Lukewarm believers and faith

[gordontimmy]

Lukewarm=no honesty, no clarity, only worthy of vomit.



Here is why the testimony is to be, hot or cold...


Revelation 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.




Because it is testified for the end time now, when all are really workers of iniquity, ( no faith) their love has gone COLD/lovers of THEIR OWN SELVES....



Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,



Here is why there is vomiting...


Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.




There is vomiting because the ones who escaped from vomit turn again to their own vomit. ( and FILTH.)..




2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[gordontimmy]

The scripture fully explained that the works of the law ( Israel sought the righteousness which is of the law) are not of faith, but the righteousness which is of faith is how we are not ashamed before Christ.

Revelation 3 COUNSELS us that the SHAME OF OUR NAKEDNESS DOES NOT APPEAR. ( with white raiment that we MAY BE CLOTHED.)..



Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.



The righteousness which is of faith is that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES ON HIM ( CHRIST) SHALL NOT BE ASHAMED.

The righteousness which is of God by faith, ( not our own righteousness as Israel sought not by faith) is to know Christ, ( the ones who know Him do good, not evil) knowing the POWER of HIS RESURRECTION, the FELLOWSHIP of HIS SUFFERINGS, being made to conform unto HIS DEATH, if by any means we may ATTAIN to the RESSURECTION OF THE DEAD...



Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Romans 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Philippians 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.


The EIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH, speaks this way, THE WORD OF FAITH, that the APOSTLES OF THE LORD preach, to confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus, and to BELIEVE, in our heart that God has raised Him from the dead, we are saved by man BELIEVING with the heart unto RIGHTEOUSNESS, and then with the mouth confession is MADE UNTO SALVATION.

For the scripture said, QHOSOEVER BELIEVES ON HIM SHALL NOT BE ASHAMED...



Romans 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Looking at scripture ( the truth) we see the ways of the Pharisees ( hypocrites) is to do works only to be seen of men.

The argument at hand is half hearted believers and feigned faith of lukewarm works.

Self-righteous zealots for the law of works alone, is the another argument against unjustified sinners.

The law of works is not the law of faith.

And the law of Jesus' faith is not the law of lukewarm faith.

Jesus' faith is only given to them that repent of all their sinning. Sinners give themselves their own faith to only repent in part.

Jerem 3:8
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also... {3:10} And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

The righteousness of faith, has no righteousness in the works of the law.

Not sinful man's faith, which is unrighteous to do unrighteousness.

Jesus' faith fulfills the law by doing God's righteousness at all times from a pure heart of Christ.

Matth 23:26
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Matth 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The outward righteousness of man is exceeding by the righteousness of Christ, that is inward first and outward also.

The righteousness which is of faith was not found by Israel, who followed after the law ( of righteousness)

Not found by unbelieving Israel, who slew the righteous Lord.

Nor found by lukewarm Christians, who offer lame repentance by their own faith alone. And still crucify the Lord to themselves at will daily, and from time to time.

Heb 6:6
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

We be found in Christ by not having our own righteousness,

True. Only them found doing His righteousness are in Christ Jesus.

Doing lukewarm works of one's own faith alone, is not found in Jesus Christ's body on earth, nor shall be found in His presence in heaven, except we repent of all rebellion against Him on earth.

Luke 13:3
And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

We walk with Jesus by the faith of Jesus.

Half-hearted sinners walk with their own lukwarm works of less sinning, by their own faith alone.

Eph 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

These are the works of the rebuked churches.

Exactly. Jesus sees our works, and knows our faith by our works.

Lukewarm works of both good and evil, are the lukewarm faith of the double hearted.

Jerem
{3:10} And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Hosea
{7:8} Ephraim, he hath mixed himself among the people; Ephraim is a cake not turned.

They do works and imagine they are alive ( with God) but are dead.

And they do lukewarm works and imagine they are alive by their own faith alone, but are dead to God by lame dead works unjustified by God.

Rev 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

The ones who do sin ( do evil) are of the DEVIL, the Son of man was MANIFESTED to destroy the WORKS OF THE DEVIL. ( evil/unbelief)

The beloved are to follow that which is GOOD, not what is EVIL, he that does good is of God, but he that does evil has not seen God....

Exactly. There are the lukewarm that do both good and evil, seeking only to do less evil than before.

God therefore justifies none of their works as being worthy of His' dead Son's whole offering unto death on a cross.

Is 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

You do good in rebuking works of the law without faith from the heart.

If you want to address the argument at hand about lukewarm works with feigned faith, then I'd be glad to see it.

Sound Bible criticism of the argument given, is always welcome.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Interestingly Paul councils us to support those whose faith is weak.see Romans 14.
God also promised not to harm the faith of those whose faith was fragile, so what is the difference between weak faith and lukewarm faith?

Very good question. It shows respect for Scripture, even if not understanding it perfectly.

First we begin with what we know by Jesus's words to the churches. He says lukewarm works are doing both good and evil, rather than all good or all evil. And He spews all their works, and the lukewarm believers, out of His mouth.

Rev {3:15}
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. {3:16} So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

But since there are the weak in the faith of Jesus Christ, and that we are exhorted to confort and support, then we conclude being weak in the faith of God, is not being lukewarm in one's own half-hearted faith.

1 Cor 5;11
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

They lukewarm are spued out by the Lord Himself from without His body. But the weak in faith are within His body, and comforted by His members.

The weak in the faith of Jesus, are clarified by Scripture in two ways: Those suffering temptation and tribulation while holding the Head to not fall, and those with weak consciences holding the Head to not defile themselves in lawful things.

1 Peter 1:6
Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1 Cor 8:7
Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

Thse enduring temptation are made weak in full confiedence of faith, yet without sinning. The newborn babes not yet schooled in the law and righteiousness of Christ, are still weak of conscience by their old excesses.

Those strong in faith not being tempted at the time, ought exhort and pray for them made heavy of heart in temptation and tribulation. And those strong of conscience in the liberty of the law of Christ, ought not wound their consciences by unnecessary shows of liberty.

Rom 14:21
It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

Simply put: lukewarm works of feigned repenters, are entirely rejected by Jesus, and has no call of the saints to 'support' them in their hypocritical faith.

The weak in temptation and conscience are whole hearted repented saints within the body of Christ, who are to be exhorted, comforted, and prayed for in their times of tribulation and distress, and not be cast down by the strong.

Aftrall, it is by grace that any saint stands firm in Christ Jesus, and falling from our own steadfastness can readily come by pride:

Rom 11:20
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Heb 4:1
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

The race to win Christ is for all them running lawfully, and not only for them running swift and sure. The lukewarm running of doing good at times and evil at times, is the race for another christ entirely.

Thanks for the good question. When rightly dividing the Scriptures, we should always begin with what is plainly known and sure. Then we can clarify any 'seeming' contradictions, rather than running wild with the unclear things, that becomes teaching contradicting sure things of God stated elsewhere.

The normal manner of self-justifiers is to turn the unlcear things into lies against the clearly stated things.

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Another example is verses of Scripture that appear to be unclear about the Son being God with the Father. But John 1:1,14 is sufficient proof to avoid any such heresy, that the Son Jesus Christ was not God the Word come in the flesh.

 

[RBDERRICK]

You skip right over “I will spue thee out of my mouth. “

The argument is about what lukewarm works are.

Being spued out is the result.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

CHRIST saves the worst for last. Those who were first to fall for Satan's lies and deceptions are last to be born in this very age where Satan rules for a 5 month period. CHRIST has nothing at all good to say about this church.

We see people today in certain churches who do not take a stand on anything; sitting back doing nothing to stand up against injustice, perversions that are seducing our very fragile, youngest amongst us that look to adults to guide their fragile minds. These people that stand for nothing will fall for anything; CHRIST the KING of kings and LORD of lords spues you out of HIS mouth; I certainly wouldn’t want to be them.

When Christians; and these are Christians CHRIST is talking about; don’t stand up against abominations, perversions and just go along to get along, GOD considers you a partaker of their sin. There is no in between, sitting on the fence (luke warm) in Right and wrong. You either are against evil or you are on the side of it.

True.

However, the argument is that the lukewarm do both good and evil. They do stand up for some good and against some evil, but not all.

They draw their own line of repentance and standards. Their faith is their own, not the faith of Jesus given by God to them that keep His line drawn to repent of all sinning, and only do His righteous good.

You are addressing the cold, that preach no repentance and stand for nothing good and righteous.

There are a few naming Christ and are the cold. There are few repented saints and are the hot. The greater majority are the lukewarm repenters naming Christ.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Rev
{3:15} I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. {3:16} So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Notice in His address to the churches, Jesus only says He knows our works. He never says, I know your faith. That's because the righteous Lord judges our faith only by our works, as in James 2.

Lukewarm faith of lukewarm believers therefore, is known by works, that are neither cold nor hot, neither good nor evil.

Lukewarm works neither do only good, nor only evil, but do both evil and good.

Gen
{3:5} For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

The promise of the devil is made when a son sins and disobeys God: to be as a god knowing they are now doing both evil and good.

The Lord's command to the lukewarm doers of both good and evil, is the same to all men everywhere: Get hot and repent from all the sinning and trespassing, and only do His good will on earth.

Lukewarm faith is with lukewarm repentance, that only results in doing both evil and good, more or less.

The lukewarm religion is by the lukewarm faith of only seeking to sin less than before, not to sin no more and only do that which pleases the Father and the Son.

John
{8:29} And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

The pure religion of Jesus Christ is only hot to sin not and do His good pleasure. Being hot and alive in Christ Jesus, is keeping ourselves from sinning with the world, by doing His will only.

The faith of lukewarm repenters only seeks to do more good than evil, and sin less. The sinless faith of Jesus Christ is is only for them that repent of all sins and trespasses, so as to only do good for His name's sake.

Your interpretation can't be correct for then Christ is wishing they do evil: "I could wish you were cold"

This interpretation, given the context--- is likely correct:

The contrast is between the hot medicinal waters of Hierapolis and the cold, pure waters of Colossae. Thus the church in Laodicea “was providing neither refreshment for the spiritually weary, nor healing for the spiritually sick. It was totally ineffective, and thus distasteful to its Lord.” On this interpretation the church is not being called to task for its spiritual temperature but for the barrenness of its works. Among the several advantages of this interpretation is the fact that it is no longer necessary to wonder why Christ would prefer the church to be “cold” rather than “lukewarm.” It should be noted that although the Lord was about to spit them out of his mouth, there was yet opportunity to repent (vv. 18–20).-Mounce, R. H. (1997). The Book of Revelation (pp. 109–110). Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.

 

[follower]

The Lord's command to the lukewarm doers of both good and evil, is the same to all men everywhere: Get hot and repent from all the sinning and trespassing, and only do His good will on earth.

Lukewarm faith is with lukewarm repentance, that only results in doing both evil and good, more or less.

This is very urgent and important to remember concerning
all kinds of sin, including sexual sin.
To be doubleminded, to think that continuing in sin alternately repenting , results is not abiding in Jesus Christ, not receiving anything from God nor from Jesus, and results in harming anyone who is harmed by the wrong doing.

 

[follower]

Interestingly Paul councils us to support those whose faith is weak.see Romans 14.
God also promised not to harm the faith of those whose faith was fragile, so what is the difference between weak faith and lukewarm faith?

Simplest may be that weak faith may be still obedient, not harmful.

Lukewarm is disobedient, perhaps "for show", and bad enough that God does not tolerate lukewarm.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Your interpretation can't be correct for then Christ is wishing they do evil: "I could wish you were cold"

The argument is correct about what lukewarm works are, unless error is shown in it.

A false reinterpretation of the Lord's words, is what leads to questioning His purpose, and falsely accusing Jesus Christ wishing men to do evil.

In answer to the accusation, it is clearly seen from Scripture, that the Lord's purpose is to call all sinners to repentance.

Therefore, the lukewarm repenters are the self-righteous that the Lord cannot deliver from all their sinning.

Mark 2:17
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The lukewarm must either repent from all their sinning as commanded to all men, or they must cease naming Christ altogether, that they may repent to be saved from all their sins and trasngressions.

Jerem 3:10
And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

The contrast is between the hot medicinal waters of Hierapolis and the cold, pure waters of Colossae. Thus the church in Laodicea “was providing neither refreshment for the spiritually weary, nor healing for the spiritually sick. It was totally ineffective, and thus distasteful to its Lord.”

This is correct. The gospel of lukewarm repentance to only do less evil than before, does not satisfy any soul thirsting for the rightousness of the Lord, nor justify them with the Lord.

On this interpretation the church is not being called to task for its spiritual temperature but for the barrenness of its works.

And so we see the purpose for the false reinterpretation and accusation of the Lord's own purpose.

Separating one's spirituality from one's works. Separating the judgment of one's soul, from the judgment of our works.

Which is one of the many Bible reinterpretations, that are doctrinally necessary to believe and preach the gospel of salvation and justification by faith alone, with no need to repent from all sins and trespasses...

Which is the lukewarm gospel producing lukewarm works, that are spit out from His own word of mouth and deeds of body.

Among the several advantages of this interpretation

The one and only necessary advantage of this reinterpretation of Jesus' judgment against the lukewarm, is the same for all believers and preachers of their own faith alone: To doctrinally justify their own old sinning still unrepented of.

is the fact that it is no longer necessary to wonder why Christ would prefer the church to be “cold” rather than “lukewarm.”

Which is the fact that answers why anyone naming Christ, would ever even think to wonder such a thing.

The wonder is why anyone confessing His name, would ever invent such an accusation of the Lord, rather than simply acknowledge He cannot call to repentance the self-righteous, that do not believe they have any need to repent of all their own inning, to be saved and justified by Him.

The lying wonder is anwered by the gospel of being righteous by faith alone, not by works.

It should be noted that although the Lord was about to spit them out of his mouth, there was yet opportunity to repent

Exactly. Every sinner naming His name will surely be spit out, except we repent of all our sins and trespasses as commanded by the Lord.

Luke 13:3
And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Doing less sinning does not make any sinner less of a sinner than the world, in less need of repentance to be saved and justified by the righteous and true Lord and Judge of all the earth.

1 Peter
{1:14} As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: {1:15} But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; {1:16} Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. {1:17} And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:

 

[RBDERRICK]

To be doubleminded, to think that continuing in sin alternately repenting , results is not abiding in Jesus Christ, not receiving anything from God nor from Jesus, and results in harming anyone who is harmed by the wrong doing.

This is an important point also. Too many believers have a less righteous belief in Jesus Christ, than they do people on earth.

They hypocritically excuse their own sinning, as not being as sinful as others, and saying they are not enemies of God by works.

They are accusing the Lord of being less righteous, than any spouse or neighbor committed adultery, burgler, false witness...against.

They know they are guilty and made themselves enemies of others, and condemned by any honest judge on earth. But with the Lord they are unrighteously acquitted and uncondemned.

Job 10:14
If I sin, then thou markest me, and thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity.

Nahum 1:3
The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.

They not only believe their own faith and lies, but they also pervert the love and mercy of God.

God is merciful to lead to repentance, not to acquit the unrepented. The righteous and holy God does not justify the hardened guilty by loving them into heaven.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The argument is correct about what lukewarm works are, unless error is shown in it.

A false reinterpretation of the Lord's words, is what leads to questioning His purpose, and falsely accusing Jesus Christ wishing men to do evil.

In answer to the accusation, it is clearly seen from Scripture, that the Lord's purpose is to call all sinners to repentance.

I did NOT accuse, I disagreed Christ would prefer evil people over lukewarm people:

Jesus commands the tree to be made all good, not just less bad. He actually prefers we be all evil than lukewarm, because He can't help half-baked people, that are only willing to repent of some works of the flesh, but not all.-RBDERRIC #3

Therefore, the "false interpretation" of Christ's words is yours. NOW I do accuse it of error. Obvious error.

Christ is impeccably righteous, the "Holy One" and therefore would NEVER prefer people be "all evil":
"But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, (Acts 3:14 NKJ)

Your conclusion(s) are incorrect as the premises are incorrect.

As Christ would NEVER wish people were evil in any degree, "cold" and "hot" are not figurative for "good and evil", they characterize the liquid that produces particular benefits:

In context, "cold water" is refreshing, "hot water" cures illness.

As "lukewarm water" is neither cold or hot, it is useless and therefore, spat out rather than drunk.

Christ prefers people have good works, either those that refresh, or heal the soul.

The contrast is between the hot medicinal waters of Hierapolis and the cold, pure waters of Colossae. Thus the church in Laodicea “was providing neither refreshment for the spiritually weary, nor healing for the spiritually sick. It was totally ineffective, and thus distasteful to its Lord.” On this interpretation the church is not being called to task for its spiritual temperature but for the barrenness of its works. Among the several advantages of this interpretation is the fact that it is no longer necessary to wonder why Christ would prefer the church to be “cold” rather than “lukewarm.” It should be noted that although the Lord was about to spit them out of his mouth, there was yet opportunity to repent (vv. 18–20).-Mounce, R. H. (1997). The Book of Revelation (pp. 109–110). Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.

 

[James Fifteen]

I’m new here and hesitated to reply but I may as well rip the bandaid off right now. I came here to get other Christian perspectives and insights.

Grace certainly doesn’t excuse or permit sin, but it certainly does remove sins from the believer as far as the east is from the west.

None of these responses save one, Alfred, allows for grace. This is sad.

One of the responders even goes so far as to question salvation in others.

“And I completely despised the 'Christians' that preached against my sinning, while doing their own version of it. And then had the despicable gall to tell me they were forgiven, because they 'believed', but I was headed hell as an 'unbeliever'. I knew one thing, I sure didn't believe what they believed, and never want to.“

That’s a grievous sin. Doubting someone is “Christian” just because they disagree with you is pretty heavy, and a sin itself. Who are you to judge another man’s slave?

Only God has that authority. We, as believers, may judge the deeds of others, but never the salvation.

“Therefore, the lukewarm repenters are the self-righteous that the Lord cannot deliver from all their sinning.“

How do you know that? Is the arm of the Lord too short to save?

Then there’s this large chunk of asinine condescension:

“Very good question. It shows respect for Scripture, even if not understanding it perfectly.”

Said one believer to another… so much for supporting the weaker brother, if indeed, the weaker brother is the one with the misunderstanding of scripture.

And then, as if God needed anything from us, this gem of self-righteousness:

“HE chose us in this hour because HE knew we would take care of business.”

“We would take care of business”??? As if!

“we” are God’s workmanship. He does all He wills through us.

And then Alfred responded above. Great on you sir! Excellent understanding and implementation of scripture.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Rev
{3:15} I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. {3:16} So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Notice in His address to the churches, Jesus only says He knows our works. He never says, I know your faith. That's because the righteous Lord judges our faith only by our works, as in James 2.

Lukewarm faith of lukewarm believers therefore, is known by works, that are neither cold nor hot, neither good nor evil.

Lukewarm works neither do only good, nor only evil, but do both evil and good.

Gen
{3:5} For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

The promise of the devil is made when a son sins and disobeys God: to be as a god knowing they are now doing both evil and good.

The Lord's command to the lukewarm doers of both good and evil, is the same to all men everywhere: Get hot and repent from all the sinning and trespassing, and only do His good will on earth.

Lukewarm faith is with lukewarm repentance, that only results in doing both evil and good, more or less.

The lukewarm religion is by the lukewarm faith of only seeking to sin less than before, not to sin no more and only do that which pleases the Father and the Son.

John
{8:29} And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

The pure religion of Jesus Christ is only hot to sin not and do His good pleasure. Being hot and alive in Christ Jesus, is keeping ourselves from sinning with the world, by doing His will only.

The faith of lukewarm repenters only seeks to do more good than evil, and sin less. The sinless faith of Jesus Christ is is only for them that repent of all sins and trespasses, so as to only do good for His name's sake.

There is no such moral stance as "neither good nor evil". Evil is the absence of good, when you cease to be good, you automatically becomes evil. "Lukewarm" means useless, a lukewarm Christian is good for nothing, can't be used for one way or the other as they're indulging in themselves, therefore they'll be "spit out". That's a reference of the Israelites being spit out of the Holy Land due to their disobedience. When a church is being lukewarm, the same fate befalls upon it, God will remove His divine protection and expose it to the corrupt evil spirits of the outside world.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

From Revelation 3:19 to the church of Laodicea "Those whom I love I reprove, and discipline so be zealous and repent." and from Revelation 3:20 "...I stand at the door and knock...". Also, from Hebrews 13:13-14 "Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured. For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come."

Please keep in mind the above verses. Cold water was brought to Laodicea from Colossae springs but by the time it reached Laodicea it was lukewarm, and lukewarm water is good for nothing but to be spit out. Christ suggests that we should leave Laodicea and go to the source of the springs in Colossae (read the Colossae epistle for more encouragement). In essence, Scripture states that even though one is not saved yet by being in Laodicea, Christ still loves that person and keeps knocking on the door and urging to leave Laodicea. Laodicea is a spiritual condition that in the present does not lead to salvation but one has the potential to be saved by fully repenting and believing the gospel of Christ and walking as he walked out of Laodicea to the source of the springs in Colossae.

2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient towards you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." Truly, the Lord is patient towards those weak in faith.

Yeah, also note that this is the only church that has the audacity to boast before God, and the only church which Jesus has no good thing to say. All other six churches receive some compliments, but non for this one.

 

[gordontimmy]

The argument at hand is half hearted believers and feigned faith of lukewarm works.

What you are saying is half believe, which is to neither see Jesus Christ as risen nor dead, but to be in some kind of purgatory.

Lets see again the true testimony of scripture, not you or anyone giving their own various scriptural ideas, but just as revealed.

The righteousness of God is revealed, ( the dying and rising again of Jesus Christ from the dead to believe and be saved. Romans 10:9-10.) and the just live by faith.

Also the wrath of God is revealed from heaven ( the judgement of the world because Christ came from heaven to earth) against all the ungodliness and unrighteousness of men lying against the truth. ( who are not the just, who do not live by faith/ the unbeliever.)

The unbeliever is given over to a reprobate mind, they are not lukewarm, they are COLD, and not HOT, they are filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, full of envy ( and strife as this forum) murder and debate, deceit, backbiters, despitefully hating God, they are proud, boasters, inventing evil things ( these forum talkers) they are known by WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING, breaking the covenant, no natural affection, implacable ( strong opinion that wont change as all on the forums) unmerciful, and all who do these things are WORTHY OF DEATH...



Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[gordontimmy]

Romans 1 continues the same testimony for Romans 2.

To not do the same things as the unbeliever, and think you can escape the judgement of God.

It is despising the riches of the goodness of God forbearance and longsuffering, to not know ( believe) that the goodness of God leads us to repentance.

It is a hard heart that only TREASURES ( as Revelation 3 increased with goods/treasure up WRATH.) up to itself wrath against the day of wrath of the righteous judgement of God.

Rendered to every man are his works, ( as in Revelation 3...I know thy works.)

There are those 1. ( notice there is no such thing as the threads idea of lukewarm believers) who by continual patience in well doing, and then there are those 2, who are contentious, who do not obey the truth, ( number 1 obeys the truth) but these obey unrighteousness, they are the ones who DO EVIL. ( number 1 continue in well/good doing working good.)

There is no respect of persons with God, there is no in between, no lukewarm believer...



Romans 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

 

[gordontimmy]

There is no such moral stance as "neither good nor evil". Evil is the absence of good, when you cease to be good, you automatically becomes evil. "Lukewarm" means useless, a lukewarm Christian is good for nothing, can't be used for one way or the other as they're indulging in themselves, therefore they'll be "spit out". That's a reference of the Israelites being spit out of the Holy Land due to their disobedience. When a church is being lukewarm, the same fate befalls upon it, God will remove His divine protection and expose it to the corrupt evil spirits of the outside world.

due to them being not children of faith...



Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.



Those of faith are the children of Abraham.

All are the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus...



Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[gordontimmy]

Again for the forum there is no warm, there is hot, there is believing, and there is cold, not believing.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

due to them being not children of faith...



Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.



Those of faith are the children of Abraham.

All are the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus...



Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

OP points out that Jesus acknowledged the Laodicean church's WORK, not faith. He said "I know your work", not "your faith." In fact, his opening line in all seven letters to the seven churches is "I know your work". Faith without work is dead.

 

[gordontimmy]

OP points out that Jesus acknowledged the Laodicean church's WORK, not faith. He said "I know your work", not "your faith." In fact, his opening line in all seven letters to the seven churches is "I know your work". Faith without work is dead.

Faith and works is nothing without charity...


1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.





OP "Lukewarm faith of lukewarm believers therefore, is known by works, that are neither cold nor hot, neither good nor evil.

Lukewarm works neither do only good, nor only evil, but do both evil and good."





There are neither lukewarm believers nor lukewarm faith, there is hot or cold, believing or unbelieving...



Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, WHOSOVER BELIEVETH ON HIM SHALL NOT BE ASHAMED.

Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.