified' is one of those words that you need to let the context dictate it's usage. The word literally means 'set apart' and it can apply (and often does) to true believers... but can also apply to objects, places and even people that aren't saved! Look at the following examples of what is said to be sanctified in the Bible:

Nation of Israel (Exodus 19:10)
Mount Sinai (Exodus 19:23)
Breast of the Ram (Exodus 29:27)
The Priests (Exodus 29:41)
The Tabernacle (Exodus 29:36)

In the New Testament we have the interesting verse in 1 Cor 7:14
"For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy."
I can only take from this that where a believer is married to an unbeliever God sees the unbelieving partner (and any children) as 'set apart' or 'sanctified' because of the faith of their partner. Does this mean that the unbeliever is saved? No. But they are said to be sanctified or set apart. I think it would be fair to say that Judas was also 'set apart' as one of the 12 disciples to do the Lord's work, but not saved.
So Heb 10:29 is speaking of those that joined themselves to true believers in the church and in this sense were 'sanctified' or set apart. But they willfully left that going back on their initial belief and decision and went back to Judaism. They are apostates.
Concerning Heb 10:29, the well loved Bible teacher H.A Ironside says the following:
“There is an expression used in these verses that may still perplex and bewilder those who have not apprehended that profession is one thing, and possession another. … He who is sanctified by the one offering of Christ upon the cross, that is, by His precious blood, is perfected forever (Heb. 10:10, 14-19). But in this passage it is equally plain that one who counts the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, shall be forever lost. In order not to miss the true force of this for our souls, it is necessary that we give some attention to what we have already designated ‘positional sanctification.’ Of old all the people of Israel, and all who were associated with them, were set apart to God both on the night of the Passover and afterwards in the wilderness. But this did not necessarily imply a work of the Spirit in their souls. Many were doubtless in the blood-sprinkled houses that solemn night, when the destroying angel passed through to smite the unsheltered first-born, who had no real faith in God. Yet they were by the blood of the Lamb put in a place of blessing, a position where they shared in many hallowed privileges. So afterward with those who were under the cloud and passed through the sea, being baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea. All were in the same position. All shared the same outward blessings. But the wilderness was the place of testing, and soon proved who were real and who were not. At the present time God has no special nation, to be allied to which is to come into a position of outward nearness to Him. But He has a people who have been redeemed to Himself out of all kindreds and tongues and peoples and nations, by the precious blood of the Lamb of God. All who ally themselves by profession with that company are outwardly among the blood-sheltered: in this sense they are sanctified by the blood of the covenant. That blood stands for Christianity, which in its very essence is the proclamation of salvation through Christ’s atoning death. To take the Christian place therefore is like entering the blood-sprinkled house. All who are real, who have judged themselves before God, and truely confided in his grace, will remain in that house. If they go out, it proves their unreality and such can find no other sacrifice for sins; for all the typical offerings are done away in Christ. These are they of whom the apostle John speaks so solemnly: ‘They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us’ (1 John 2:19). As they were ever bereft of faith in the soul, they ‘went out,’ and thus did despite to the Spirit of grace, and counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith they were sanctified, an unholy thing. These sin wilfully, not in the sense of failing to walk uprightly merely, but as utterly abjuring, or apostatizing from, Christianity, after having become conversant with the glorious message it brings to lost men”
(H.A. Ironside, Holiness: The False and the True, pp. 63-65).
Hope this helps. SOURCE: http://www.jesusplusnothing.com/questions/sanctified.htm
​

Also notice in verse 29 it says "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" I don't believe that this is talking about someone that is saved due to the verse which says "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." 1 Corinthians 12:3

Hebrews 10 ends saying that we are not of those unbelievers, but are of those saved by faith!
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

PSALM 51
Psalm is often used to support loss of salvation. David mourns "take not thy holy spirit from me" and "restore unto me the joy of thy salvation". First notice he asks to restore the JOY. Secondly his referring to the holy spirit being taken away is speaking of the annointing like Saul had. God's spirit departed from Saul. Yet David still referred to him as the anointed of God! David saw that Saul's acts of sin kept him from growing and receiving blessings, ultimately losing kingship. David did not want that for himself. So he recognized it, and unlike Saul, confessed. Yet when the witch of endor summoned Samuel, Samuel said that Saul and his sons would be with him when he died. Some say it wasn't Samuel. But the text says he perceived that it was Samuel. And different translations say "knew". Saul has a notable conversion, as he was given a new heart, made a knew man, and recognized among prophets.


ASSIGNED WITH UNBELIEVERS

In luke we see that Jesus would assign those who acted as if their lord would not return, he would assign them with the unbelievers. Yet the cross reference in Matthew may shed a little more light. In Matthew we see "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." This implies that the servant was a preternder, not genuine, never with us to begin with.

 

[YosefHayim]

Now here are a few verses that I believe support the perserverance of the saints. Jesus taught salvation by faith alone:

I can just stay with the most important verse known: John 3:16 which says believe, and you will never perish. There is a difference between thinking you might be saved and having faith that you are. For assurance comes from faith as well.

- John 10:26-29
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

- John 6:39 says
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

- 1 Peter 1:3-5 tells us what we have inherited through faith:
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

- For there is only one work to be saved as mentioned in John:
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 6:29

- And it isn't even our work!
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13

- And it is God that ordained that through us!
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10

- For our good works are the workings of Christ in us, not we ourselves.
Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God. Philippians 1:11

- If it is our own work, then it is vanity!
Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord. 1 Corinthians 15:58

- Let God do the Labour!
A Song of degrees for Solomon. Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain. Psalm 127:1

- For the old man perishes by God's working
For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 2 Corinthians 4:16


"Gospel" means good news. If Christians could lose there salvation than that would be bad news. The Good News is that God raised only begotten Jesus Christ from the Grave, and through faith in his song we recieve salvation. Those who "lose salvation" were never of us according to scripture.

Think you don't have faith? Do what the disciples did. "Lord, Increase our faith".

I remember around the time I was scared with this idea, I had submitted a prayer request for assurance. I was walking through the city with my formerly non-christian friend, who is now a brother in Christ. He was pretty fresh at the time. And this guy who was selling a documentary. he wanted to sell to us, but we didn't take the offer. But when he walked away, he gave me a stern look in the eyes. He said "I really see the spirit of God in you". I remember this and more importantly remember God's word when I am being encumbered with doubt. For faith comes by hearing the word of God.

 

[YosefHayim]

There are a few scriptures I'd like to touch on which are used as proof texts for loss of salvation.

Hebrews 10:26 - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

'Sanctified' is one of those words that you need to let the context dictate it's usage. The word literally means 'set apart' and it can apply (and often does) to true believers... but can also apply to objects, places and even people that aren't saved! Look at the following examples of what is said to be sanctified in the Bible:

Nation of Israel (Exodus 19:10)
Mount Sinai (Exodus 19:23)
Breast of the Ram (Exodus 29:27)
The Priests (Exodus 29:41)
The Tabernacle (Exodus 29:36)

In the New Testament we have the interesting verse in 1 Cor 7:14
"For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy."
I can only take from this that where a believer is married to an unbeliever God sees the unbelieving partner (and any children) as 'set apart' or 'sanctified' because of the faith of their partner. Does this mean that the unbeliever is saved? No. But they are said to be sanctified or set apart. I think it would be fair to say that Judas was also 'set apart' as one of the 12 disciples to do the Lord's work, but not saved.
So Heb 10:29 is speaking of those that joined themselves to true believers in the church and in this sense were 'sanctified' or set apart. But they willfully left that going back on their initial belief and decision and went back to Judaism. They are apostates.
Concerning Heb 10:29, the well loved Bible teacher H.A Ironside says the following:
“There is an expression used in these verses that may still perplex and bewilder those who have not apprehended that profession is one thing, and possession another. … He who is sanctified by the one offering of Christ upon the cross, that is, by His precious blood, is perfected forever (Heb. 10:10, 14-19). But in this passage it is equally plain that one who counts the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, shall be forever lost. In order not to miss the true force of this for our souls, it is necessary that we give some attention to what we have already designated ‘positional sanctification.’ Of old all the people of Israel, and all who were associated with them, were set apart to God both on the night of the Passover and afterwards in the wilderness. But this did not necessarily imply a work of the Spirit in their souls. Many were doubtless in the blood-sprinkled houses that solemn night, when the destroying angel passed through to smite the unsheltered first-born, who had no real faith in God. Yet they were by the blood of the Lamb put in a place of blessing, a position where they shared in many hallowed privileges. So afterward with those who were under the cloud and passed through the sea, being baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea. All were in the same position. All shared the same outward blessings. But the wilderness was the place of testing, and soon proved who were real and who were not. At the present time God has no special nation, to be allied to which is to come into a position of outward nearness to Him. But He has a people who have been redeemed to Himself out of all kindreds and tongues and peoples and nations, by the precious blood of the Lamb of God. All who ally themselves by profession with that company are outwardly among the blood-sheltered: in this sense they are sanctified by the blood of the covenant. That blood stands for Christianity, which in its very essence is the proclamation of salvation through Christ’s atoning death. To take the Christian place therefore is like entering the blood-sprinkled house. All who are real, who have judged themselves before God, and truely confided in his grace, will remain in that house. If they go out, it proves their unreality and such can find no other sacrifice for sins; for all the typical offerings are done away in Christ. These are they of whom the apostle John speaks so solemnly: ‘They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us’ (1 John 2:19). As they were ever bereft of faith in the soul, they ‘went out,’ and thus did despite to the Spirit of grace, and counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith they were sanctified, an unholy thing. These sin wilfully, not in the sense of failing to walk uprightly merely, but as utterly abjuring, or apostatizing from, Christianity, after having become conversant with the glorious message it brings to lost men”
(H.A. Ironside, Holiness: The False and the True, pp. 63-65).
Hope this helps. SOURCE: http://www.jesusplusnothing.com/questions/sanctified.htm
​

Also notice in verse 29 it says "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" I don't believe that this is talking about someone that is saved due to the verse which says "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." 1 Corinthians 12:3

Hebrews 10 ends saying that we are not of those unbelievers, but are of those saved by faith!
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

PSALM 51
Psalm is often used to support loss of salvation. David mourns "take not thy holy spirit from me" and "restore unto me the joy of thy salvation". First notice he asks to restore the JOY. Secondly his referring to the holy spirit being taken away is speaking of the annointing like Saul had. God's spirit departed from Saul. Yet David still referred to him as the anointed of God! David saw that Saul's acts of sin kept him from growing and receiving blessings, ultimately losing kingship. David did not want that for himself. So he recognized it, and unlike Saul, confessed. Yet when the witch of endor summoned Samuel, Samuel said that Saul and his sons would be with him when he died. Some say it wasn't Samuel. But the text says he perceived that it was Samuel. And different translations say "knew". Saul has a notable conversion, as he was given a new heart, made a knew man, and recognized among prophets.


ASSIGNED WITH UNBELIEVERS

In luke we see that Jesus would assign those who acted as if their lord would not return, he would assign them with the unbelievers. Yet the cross reference in Matthew may shed a little more light. In Matthew we see "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." This implies that the servant was a preternder, not genuine, never with us to begin with.

 

[Deborah13]

Dear Sister Deborah13, to understand the verse you ask about it must be taken in context with Heb 10:26 through the remainder of the chapter.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. These had received; not believed, or at least it does not say they had.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses. Is this suggesting that these too were despising the Son of God? The next verse answers that.
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? These were selected to hear the word, see the miracles, and take part ot the Holy Spirit’ leading and yet they turned back. I know you are looking for the thought that they were saved first, and then turned back to damnation as it were. NO!
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. There is the argument throughout scripture of

My pastor Jesse O’Dorsio made these comments referring to Hebrews Chapter 10 with these statements from Acts 7:51-60. "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye." There's no love. We understand that the Holy Ghost has to visit us, He's the one that convicts us to accept Christ as our Savior. This is what he's talking about. Now you jump down to the fifty-forth verse, it says "when they heard these things, they were cut to the heart and they gnashed on him with their teeth." See, they knew, they knew, they received, there was an enlightenment, but what happened? They gnashed on him with their teeth. That's what it says here when it says that they daily; what did we read here in Heb 10:29, it said "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God." This is them., this is them and how much sorer punishment? How much sorer punishment? Acts 7:55 "But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God," What did these men do? 57 "Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord." They were cut to the heart, they were enlightened, they received, but they never believed.

I do not know that this will help you, but I too believe this. Blessings in Christ Jesus.

Ok, I understand what you are saying but there is one thing that I still don't understand. They had been sanctified by the blood of Christ. How could they have been sanctified if they never believed?
Oh, wait a minute. I was just reminded of something. The unbelieving spouse is sanctified through the believing spouse. Not justified but sanctified. hmm..
I know your pastor is right about what they did, actually despising the truth. Because the word translated willfully is not sin that is done in ignorance, weakness, or even temptation. It is sin that is directed at Christ personally, despising Him, like satan and the demons do, with full knowledge of who He is.
Thank you Eugene, I will think on this some more.

EDIT: 4 mins later.....Just read the post just before mine. lol, maybe that is confirmation about what I was thinking about sanctification.

 

[YosefHayim]

Ok, I understand what you are saying but there is one thing that I still don't understand. They had been sanctified by the blood of Christ. How could they have been sanctified if they never believed?
Oh, wait a minute. I was just reminded of something. The unbelieving spouse is sanctified through the believing spouse. Not justified but sanctified. hmm..
I know your pastor is right about what they did, actually despising the truth. Because the word translated willfully is not sin that is done in ignorance, weakness, or even temptation. It is sin that is directed at Christ personally, despising Him, like satan and the demons do, with full knowledge of who He is.
Thank you Eugene, I will think on this some more.

Click this

 

[Deborah13]

Click this

Thanks, Yosef. I hadn't read that post until a couple mins. ago. I'll take that as confirmation for what I was considering.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Okay, it's 3 in the morning and I need to go to sleep and will need to find the scripture later today but just believing is not salvation if there are no works. (James) You see, Satan and the demons have, in scripture demonstrated that they believe Jesus is the Son of God and they, certainly are not saved.

Going to sleep.

 

[jeff77]

A Christian is a follower of Christ, right? Before we follow we accept the free gift of salvation. Acts 16:31 says believe in Christ and you will be saved. I understand that to mean that we first believe in the existence of the one and only God (Jesus) through the Holy Spirit and we are saved. We make a commitment to follow Christ at the moment we repent and accept Christ as Savior, but only then does the following take place. Many people will follow for a little while and change their mind or give up. The parable of the sower comes to mind. I also think of the Hymn we sing in church "I have decided to follow Jesus", but the next verse is "No turning back".

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"...we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end" (Hebrews 6:14 NASB)

This one that Jethro posted is one reason why I am non-OSAS.

I goofed, it's actually Hebrews 3:14, not 6:14. :blush

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"...the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified..." (Hebrews 10:29 NASB)

Unbelieving Jews and unbelieving spouses and children are not sanctified by the blood of the covenant (Jesus' blood). If they were, they'd be saved. The nation of Israel was 'set apart' (sanctified) to ultimately receive sanctification by faith and the Spirit of God. Didn't happen, but the fact remains they were in fact 'set apart' for that purpose. They did not live up to their calling. The passage is specifically speaking about being sanctified by the blood of Jesus in salvation, not the general 'setting apart', or calling to be saved.

Also, sanctification in Temple worship meant taking common base things and declaring them fit for use by the people of God. Read the passage: In 1 Corinthians 7:14 NASB, Paul is explaining to believing spouses that they are not made unclean by contact with their unbelieving spouses and the children born of them (or, in other passages of the Bible, by gentiles). The believers families become sanctified--declared clean--and can not defile the believer making them unfit for worship of God. This sanctification--this cleaning, not salvation--allows the believer to have intimate contact with people they are normally forbidden to have that kind of contact with (2 Corinthians 6:14-18 NASB). This is not a sanctification of their families by the blood of Christ. If they were that, they'd be saved. This is the sanctification of being declared fit for use and unable to make one unclean.

 

[th1b.taylor]

A Christian is a follower of Christ, right? Before we follow we accept the free gift of salvation. Acts 16:31 says believe in Christ and you will be saved. I understand that to mean that we first believe in the existence of the one and only God (Jesus) through the Holy Spirit and we are saved. We make a commitment to follow Christ at the moment we repent and accept Christ as Savior, but only then does the following take place. Many people will follow for a little while and change their mind or give up. The parable of the sower comes to mind. I also think of the Hymn we sing in church "I have decided to follow Jesus", but the next verse is "No turning back".

I agree Jeff, that was one of my favorite Harmonica numbers and about that verse, Christians do not turn back. There is, likely, only three persons that know the convert from the pretender or wannabee and all three of those are God. The one thing that worries me is the membership that has so few that know and strive to please the Holy Spirit. When folks ask me, "How do you know if you're indwelt with the Spirit," it just drives me nuts.

The very instant I was over come by the Holy Spirit I was awestruck, speechless, happier than I had ever been before and so much more. I'm not at all sure anyone can experience being over come without knowing it. And being a sinner, saved, I get a good deal of, just plain ole Texas style, whoopin's.

Just as when I was young it pained me sore if I did anything that was disrespectful of my dad, my stepfather, so it is with me and God. I am such a mess and I may never fully understand why God would love me but I certainly do know why I loved Him that loved me first.

 

[th1b.taylor]

"...the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified..." (Hebrews 10: NASB)

Unbelieving Jews and unbelieving spouses and children are not sanctified by the blood of the covenant (Jesus' blood). If they were, they'd be saved. The nation of Israel was 'set apart' (sanctified) to ultimately receive sanctification by faith and the Spirit of God. Didn't happen, but the fact remains they were in fact 'set apart' for that purpose. They did not live up to their calling. The passage is specifically speaking about being sanctified by the blood of Jesus in salvation, not the general 'setting apart', or calling to be saved.

Also, sanctification in Temple worship meant taking common base things and declaring them fit for use by the people of God. Read the passage: In 1 Corinthians 7:14 NASB, Paul is explaining to believing spouses that they are not made unclean by contact with their unbelieving spouses and the children born of them (or, in other passages of the Bible, by gentiles). The believers families become sanctified--declared clean--and can not defile the believer making them unfit for worship of God. This sanctification--this cleaning, not salvation--allows the believer to have intimate contact with people they are normally forbidden to have that kind of contact with (2 Corinthians 6:14-18 NASB). This is not a sanctification of their families by the blood of Christ. If they were that, they'd be saved. This is the sanctification of being declared fit for use and unable to make one unclean.

I need to remember how you explain that, I tend to fumble here and you covered it so clearly. Good post!