Marijuana VS Pork

[Bob Carabbio]

"gods"

"I think the use of the Ten Commandments is inappropriate for the issue."

You are entitled to your own opinion - it's a free country - for a while longer, anyway.

I disagree - a "god" is anything you SERVE. It can be "Mary Jane", your CAR, your MUSIC, McRibs at Mc Dee's, Jack Daniels, or Heroin. My "god" was "Pall Mall Regulars" (three packs a day for many years). I'm STILL Addicted - I just haven't "Lit up" for the last 43 years.

"cannabis really is not that addictive!"

Except that folks who USE it - don't seem to quit - just saying. It's seems to be a really good way of making NOTHING happen.

 

[stovebolts]

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

Glad you found that funny West Texas.

What you don't know is that I buried my younger step brother earlier this year because of drugs. What do you tell your 64 year old step mother when she tells you that she will probably out live her children because of drugs? How do you comfort her without flat out lying to her?

 

[Jam]

Re: "gods"

"I think the use of the Ten Commandments is inappropriate for the issue."

You are entitled to your own opinion - it's a free country - for a while longer, anyway.

I disagree - a "god" is anything you SERVE. It can be "Mary Jane", your CAR, your MUSIC, McRibs at Mc Dee's, Jack Daniels, or Heroin. My "god" was "Pall Mall Regulars" (three packs a day for many years). I'm STILL Addicted - I just haven't "Lit up" for the last 43 years.

I agree that, in our terms, a "god" can be interpreted to mean anything that we place as or allow to be our master. My issue is that I think that the commandment referring to "other gods" was not intended to refer to this understanding of the word. Is it not at least a small twist of the Law to use it to out of its original context and intended meaning?

"cannabis really is not that addictive!"

Except that folks who USE it - don't seem to quit - just saying. It's seems to be a really good way of making NOTHING happen.

I don't believe that this is the case: most users do quit before they are 30 (Bachman et al, 1997; Chen and Kandel, 1995). According to Cook et al (1998), the risk of addiction to cannabis is very low for occasional users and even the risk to frequent users is significantly lower than with alcohol. A French government article from the 1990s grouped illicit drugs by their relative addictiveness, and placed cannabis in the group of least addictiveness. Hastings (1990) suggested that cannabis was only 21% as addictive as nicotine, whilst caffeine was 68% and alcohol 81% as addictive. Hall et al (1999) found that only 10% of cannabis users ever even start to use it regularly or frequently, and that most users are not at a large risk of cannabis addiction.

So, cannabis is addictive... but so are many other activies in which we take part that are not considered sinful. For this reason I do not consider it logical to conclude that cannabis is sinful simply because it is possible to become addicted to it.

 

[childeye]

John the baptist came neither drinking or eating and he was called crazy. The son of man came both drinking and eating and he was called a wino and a glutton.

 

[Prentis]

Our training on this earth is to learn to forsake our natural senses, and walk by the Spirit. Thus we can draw life from God even in the darkest of places and times.

Marijuana stimulates our sense. Why would we do this if we are seeking to learn to crucify these senses? :help

 

[westtexas]

Glad you found that funny West Texas.

What you don't know is that I buried my younger step brother earlier this year because of drugs. What do you tell your 64 year old step mother when she tells you that she will probably out live her children because of drugs? How do you comfort her without flat out lying to her?

You have my apology Jeff if I offended you in any way. I remember the loss of your brother. I'm sure you remember from my posts where I have been also. There is absolutely no future in drug use. Your statement of "drugs suck" just caused a laugh for some reason. Sometimes we don't realize the pain we cause with our actions. I meant no harm. Again, I apologize if I have offended you in any way.

God bless, Ray

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Ray,

No need to apologize and I understand where you got your chuckle. It did kind of have that jingle to it didn't it?

Honestly, not sure why I retaliated that way.... suppose I'm still working it out. I've just reminded myself of an old cat we used to have growing up. You'd be on the pot and he'd come up purring and start rubbing himself back and forth on your legs. You'd reach down to pet him and about three strokes later he had his claws into your hand...

Sorry.

 

[Jam]

Marijuana stimulates our sense.

Cannabis is not a stimulant; in fact, it has almost the opposite effect. Caffeine, however, does stimulate our senses, and no-one (ok- hardly anyone) claims that caffeine use is necessarily sinful.

 

[stovebolts]

Cannabis is not a stimulant; in fact, it has almost the opposite effect. Caffeine, however, does stimulate our senses, and no-one (ok- hardly anyone) claims that caffeine use is necessarily sinful.

Yeah, and I've never seen a police man pull you over for having a cup of joe between your legs either. I guess I'm just not seeing your point. :morning Ohhh the atrocities Starbucks has caused...

 

[Jam]

Yeah, and I've never seen a police man pull you over for having a cup of joe between your legs either. I guess I'm just not seeing your point. :morning Ohhh the atrocities Starbucks has caused...

I'm just saying that it is logically inconsistent to assert that cannabis use is wrong because it is stimulant, but that caffeine use is ok despite it being a stimulant. Either the use of stimulants is wrong and we do not use cannabis or caffeine, or the use of stimulants is not wrong and we may use either (neglecting other factors for the sake of this analogy).

Regardless, cannabis is not a stimulant so the point is moot ;)

 

[tig]

Great topic, as it is relevant in today's world as it is more acceptable and, I think, will be coming up for legalization more and more until it is finally legalized (at least, that is how I see it going).

And great responses from both sides here. I'm in limbo over this issue myself, as I see no direct prohibition from the scriptures, and there seems to be no real hard core studies on it to prove that it is as harmful as some people say (or harmful at all). I'm sure those studies will be forthcoming. Can't wait to see what they yield.

On the other side, it does seem to be an activity of the lawless and immoral, or at least the public display of it's usage seems to be. Though there seems to be a large part of society that uses it privately and discretely. Some people suggest it encourages lawless behavior, or makes people more prone to engage in such behavior (besides that of using it). And I think it probably does in newer users, but more experienced users say it does not.

There are also arguments that the crop itself is one that could completely revolutionize our industries, both health and commercial, ect. I'm holding off on a rush to judgement. And in the mean time I think if we keep in mind that whatsoever we do, we are to do it to the glory of God, that will guide us into all right thinking and doing.

May God bless us with the mind of Christ in this matter, as in all matters.

 

[stovebolts]

I'm just saying that it is logically inconsistent to assert that cannabis use is wrong because it is stimulant, but that caffeine use is ok despite it being a stimulant. Either the use of stimulants is wrong and we do not use cannabis or caffeine, or the use of stimulants is not wrong and we may use either (neglecting other factors for the sake of this analogy).

Regardless, cannabis is not a stimulant so the point is moot ;)

Sorry light, but weed and logic don't mesh.... Don't get me wrong, but sometimes logic is completly over rated. Take weed for example, people don't smoke weed to think more logically. Actually, most get dumber and dumber the longer they do it, so logically speaking, does that mean they want to become more dumber? Or does it simply mean they enjoy the high?

But hey, it's good for the chip and dip industry right? Heck, let em get stoned long enough and kill enough brain cells and we can label them with a form of mental illness. I hear the term bi-polar is very popular now. Kind of a catch all. Hmmm... wonder why I've never heard anyone with a coffee habit get labeled bi-polar? But they do urinate often don't they and boy are they busy.

 

[stovebolts]

Great topic, as it is relevant in today's world as it is more acceptable and, I think, will be coming up for legalization more and more until it is finally legalized (at least, that is how I see it going).

And great responses from both sides here. I'm in limbo over this issue myself, as I see no direct prohibition from the scriptures, and there seems to be no real hard core studies on it to prove that it is as harmful as some people say (or harmful at all). I'm sure those studies will be forthcoming. Can't wait to see what they yield.

On the other side, it does seem to be an activity of the lawless and immoral, or at least the public display of it's usage seems to be. Though there seems to be a large part of society that uses it privately and discretely. Some people suggest it encourages lawless behavior, or makes people more prone to engage in such behavior (besides that of using it). And I think it probably does in newer users, but more experienced users say it does not.

There are also arguments that the crop itself is one that could completely revolutionize our industries, both health and commercial, ect. I'm holding off on a rush to judgement. And in the mean time I think if we keep in mind that whatsoever we do, we are to do it to the glory of God, that will guide us into all right thinking and doing.

May God bless us with the mind of Christ in this matter, as in all matters.

Hi Tig,

Well, you already know my opinion... you know, the pot they are smoking today makes what we smoked 20 years ago seem like kids stuff. And did we mention it kills brain cells? But then, so does huffing model cement or even gas... except weed doesn't give you the headache. But come to think of it, cafeeen withdrawel with give ya a pretty big headache too... but I don't think it kills brain cells.

And last time I remember, smoking weed and getting stoned just kind of makes you sling back, relax and just watch the world go by. The perfect ocupation, especially when you can collect state funds huh?

And we think they're stupid... I think we're the stupid ones. /rant

 

[jasoncran]

it doenst help those with bi-polar or any pyschosis.

 

[Jam]

Ok, here are some points that I think it is important for us to remember/realise:
-cannabis use is far less addictive than some behaviours that we do not consider sinful
-there is no evidence that cannabis causes bipolar affective disorder; there is anecdotal evidence that it helps those with bipolar affective disorder
-there is no evidence that cannbis makes people "dumber" or less intelligent; many studies have shown cannabis use to promote brain cell growth
-it is possible to use cannabis without smoking it, thereby removing the possibility of smoke-associated diseases and conditions

Having said that,
-it is possible to be addicted to cannabis, and any addiction is sinful
-the majority of users do smoke cannabis, and the harmful effects are as bad as (if not worse than) those associated with the smoking of tobacco
-there is a link between cannabis use and the likelihood of having a psychotic episode in later life, even if it is rather weak

 

[jasoncran]

pot is linked to cancer. i cant speak for the others but i say tobacco smoking is a sin.

few can smoke that only once and or lightly.

but one can work and operate machinery while smoking. one cant say that with the first time use with pot. i wouldnt want a firefighter token moments before he had to save my life.

 

[Jam]

pot is linked to cancer. i cant speak for the others but i say tobacco smoking is a sin.

few can smoke that only once and or lightly.

I agree. Smoking cannabis is, with respect to cancers and lung disease, at least as bad as - if not worse than - smoking tobacco.

but one can work and operate machinery while smoking. one cant say that with the first time use with pot. i wouldnt want a firefighter token moments before he had to save my life.

So we could therefore make the case that it is wrong to use cannabis if one is shortly thereafter likely to be involved in a situation in which being stoned would cause others (or, perhaps, oneself) danger or inconvenience. Using cannabis immediately before driving or going to work (for example) would, I think, be sinful.

 

[jasoncran]

of course. that is why most states havent passed the so called medical marijuana act.

even with the non-sinful medical use. one shouldnt drive etc.of course if one needs it one cant work.

 

[stovebolts]

Ok, here are some points that I think it is important for us to remember/realise:
-cannabis use is far less addictive than some behaviours that we do not consider sinful

Define sinful behavior anyway you like. That's not my argument. The addiction isn't physical, it's mental. One doesn't go through physical withdrawal when they stop smoking weed. They go through emotional withdrawal. Why? Because they are chasing that high, or running from something they can't confront in their life. Fact is, weed alters the way one thinks and it's not for the best.

-there is no evidence that cannabis causes bipolar affective disorder; there is anecdotal evidence that it helps those with bipolar affective disorder

Hogwash. Not only that, but bipolar is the new label just like ADHD was 20 years ago and is being mis-diagnosed over and over.

-there is no evidence that cannbis makes people "dumber" or less intelligent; many studies have shown cannabis use to promote brain cell growth

Hogwash. Why do you think kids who smoke weed get bad grades? It's because you can't think intelligently when your high. When I quit smoking weed, it was like a cloud was lifted off my brain and I could think. Ironically, my 21 year old daughter smoked weed for several years and last year she quite too. And you know what she said about 2 weeks after she quit? "Wow Dad, my mind is so much cleaner, I can think".

I told her she'll feel that brightness of free flowing thought come back in waves and the last one will be about a year out.

I don't know where your reading your smut, but you aint going to change what this old dog KNOWS from experience and has been recently affirmed by my own daughter.

-it is possible to use cannabis without smoking it, thereby removing the possibility of smoke-associated diseases and conditions

If you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to want a glass of milk. Listen, I don't have a problem putting it in pill form for some people that can use it responsibly for medicinal purposes. But we're not really talking about that.

Having said that,
-it is possible to be addicted to cannabis, and any addiction is sinful
-the majority of users do smoke cannabis, and the harmful effects are as bad as (if not worse than) those associated with the smoking of tobacco
-there is a link between cannabis use and the likelihood of having a psychotic episode in later life, even if it is rather weak

See above

 

[Jam]

The addiction isn't physical, it's mental. One doesn't go through physical withdrawal when they stop smoking weed. They go through emotional withdrawal. Why? Because they are chasing that high, or running from something they can't confront in their life. Fact is, weed alters the way one thinks and it's not for the best.

The difference between physical and mental addiction is all but irrelevant: both are forms of addiction, and both cause physical withdrawal symptoms (as well as mental). I freely admitted in one of my previous posts that cannabis is psychologically addictive; not "physically".

Regardless, this is irrelevant. I posted numerous scientific sources citing the addictiveness of cannabis as far lower than other substances that we do not consider sinful. It is absurd, then, to give addictiveness as a reason for sinfulness when other things that are more addictive are not considered sinful. They did not just take "physical" addictiveness into account, by the way.

Addiction is sinful. Participating in a behaviour that has the potential to become addictive is not.

Hogwash. Not only that, but bipolar is the new label just like ADHD was 20 years ago and is being mis-diagnosed over and over.

Can you provide any reliable evidence that it causes bipolar?

Here is [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]the evidence to which I referred:
http://www.pendulum.org/bpnews/archive/001628.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15888515?dopt=Abstract
http://www.ukcia.org/research/TheUseofCannabisasaMoodStabilizerinBipolarDisorder.php
http://ehealthforum.com/health/cannabis-for-bipolar-treatment-t226236.html
http://psychcentral.com/news/2010/0...bipolar-and-schizophrenic-patients/15496.html


Essentially, there is hardly any evidence linking cannabis with bipolar at all. I've just thought about it, though, and I don't understand how that would make a difference to whether or not cannabis use is sinful?
[/FONT]

Hogwash. Why do you think kids who smoke weed get bad grades? It's because you can't think intelligently when your high.

Non-sequitur, I'm afraid. Firstly, I'm not even 100% sure the correlation is statistically significant and, secondly, it is simply false to infer cause and effect from a correlation only. There could be any number of reasons why there is a link between smoking cannabis and grades.

When I quit smoking weed, it was like a cloud was lifted off my brain and I could think. Ironically, my 21 year old daughter smoked weed for several years and last year she quite too. And you know what she said about 2 weeks after she quit? "Wow Dad, my mind is so much cleaner, I can think".

I told her she'll feel that brightness of free flowing thought come back in waves and the last one will be about a year out.

I don't know where your reading your smut, but you aint going to change what this old dog KNOWS from experience and has been recently affirmed by my own daughter.

As I mentioned above, anecdotal evidence is simply not reliable. Two personal cases, in which it appears that ceasing cannabis use makes a person think more clearly, is not anywhere close to justification for the assertion that you know that cannabis use makes people dumb.

Here are some studies that are very relevant to your claim:
http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/126/6/1252.short
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cne.903270406/abstract
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...es-growth-of-brain-cells-in-rats-510869.html; http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8155-marijuana-might-cause-new-cell-growth-in-the-brain.html; http://www.jci.org/articles/view/25509

If you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to want a glass of milk. Listen, I don't have a problem putting it in pill form for some people that can use it responsibly for medicinal purposes. But we're not really talking about that.

I was mainly think of vaporisers here, actually, but pills would fit this perfectly well too. I wasn't talking about medicinal use, no; I was simply pointing out that smoke-associated disease is not a valid criticism of cannabis use.