[__ Science __ ] Man was in Pangaea

[dwb001]

I'd be open to your evidence that nothing exists until it's mentioned in the Bible. What do you have?

Heavens and Earth... Gen 1:1

 

[dwb001]

I'm accepting what it says. You're adding things.

Book doesn't say literal days. That's your addition.

So why do you cling to a religion where, according to you, the first lines of the holy book don't say what they seem to say?
When push comes to shove do you favour the Bible or science?
If a day has an evening and morning... would you not say that is a literal day?
When do you switch from science to faith? Does the science stop with the rocks? Are you an evolution believer?
Which translation of the Bible uses ages instead of days? Do days start to be 24 hours after the Sun and Moon get created?
How can the Earth be formed before the Sun? Do you not believe the Gen 1 account to be truthful?

 

[Barbarian]

So why do you cling to a religion where, according to you, the first lines of the holy book don't say what they seem to say?

If you think the first lines don't say what they seem to say, I would have to conclude that you are mistaken. They mean exactly what they say. They just don't mean what some people have revised them to say.

When push comes to shove do you favour the Bible or science?

Depends on what is to be done. If it's to understand God and man and our relationship, then the Bible is best. It it's to determine the age of the solar system, then we have to go elsewhere; the Bible doesn't say how old it is. As Galileo remarked, the Bible tells you how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go.

If you try to use science for your bible or your Bible for science, you will make a serious error.

 

[Cooper]

It is very probable that the ark landed when the continents were still together. It is also likely that the tower of Babel happened ((over a century after the flood year) on the supercontinent. That would make it easy for man and animals and plants to migrate to the various areas and what are now separate continents. Something changed quickly and the continents separated, carrying all the people and life on them. This seems to have happened at the same time as the lifespans of men dropping suddenly and drastically. (the best plotting of when lifespans changed points not to the flood but the time of Peleg) It was also in the days of Peleg that the bible says that the world was split or divided. That includes nations and languages, but many also believe it includes the physical division of the land masses.
This thread is to discuss the scientific or historical aspects of this.

How long do you think it would take for water to gouge out the rock of the Grand Canyon?

 

[dwb001]

If you think the first lines don't say what they seem to say, I would have to conclude that you are mistaken. They mean exactly what they say. They just don't mean what some people have revised them to say.

Good... so you agree that a day is a day... 24 hrs... one revolution of the planet.

Depends on what is to be done. If it's to understand God and man and our relationship, then the Bible is best. It it's to determine the age of the solar system, then we have to go elsewhere; the Bible doesn't say how old it is. As Galileo remarked, the Bible tells you how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go.

If you try to use science for your bible or your Bible for science, you will make a serious error.

Incorrect again. Science and the Bible work perfectly together.

 

[dwb001]

How long do you think it would take for water to gouge out the rock of the Grand Canyon?

A day to a week at the most. A catastrophic release of water from a higher location can carve the basic channel in no time... further erosion can add to the depth and width.

 

[Barbarian]

When do you switch from science to faith?

When it comes to God and man and our relationship.

Does the science stop with the rocks? Are you an evolution believer?

You might as well ask if someone is a "gravity believer." We see both of them in operation every day. But those things are taken on evidence, not faith.

Which translation of the Bible uses ages instead of days?

They all use "yom" in the earliest texts. Which can mean all sorts of things, like "always", "forever", "in my time", and so on.

Do days start to be 24 hours after the Sun and Moon get created?

The Earth would have to be formed. Since days are defined by one rotational period of the Earth, as marked by the Sun, we need both Earth and Sun to have them. The sun, as you probably know, was formed first in actual time. But as St. Augustine noted, the "yom" in Genesis referred to categories of creation, not literal 24 hour days.

How can the Earth be formed before the Sun?

It wasn't. That's one of the problems with trying to rewrite Genesis 1 as a literal history. Do you not believe the Gen 1 account to be truthful?

 

[Cooper]

A day to a week at the most. A catastrophic release of water from a higher location can carve the basic channel in no time... further erosion can add to the depth and width.

Ha Ha.

 

[dwb001]

Ha Ha.

Spirit Lake.

 

[dwb001]

When it comes to God and man and our relationship.

You might as well ask if someone is a "gravity believer." We see both of them in operation every day. But those things are taken on evidence, not faith.

So you believe in evolution... so there is no need for Jesus in your world view.

They all use "yom" in the earliest texts. Which can mean all sorts of things, like "always", "forever", "in my time", and so on.

What is the most common meaning of "yom" in Hebrew?

The Earth would have to be formed. Since days are defined by one rotational period of the Earth, as marked by the Sun, we need both Earth and Sun to have them. The sun, as you probably know, was formed first in actual time. But as St. Augustine noted, the "yom" in Genesis referred to categories of creation, not literal 24 hour days.

Not as marked by the Sun. If there would be no Sun could the Earth still revolve? Yes it could. Would not a revolution of the Earth not still be a day? Yes it would.
Maybe St. Augustine got it wrong.

It wasn't. That's one of the problems with trying to rewrite Genesis 1 as a literal history. Do you not believe the Gen 1 account to be truthful?

So you disagree with the Bible... So why should I listen to your arguments anymore if you will not accept eye witness testimony of what happened on the first week?

 

[daddd]

How long do you think it would take for water to gouge out the rock of the Grand Canyon?

In the former nature who knows the exact consistency of what is now rock? If I squirt a hose directing it on some concrete sidewalk that has not hardened fully yet, we can get a little channel. So I suppose that a lot depends on our starting assumptions. Why, have you some facts to bring to bear?

 

[Barbarian]

A day to a week at the most. A catastrophic release of water from a higher location can carve the basic channel in no time... further erosion can add to the depth and width.

Not possible. The meanders of the Grand Canyon can only be formed over a long period of time by a very old river. If you look at the gully formed by the sudden flow from Mt. St. Helens or the canyons of the Channeled Scablands, you will see that a sudden large flush of water will not produce something like the Grand Canyon.

 

[Barbarian]

So you believe in evolution... so there is no need for Jesus in your world view.

Why do you think gravity or evolution makes Jesus unnecessary? Do you not understand why He had to come and die for us on the Cross? Are you a Christian?

 

[dwb001]

Not possible. The meanders of the Grand Canyon can only be formed over a long period of time by a very old river. If you look at the gully formed by the sudden flow from Mt. St. Helens or the canyons of the Channeled Scablands, you will see that a sudden large flush of water will not produce something like the Grand Canyon.

Right... a deep canal then erosion over a longer period of time to get some wiggles.

 

[dwb001]

Why do you think gravity or evolution makes Jesus unnecessary? Do you not understand why He had to come and die for us on the Cross? Are you a Christian?

I would wonder about your faith more than mine.
Evolution would say that death was part of God's good plan.
But death came by Adam.
So if death was not the payment for sin... why was Jesus necessary.

This is the natural outworking of an Old Earth model. Jesus becomes a victim of God rather then the Saviour of mankind.
Why would you put your faith in a victim?

 

[Cooper]

In the former nature who knows the exact consistency of what is now rock? If I squirt a hose directing it on some concrete sidewalk that has not hardened fully yet, we can get a little channel. So I suppose that a lot depends on our starting assumptions. Why, have you some facts to bring to bear?

Fact number one. Satan, standing on a mountain, showed Jesus all the nations of the earth. The Bible is about the nation of Israel that was created in the days of Abram about four thousand years ago. It was a new creation. There were other nations going back long before Abram and Israel.

 

[Barbarian]

What is the most common meaning of "yom" in Hebrew?

Unspecified period of time, from what Hebrew scholars tell me. But of course, if Gen 1 says the world was made in 6 yom and Gen. 2 says it was made in one yom, clearly it means something besides a period of time.

Not as marked by the Sun. If there would be no Sun could the Earth still revolve? Yes it could. Would not a revolution of the Earth not still be a day? Yes it would.
Maybe St. Augustine got it wrong.

Since the account speaks of morning and evenings it's a bigger problem than that. By definition in Hebrew and English, morning is sunrise and evening is sunset. So a spinning Earth wouldn't fit the narrative, if there was no Sun. This wasn't a problem for the Hebrew who wrote the text; he assumed the Earth was a flat disc with a solid domelike sky over it.

 

[daddd]

Fact number one. Satan, standing on a mountain, showed Jesus all the nations of the earth. The Bible is about the nation of Israel that was created in the days of Abram about four thousand years ago. It was a new creation. There were other nations going back long before Abram and Israel.

Not sure what you are talking about. Israel came along after the flood not in Adam's time.

 

[dwb001]

Unspecified period of time, from what Hebrew scholars tell me. But of course, if Gen 1 says the world was made in 6 yom and Gen. 2 says it was made in one yom, clearly it means something besides a period of time.

Since the account speaks of morning and evenings it's a bigger problem than that. By definition in Hebrew and English, morning is sunrise and evening is sunset. So a spinning Earth wouldn't fit the narrative, if there was no Sun. This wasn't a problem for the Hebrew who wrote the text; he assumed the Earth was a flat disc with a solid domelike sky over it.

Would not be a problem if there was light. As Gen 1 says... light without sun. Easy.

 

[daddd]

Unspecified period of time, from what Hebrew scholars tell me. But of course, if Gen 1 says the world was made in 6 yom and Gen. 2 says it was made in one yom, clearly it means something besides a period of time.

Since the account speaks of morning and evenings it's a bigger problem than that. By definition in Hebrew and English, morning is sunrise and evening is sunset. So a spinning Earth wouldn't fit the narrative, if there was no Sun. This wasn't a problem for the Hebrew who wrote the text; he assumed the Earth was a flat disc with a solid domelike sky over it.

God hovered. if He was moving (as He was) then the light moved. Hence morning and Evening dark and light. He is light. Later the sun took over. There was always light.