Manipulating Symbols

[theLords]

Why are we so wicked? Do you really think you are a wicked person? I dont think Im a wicked person and Im responsible for my own actions not someone else. If I do something wicked it comes from me therefore I take full responsibility for it Satan didint do it and God doesnt take the punishment for me its mine to take otherwise I would view myself as weak. And if it was Gods plan in the first place why are you to blame?

Okay, you're good and you desire to take the punishment for your sins. If there is a God, you can tell Him that when you meet Him.

But, what about Hitler? Stalin? Child molesters? Rapists? Murderers? What should the punishment be for someone who rapes a woman from 5 to 16? Prison? Death? Heaven? How long should that person suffer the consequences? What if he was a serial rapists? Now how long should his punishment be?

 

[Lance_Iguana]

But, what about Hitler? Stalin? Child molesters? Rapists? Murderers?

They are accountable for their own actions.

What should the punishment be for someone who rapes a woman from 5 to 16?

Remove them from teh populous.

Prison?

Yep.

Death?

Nope, let them learn and grow.

Heaven?

Actually if they give themselves over to Jesus and repent, then they get heaven.

How long should that person suffer the consequences?

Your God say for all time and beyond.

What if he was a serial rapists?

Lock them away.

Now how long should his punishment be?

Your God has only one time sentence. Forever, unless they repent.

 

[theLords]

They are accountable for their own actions.

Remove them from teh populous. Yep. Nope, let them learn and grow. Actually if they give themselves over to Jesus and repent, then they get heaven.

Your God say for all time and beyond.

Lock them away.

Your God has only one time sentence. Forever, unless they repent.

I asked that question wanting to know a personal answer/opinion, not what the Bible says.

 

[Winters Eve]

Okay, you're good and you desire to take the punishment for your sins. If there is a God, you can tell Him that when you meet Him.

But, what about Hitler? Stalin? Child molesters? Rapists? Murderers? What should the punishment be for someone who rapes a woman from 5 to 16? Prison? Death? Heaven? How long should that person suffer the consequences? What if he was a serial rapists? Now how long should his punishment be?

The first part made my day lol Ill be sure to let God know. I dont think Im good or evil I think Im both good and Evil and I believe both are inside every man I would rather think of myself as balanced because both evil and good exist for a reason if you are one extreme or the other I believe you will never question anything and remain an unbalanced individual Im not talking about you as a person I dont know you I mean in general. So evil as it were has its purpose. As far as the people you have mentioned these motives and actions can come from anybody these people have let one side take over and acted on them thus they become unbalanced. These types of people should be punished and dealt with here on earth accordingly and some severly we live on this planet so should we be punished on this planet if it is deserved.

 

[jasoncran]

Why are we so wicked? Do you really think you are a wicked person? I dont think Im a wicked person and Im responsible for my own actions not someone else. If I do something wicked it comes from me therefore I take full responsibility for it Satan didint do it and God doesnt take the punishment for me its mine to take otherwise I would view myself as weak. And if it was Gods plan in the first place why are you to blame?

i was, and would be if christ didnt die for me.

i conned money from my mother and others so that for personal gain, though that is a long story.

i dont blame satan for all of it, he is merely the temptor and lets us being fallen do the deeds.

if a child hangs us with adult and commits a crime the adult will be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor and or the crime the minor commited.

that isnt a far stretch from what satan does. we think we can overcome sin ourselved and he lets us and then tempts us elsewhere.

theres more to my story then you imagine.
something you wont consider a sin nor wicked so i wont go into that.

 

[Winters Eve]

i was, and would be if christ didnt die for me.

i conned money from my mother and others so that for personal gain, though that is a long story.

i dont blame satan for all of it, he is merely the temptor and lets us being fallen do the deeds.

if a child hangs us with adult and commits a crime the adult will be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor and or the crime the minor commited.

that isnt a far stretch from what satan does. we think we can overcome sin ourselved and he lets us and then tempts us elsewhere.

theres more to my story then you imagine.
something you wont consider a sin nor wicked so i wont go into that.

Fair enough I know Ive had my fair share of wickedness but that doesnt make me a wicked person I just made mistakes everyone carrys a shame or two but mistakes are just a lesson in life not something to whip your self over. I just picked up on that because Wicked is a very strong word to use and most folks I know are not Wicked people.

cheers.

 

[jasoncran]

Fair enough I know Ive had my fair share of wickedness but that doesnt make me a wicked person I just made mistakes everyone carrys a shame or two but mistakes are just a lesson in life not something to whip your self over. I just picked up on that because Wicked is a very strong word to use and most folks I know are not Wicked people.

cheers.

a thief will say the same, and a liar and a murderer will too.

the former two are the things i did.conning and some stealing i did do, but that was done by bad checks.

 

[Winters Eve]

a thief will say the same, and a liar and a murderer will too.

the former two are the things i did.conning and some stealing i did do, but that was done by bad checks.

hmmm I learned something the other day or had a thought. I saw a friend I hadint seen in years by coincidence in a shop we both happened to be in. We used to hang out smoke pot and get wasted in general back in the day anyway he was a christian at one point as was I for many years we both got quite involved in it.
Anyway he ended up moving and that was that. I asked what he had been up to he said I lived on the street for a few years and I have just come out of jail and Ive been sober since and his main mission in life was to stay sober and he said it took that for me to get back to the lord again.
Now I am anti christian establishment not "christians as people" and have my beliefs about it which I will not go into but what did resonate in me is that some people do need a belief system if not all in one way or another Im not trying to be patronizing this is just something that hit me that day and I never really saw this side of it. It came to my attention that this is what he needed without it he would be in jail again or doing hard drugs and just be lost in general I could see he had been through the mud and having a master gave him a kind of peace and comfort and something with purpose. Straight away I thought to myself Hmmm maybe I have been to hard in my views I could see he needed to believe in something.
Just something I thought Id share it.

 

[theLords]

hmmm I learned something the other day or had a thought. I saw a friend I hadint seen in years by coincidence in a shop we both happened to be in. We used to hang out smoke pot and get wasted in general back in the day anyway he was a christian at one point as was I for many years we both got quite involved in it.
Anyway he ended up moving and that was that. I asked what he had been up to he said I lived on the street for a few years and I have just come out of jail and Ive been sober since and his main mission in life was to stay sober and he said it took that for me to get back to the lord again.
Now I am anti christian establishment not "christians as people" and have my beliefs about it which I will not go into but what did resonate in me is that some people do need a belief system if not all in one way or another Im not trying to be patronizing this is just something that hit me that day and I never really saw this side of it. It came to my attention that this is what he needed without it he would be in jail again or doing hard drugs and just be lost in general I could see he had been through the mud and having a master gave him a kind of peace and comfort and something with purpose. Straight away I thought to myself Hmmm maybe I have been to hard in my views I could see he needed to believe in something.
Just something I thought Id share it.

Or maybe as he was engulfed in such deep pain, he found something, or rather, someOne??? maybe he met someOne? someOne who changed his life? someOne who was with him when everyone else abandoned him.

man is prone to arrogance, not humility. if a man overcomes an addiction he wants the glory; how many people are willing to say "it's only by the grace of GOd that i've overcome." not very many...

 

[Winters Eve]

Or maybe as he was engulfed in such deep pain, he found something, or rather, someOne??? maybe he met someOne? someOne who changed his life? someOne who was with him when everyone else abandoned him.

man is prone to arrogance, not humility. if a man overcomes an addiction he wants the glory; how many people are willing to say "it's only by the grace of GOd that i've overcome." not very many...

I think most people are anawre of just how strong they can be and the potential that lives inside themselves. When someone is in deep pain that is so deep they lose themselves particularly if they never new themsleves in the first place and alot of people dont therefore it is easy to grasp onto something else when its offered this becomes a master for there lives instead of realising there own potential. I was addicted to a few things and I can say I indeed overcame it by myself Nobody else felt what I was going through it was my responsibility I take full glory for it and Im very proud of it! because it wasint easy!!! In my humble opinion Hmmm humility can destroy a mans souls and crush there spirit to be humble is fine Humility is weakness in my book.

 

[theLords]

I once was addicted to a few things and I can say I indeed overcame it by myself Nobody else felt what I was going through it was my responsibility I take full glory for it and Im very proud of it! because it wasint easy!!! In my humble opinion Hmmm humility can destroy a mans souls and crush there spirit to be humble is fine Humility is weakness in my book.

Well, I think you clearly proved my point, lol.

We live in 2 different worlds.

Arrogance and pride is weakness in my book

 

[Winters Eve]

Well, I think you clearly proved my point, lol.

We live in 2

Arrogance and pride is weakness in my book

lol fair enoough Arrogance I agree with you pride is though is different.

 

[jasoncran]

back up. humitily is a weakness?

thats a first.
winters eve, how old are you?

even in buddism and japan of lore that was a virtue!

 

[Mike]

WE, there is plenty of scripture that speaks to pride being the downfall of man, but I don't think scripture is what you're looking for. Pride has always been the root of evil, starting with Satan's own pride and quest for his place above all creation. Pride was how Satan convinced Eve (not you :D ) to fall for his deception. People putting their own selfish ambition over God is connected to pride.

Pride is a stumbling block for those who refuse to acknowledge a Higher Authority than themselves to be accountable to. You've said a number of times here that you don't believe you are wicked. Maybe that word is ugly, too ugly, for you to associate yourself with. But, I believe you're falling in the same trap that many people do; that is to compare ourselves to those around us. By worldly standards, I would agree that the majority of people are not wicked. But in using God's Perfect Holiness as the measuring stick, we are all wicked and could never last in the presence of True Holiness for even 1 second. If you don't recognize the need for a Savior to cover your sinfulness, then the Gospel will sound like folly to you. The Holy Spirit gives us insight into things we could make no sense of and shows us the chasm that stands between us and Perfect Holiness. There will always be a disconnect as long as you are not able to recognize the need for a Savior. Studying the Word reveals the Perfect Nature of God; something that is far beyond our reach.

 

[theLords]

I think most people are anawre of just how strong they can be and the potential that lives inside themselves. When someone is in deep pain that is so deep they lose themselves particularly if they never new themsleves in the first place and alot of people dont therefore it is easy to grasp onto something else when its offered this becomes a master for there lives instead of realising there own potential.

when someone is in deep pain, they are usually the most broken. it's usually in this place people deny God's existence, or believe that God hates them and is punishing them. in this place of darkness, people do not reach out for God. what's the most common asked question by atheists?

"if God is so loving why is there so much pain in the world!" the inability to reconcile this thought is what keeps them away from believing.

However, you did recognize that something was offered! so what happens in that place of darkness when everyone else has abandoned you? who does those people find?

Oh, and everybody has a master, there's no escaping it.

 

[Winters Eve]

back up. humitily is a weakness?

thats a first.
winters eve, how old are you?

even in buddism and japan of lore that was a virtue!

Im very aware that most religions have this word in there doctrine and let me ask you why is this particular word a huge focus in these religions? I think this word amongst others should be removed from existence including the dictionary!
Before I give you my reasoning I would like to hear your answer if you wouldint mind? also Faith is another word is this a gift or something willed? why do you think these words are a huge focus in religion Im just curious as to what your answer will be Muslims included if you would like to answer?

Did you really want to know my age or were you making a Point?

 

[Winters Eve]

WE, there is plenty of scripture that speaks to pride being the downfall of man, but I don't think scripture is what you're looking for. Pride has always been the root of evil, starting with Satan's own pride and quest for his place above all creation. Pride was how Satan convinced Eve (not you :D ) to fall for his deception. People putting their own selfish ambition over God is connected to pride.

Pride is a stumbling block for those who refuse to acknowledge a Higher Authority than themselves to be accountable to. You've said a number of times here that you don't believe you are wicked. Maybe that word is ugly, too ugly, for you to associate yourself with. But, I believe you're falling in the same trap that many people do; that is to compare ourselves to those around us. By worldly standards, I would agree that the majority of people are not wicked. But in using God's Perfect Holiness as the measuring stick, we are all wicked and could never last in the presence of True Holiness for even 1 second. If you don't recognize the need for a Savior to cover your sinfulness, then the Gospel will sound like folly to you. The Holy Spirit gives us insight into things we could make no sense of and shows us the chasm that stands between us and Perfect Holiness. There will always be a disconnect as long as you are not able to recognize the need for a Savior. Studying the Word reveals the Perfect Nature of God; something that is far beyond our reach.

A) Prime example for pride: Lucifer> Ok Ill come back to that?

B) Prime example for Humility Jesus> In your own words why?

C) Im glad you agree your average person is not wicked but rather fallen if you will.

D) I know you know I used to walk the christian path so at one point it was not folly to me and I understood it with a genuine heart and in the right place and Im not coming from a point of say someone who has never been a devout christian.

E) the love of money is the root of all evil:D actually Im just being cheeky never without my humour.

F) I do hold myself accountable to those I love and think are worthy of such respect but I am the master of my own thought world and I think freely and with out limitations.

G) I better stop before I write the whole alphabet.

Finally God created the tree of knowledge and for the most part from it came the knowledge of carnality and darkness that which light was born from and to which it ends this is also the birth of mans will and the span of his mind it is only man who limits it for thier intent and purpose imposed upon another man. God knew this yet he placed it right there using lucifer as a pawn its not like he was surprised by the whole event why?

 

[Winters Eve]

when someone is in deep pain, they are usually the most broken. it's usually in this place people deny God's existence, or believe that God hates them and is punishing them. in this place of darkness, people do not reach out for God. what's the most common asked question by atheists?

"if God is so loving why is there so much pain in the world!" the inability to reconcile this thought is what keeps them away from believing.

However, you did recognize that something was offered! so what happens in that place of darkness when everyone else has abandoned you? who does those people find?

Oh, and everybody has a master, there's no escaping it.

Yes it can go that way to I was using this particular character as an example of extremes because I know just how deep he has gone but yes I see your point.

I do disagree though that everybody has a master outside of themselves or a need for one. If you are meaning in an everyday sense then you have misunderstood me, even though these are easily manipulated. If you are talking psychological or of a spiritual nature then can you embelish on that?

 

[theLords]

I do disagree though that everybody has a master outside of themselves or a need for one. If you are meaning in an everyday sense then you have misunderstood me, even though these are easily manipulated. If you are talking psychological or of a spiritual nature then can you embelish on that?

Well, it's wisdom from the Bible, but also wisdom from The Verve!

"It's a bittersweet symphony this lifeeeeeeee, you're a slave to money, then you dieeeeee." (love that song)

Everyone's a slave to whatever drives them. Worldly freedom is an illusion...

 

[Winters Eve]

Well, it's wisdom from the Bible, but also wisdom from The Verve!

"It's a bittersweet symphony this lifeeeeeeee, you're a slave to money, then you dieeeeee." (love that song)

Everyone's a slave to whatever drives them. Worldly freedom is an illusion...

lol wisdom from the Verve aye. Ok thanks for your reply