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Luke the physician and Divine Healing

Jesus was talking to who? A man who was asking about eternal life Jesus told him how to treat his neighbour. One of the way to treat his neighbour would be to doctor his wounds.

Spin it how ever you wish.
Being raised in churches I have seen the harm the teaching you present has done to folks. To my own family. Your spin and words are nothing new. My first introduction to this type of twisting of the Word of God was around 1956.

I do pray you never have to learn the lesson the hard way.

IT goes the joke about the guy on the roof top...
 
sorcery - G3096 - a magician Acts 8:9 - speaking of Simon the sorcerer
sorcerers - G5332 - pharmakeus - one who prepares or uses magical remedies, sorcerer
G5333 - G5331 - as the pretain to each other in parts of speech
1) the use or the administering of drugs

2) poisoning

3) sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it

4) metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

I think we could safely say that the correct interpretation of Rev. 18:23-24 would refer to the #4 definition of G5332 and G5331
 
Jesus was talking to who? A man who was asking about eternal life Jesus told him how to treat his neighbour. One of the way to treat his neighbour would be to doctor his wounds.

Spin it how ever you wish.
Being raised in churches I have seen the harm the teaching you present has done to folks. To my own family. Your spin and words are nothing new. My first introduction to this type of twisting of the Word of God was around 1956.

I do pray you never have to learn the lesson the hard way.

IT goes the joke about the guy on the roof top...
Jesus never told anyone anything that contradicted what He Himself taught, demonstrated, and told His disciple to do which is ALWAYS divine healing in both OT and NT. Please give scripture that I have "spun" anything.
 
No, there is no misunderstanding. The means of the healing is the differentiation. Jesus NEVER used anything but divine healing in the NT or the OT nor any other believer. The carnal physicians used and use drugs and cutting. The Bible gives only one directive to believers that are sick which is in James 5:14-15. The word there is sozo to save, heal from sickness. Which is included in the verb save-sozo meaning what the noun salvation provides.

I was simply giving the definition of the word physician. As in Luke being the 'beloved physician'
No where did I say that Jesus healed in any other way but by His authority over sickness and sin to heal and to forgive.

My response was to farouk that when Jesus used the term and where the Bible speaks of Luke as the 'beloved physician' it could not be interpreted as the beloved witch doctor. When Jesus used this word he was not referring to a sorcerer.
 
Jesus never told anyone anything that contradicted what He Himself taught, demonstrated, and told His disciple to do which is ALWAYS divine healing in both OT and NT. Please give scripture that I have "spun" anything.
I agree. He does not 'spin' His Word. Remember we don't have everything Jesus ever said or did in written form.
 
Jesus never told anyone anything that contradicted what He Himself taught, demonstrated, and told His disciple to do which is ALWAYS divine healing in both OT and NT. Please give scripture that I have "spun" anything.

Please go back and read your own OP. It sounds very much like you are saying that physicians are sorcerers as are pharmacists. I clearly remember you saying in another thread that when a doctor/medical professional gets saved he/she should leave his/her profession and that you left a profession although I don't remember that you said what that profession was.
Not all people in the medical fields or their patients can operate in faith the way you profess to therefore they, physicians and pharmacists are still needed in our fallen world.

Even at Kathrine Kuhlman's meeting where there would be thousands attending only a handful actually received healings. Yes, the Lord used John G. Lake very successfully to heal many. But not all receive their healing instantly, that's just a fact. Would you have a woman with a brain tumor screaming in pain and not give her painkillers? Is this what we should advise?

Please be more clear as to what you are trying to teach us.
 
You're of course entitled to your opinion, but IMO if medical practice was a bad thing the Bible would have said something more direct and more explicit about it, rather then requiring some obscure meaning to be gathered from scattered verses. Surely this subject would have come up in some of Paul's letters to the churches.
Jesus' miracles I was always taught were done mainly to prove that He is who He said He was--especially since the Jews were a people who required signs to believe.

I'm not saying that God can't heal people directly, as I've heard numerous accounts of it happening in this day and age. My church has this thing where if someone requests we'll lay hands on them, anoint them with oil, and pray over them. But they also believe that hospitals have their place.
And the medical practice certainly isn't anywhere near perfect, but they are learning more all the time. (There are instances where I might think it better to seek alternative medicine.)

I was always taught that science was a beautiful thing created by God, medical science included. God made all of the materials on earth, so I don't see what's wrong with doing research to see if they can't be used to help when needed.
 
Lesjude from my understanding your post are spin, you can go back and reread your own postings..
You are free to believe anything you wish. It seems Deborah13 has a good point. It MUST have been referring to the Spiritual gift of divine healing because the Holy Spirit would not refer to sorcerers as "beloved". Scripture does not contradict what Jesus said, did, and told His disciples to do.
 
...and a little medicinal wine for Timothy's stomach's sake, and for his often infirmities.

Never fear, farouk, by using this philosophy of language and definitions it would be OK to go to a therapist because ...

heal = G2323 = therapeuo
1) to serve, do service
2) to heal, to cure, restore to health
 
You're of course entitled to your opinion, but IMO if medical practice was a bad thing the Bible would have said something more direct and more explicit about it, rather then requiring some obscure meaning to be gathered from scattered verses. Surely this subject would have come up in some of Paul's letters to the churches.

2 Chronicles 16:12-13

New King James Version (NKJV)
<sup class="versenum">12 </sup>And in the thirty-ninth year of his reign, Asa became diseased in his feet, and his malady was severe; yet in his disease he did not seek the Lord, but the physicians.
<sup class="versenum">13 </sup>So Asa rested with his fathers; he died in the forty-first year of his reign.

Jeremiah 17:5-6New King James Version (NKJV)

<sup class="versenum">5 </sup>Thus says the Lord:
“Cursed is the man who trusts in man
And makes flesh his strength,
Whose heart departs from the Lord.
<sup class="versenum">6 </sup>For he shall be like a shrub in the desert,
And shall not see when good comes,
But shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness,
In a salt land which is not inhabited.


Mark 5:25-26New King James Version (NKJV)

<sup class="versenum">25 </sup>Now a certain woman had a flow of blood for twelve years, <sup class="versenum">26 </sup>and had suffered many things from many physicians. She had spent all that she had and was no better, but rather grew worse.

The medical system primarily uses drugs to treat people. Here is what the Bible says about drugs and those that are involved in using them:

http://www.naturalnews.com/031584_Bible_drug_use.html
"Strong's exhaustive concordance of the Bible, which lists every word in the Bible, lists the word "sorcery" as word #5332 and tells us that it is translated from the original Greek word "pharmakon." It gives the definition as: a drug i.e. a spell-giving potion, a druggist or pharmacist, a poisoner."

"A pharmacist today has the same Greek title that he had at the time the New Testament was written 2000 years ago, and he is still doing the same thing: dealing in poisonous drugs!"

"The Bible says that "sorcery", or the use of poisonous drugs, has deceived all nations. "For by thy sorceries (pharmacea) were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth". (Rev. 18:23,24)"

"All nations practice sorcery through the use of drugs, but they are deceived into thinking that it's right. God condemns the merchandising and use of poisonous drugs along with murder and idolatry. Read it in your own Bible. Study it for yourself. If you don't own a concordance, borrow one from your library and see it with your own eyes."

"Look in Webster's 2nd Collegiate Dictionary published in 1980 under the word "pharmaceutical." The definition reads: "pharmaceutical" the practice of witchcraft or the use of poison."

ALL drugs harm the human body in ANY amount and cause drug induced disease which the system treats with guess what!


Here is the ONLY direction given in the Bible for believers who are sick: James 5:14-15.
Jesus' miracles I was always taught were done mainly to prove that He is who He said He was--especially since the Jews were a people who required signs to believe.
True, but that was only one purpose. He demonstrated the will of God to heal and deliver by doing it to ALL who came to Him including sinners, those who had no idea who He was, a few dead ones, and one actively seeking healing from pagan/demonic means when Jesus healed him. Jesus has not changed Hebrews 13:8 and still heals all that come to Him in faith. He clearly says "those who believe" and have "freely received' can and will do the same and even greater works John 14:12.
I'm not saying that God can't heal people directly, as I've heard numerous accounts of it happening in this day and age. My church has this thing where if someone requests we'll lay hands on them, anoint them with oil, and pray over them. But they also believe that hospitals have their place.
No, you do not believe Jesus is the same now as He ALWAYS was. No elder can pray the prayer of faith believing Jesus gives His bride the alternative of medical science. It is a simple case of being double minded. If they cannot pray as James 5:14-15 states seeing people healed they are NOT qualified to be an elder in Jesus' church.
And the medical practice certainly isn't anywhere near perfect, but they are learning more all the time. (There are instances where I might think it better to seek alternative medicine.)
If it is not perfect then it is NOT given to the bride of Jesus as a gift for healing James 1:16-17. It is the #3 cause of death in the US and all those deaths were PREVENTABLE!

I was always taught that science was a beautiful thing created by God, medical science included. God made all of the materials on earth, so I don't see what's wrong with doing research to see if they can't be used to help when needed.
If you are familiar with the scientific method the "practice" of medicine is no where near true science. Even the drug testing and the use of 'tested' drugs is a travesty of true science. I will say again what any competent medical professional knows, ALL drugs are POISON and harm the body in ANY amount including aspirin. If you believe God gives his bride this in place of the name, word, and shed blood of Jesus you are in error.
 
After reading all the posts, I have some comments:

1. It was mentioned that Rahab quit being a harlot. I don't know of any scripture that says that directly. Can someone please give me that.... I don't mind anyone saying circumstances probably said she did. After all, the city was destroyed and she didn't have much of a customer base, except Israel... And they would never do that, would they? That's a small matter though....

2. In the KJV we have Luke 4:23, where Jesus mentions a proverb that says "Physician, heal thyself". Funny thing is I don't remember it from the Book of Proverbs. Anyone know where it came from? Did I miss it in the Book of Proverbs? In any sense, with all this talk I don't recall this verse being mentioned. Was it? Maybe I missed it. In any sense, it seems to me that Jesus was likening himself to a physician... A doctor.

3. There was the woman with the issue of blood. In Luke 8:43. I'm not saying it was a "positive" thing that the woman couldn't be cured. But I don't see it as a negative thing either. She needed devine healing, because the medical practice was not advanced enough in those days to cure her. Even today, it may not be enough. That doesn't make them "bad" doctors, it just means they couldn't do the job that Jesus was ordained to do to make a point about faith.

Actually, I do see a negative about doctors in this incident. We get further insight from Mark that this woman spent all her money trying to get cured. They obviously kept trying to help her until the money ran out! It was probably at that point they finally figured out they couldn't help her!

4. I see it as a mistake to liken physicians with pharmacists and drugs. Yes, they do work together in this day, and probably back then. I was recently in an accident (I'm fine, thanks) and aside from Ibprofrin, it was all a bunch of xrays, consultations and rehab. I wasn't even "cut".

5. Speaking of Drugs and pharmacists.... I fully understand the reference to sorcery and saw it before this thread started. But not all "drugs" are poison. Is aspirin a drug? Sure it is. Is white willow bark? Hmmm? No, it's bark, yet that is where aspirin came from. Of course, now it is sinthetic, I suppose. Chamomile and valarian tea have a calming and soothing affect and can help you sleep. They are herbs that are gifts from God. Valium (sp?) certainly works better, but the effect is the same. Just much more harsh. So where do we draw the line between "drugs" and healing foods? It's even been mentioned that wine and olive oil had some (even if small) healing properties.

6. If a doctor heals me with surgery and/or drugs.... I will give thanks to the Lord. Nope, it wasn't done in Bible days or in the Bible. That's true. They did place a snake on top of a stick, but I'm not going to go that route! Especially since God revoked it. But I've been in life threatening situations and surgeries before. I am happy the Doc was there but I give thanks to the Lord for the healing.

In short, I see where lesjude is coming from. Give thanks to the Lord for any healing and trust in HIM, not the Docs. Furthermore, go to God first, not the Doctor. I agree with that. But God can annoint Doctors to heal you.
 
You are free to believe anything you wish. It seems Deborah13 has a good point. It MUST have been referring to the Spiritual gift of divine healing because the Holy Spirit would not refer to sorcerers as "beloved". Scripture does not contradict what Jesus said, did, and told His disciples to do.

By the way do you or anyone you know, believe that an anti-biotic is MAGICAL. If they do we can clearly see why they would run from such a thing seeing that would be a form of idolatry. Are you accusing people who go to doctors as being idolators?
 
As for Luke being a "physician"... Hey, if he was a "doctor" and practice medical arts and even medicine, it was consistent with whom Jesus called. We must remember that Luke wasn't an Apostle. At best, he seemed to be a scribe for some of them, as well as perhaps an aide. But look at the characters God called... Tax collectors, Lawyers, accountants (and that one was a devil!), and even a pharisee!
 
After reading all the posts, I have some comments:


In short, I see where lesjude is coming from. Give thanks to the Lord for any healing and trust in HIM, not the Docs. Furthermore, go to God first, not the Doctor. I agree with that. But God can annoint Doctors to heal you.

Well, stated Slider
 
Please go back and read your own OP. It sounds very much like you are saying that physicians are sorcerers as are pharmacists
I pointed out what the Bible says about those who use drugs.You are free to reach your own conclusions.

I clearly remember you saying in another thread that when a doctor/medical professional gets saved he/she should leave his/her profession and that you left a profession although I don't remember that you said what that profession was
. No, I said God would show believers who were involved in the field to leave it one way or another. No one can tell any one to leave or stay in any job. There are no rules.
I did not say but it was not medical science. If I had stayed I was going no further with the Lord and would have lost the truth I had. It really was a no brainer to leave. I also learned to trust God alone for provision because my income went WAY down with frequent periods of unemployment with no benefits.

Not all people in the medical fields or their patients can operate in faith the way you profess to therefore they, physicians and pharmacists are still needed in our fallen world.
No, they cannot because they do not know who Jesus is as healer and believe He gave believers their system. He did not.

Even at Kathrine Kuhlman's meeting where there would be thousands attending only a handful actually received healings. Yes, the Lord used John G. Lake very successfully to heal many. But not all receive their healing instantly, that's just a fact. Would you have a woman with a brain tumor screaming in pain and not give her painkillers? Is this what we should advise?
Katherine Kuhlman had serious spiritual issues and died during an operation. Healing is NOT instant and takes time. If people do not believe they received anything Mark 11:24 because it was not instant the devil often robs them of their healing. This is what God's purpose is with miracles Hebrews 11:1 with Hebrews 11:6. It is BELIEVING when there is no evidence that anything has changed or even gets WORSE!
I do NOT give medical advice nor can any Christian. I simply do what the Bible says to do. People are free to do anything they feel is necessary and they will.
Please be more clear as to what you are trying to teach us.
Please read the link: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=49107&highlight=
 

So you believe that the Lord may withhold healing you because of sin you have commited which is just what Mitspa asked you and you said NO.

You say healing is conditional on performance.

Therefore, seeing sickness and sin are both the result of the fall and Jesus paid the price for both at the cross than....

It follows that you believe that the Lord may withold salvation from a believer because of some sin.

Therefore, you believe that a believers salvation is conditional on their preformance (or works of the law) just as you do for healing.

If I have NOT understood please be clear in your explanation.

Oh and what's about God witholding repentence?
 
So you believe that the Lord may withhold healing you because of sin you have commited which is just what Mitspa asked you and you said NO.
If one sins willfully as they did in Corinth sickness can be the result. Repentance brings healing IF God grants it. He is under no obligation to for the willful sin of a believer. Grace does not remove the obligation of obedience. Here is a clear scripture:
1 John 5:16-17


New King James Version (NKJV)

<sup class="versenum">16 </sup>If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. <sup class="versenum">17 </sup>All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

You say healing is conditional on performance.

Therefore, seeing sickness and sin are both the result of the fall and Jesus paid the price for both at the cross than....

It follows that you believe that the Lord may withold salvation from a believer because of some sin.
Therefore, you believe that a believers salvation is conditional on their preformance (or works of the law) just as you do for healing.

If I have NOT understood please be clear in your explanation.
There is no salvation without REPENTANCE which is a new heart to live for Jesus with changed behavior that forsakes known sin and any other as the word reveals it as sin not to earn salvation but because they are saved. There is no salvation/repentance granted ANYONE who is not predestined and the elect. They are they ONLY ones who receive effectual grace. John 6:65-66, Romans 8:29-30, Romans 9:11-13, Ephesians 1:4-11, 2 Timothy 1:9.
Galatians 5:19-21

New King James Version (NKJV)

<sup class="versenum">19 </sup>Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,<sup class="footnote" value="[<a href=" http:="" www.christianforums.net="" target=" target=" _blank"="">a]</sup> fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, <sup class="versenum">20 </sup>idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, <sup class="versenum">21 </sup>envy, murders,<sup class="footnote" value="[<a href=" http:="" www.christianforums.net="" target=" target=" _blank"="">b]</sup> drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past,that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Oh and what's about God witholding repentence?
Repentance is a gift.
Acts 5:1-11 for lying; It is quite possible here 1 Corinthians 5:4-5; Hebrews 12:11-17; Matthew 12:31-32, Hebrews 6:4-6.
If there is sin unrepented of God does not even hear a believer's prayer except for a prayer of repentance: Mark 11:25-26, Psalm 66:18.
A BELIEVER in willful sin can have NO assurance/faith God hears his prayer so it would not be possible to pray in faith for ANYTHING except forgiveness.
 
By the way do you or anyone you know, believe that an anti-biotic is MAGICAL. If they do we can clearly see why they would run from such a thing seeing that would be a form of idolatry. Are you accusing people who go to doctors as being idolators?
One of the leading PhD researchers and a professor at a national research university on mind altering drugs gives that definition. I have his/her transcribed course notes from a former student.http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=41807&highlight=
I am accusing no one of anything. I am simply pointing out what the Bible says on the issue. All are free to reach their own conclusions.
 
4
. I see it as a mistake to liken physicians with pharmacists and drugs. Yes, they do work together in this day, and probably back then. I was recently in an accident (I'm fine, thanks) and aside from Ibprofrin, it was all a bunch of xrays, consultations and rehab. I wasn't even "cut".

http://www.medicinenet.com/ibuprofen/article.htm

SIDE EFFECTS:
The most common side effects from ibuprofen are rash, ringing in the ears, headaches, dizziness, drowsiness, abdominal pain, nausea, diarrhea, constipation and heartburn. NSAIDs reduce the ability of blood to clot and therefore increase bleeding after an injury. Ibuprofen may cause ulceration of the stomach or intestine, and the ulcers may bleed. Sometimes, ulceration can occur without abdominal pain, and black, tarry stools, weakness, and dizziness upon standing (orthostatic hypotension) due to bleeding may be the only signs of an ulcer. NSAIDs reduce the flow of blood to the kidneys and impair function of the kidneys. The impairment is most likely to occur in patients who already have impaired function of the kidney or congestive heart failure, and use of NSAIDs in these patients should be cautious. People who are allergic to other NSAIDs, including aspirin, should not use ibuprofen. Individuals with asthma are more likely to experience allergic reactions to ibuprofen and other NSAIDs. Fluid retention (edema), blood clots, heart attacks, hypertension and heart failure have also been associated with the use of NSAIDs.

Aspirin Side Effects Can Be Serious-
There are many many aspirin side effects. Some of them are less harmful, but some of them are deadly. In fact, in the 1970's, aspirin side effects made it one of ...
www.side-effects-site.co...spirin-side-effects.html

No. going to doctor for ANYTHING is NOT my position.
Not unless they can pray the prayer of faith!
 
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