Mary, the mother of the Lord

[LovethroughDove]

In Luke 1, Elizabeth refers to Mary as the mother of the Lord. So when Elizabeth called Mary the mother of the Lord, is Elizabeth referring to Mary being the mother of a human Lord or a God Lord?

Luke 1
43And why am I so honored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Lord over human flesh because he is the Son of Man & Son of God. Not one or the other........

 

[Runningman]

Lord over human flesh because he is the Son of Man & Son of God. Not one or the other........

I believe I can basically agree with that if I understand you correctly. The Son of Man is the Son of God. Though Jesus may have many titles, they all refer to the same person. I don't believe in the hypostatic union. Do you?

John 17
2For You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It doesn't say "those three men are the LORD" or something to that effect. Where did you see that?

18:1, the LORD appeared to Abraham, and Abraham recognized him as the LORD.

 

[Runningman]

The nature of God is what makes God, God, and it is a nature that only he can have. That is, "God is a spirit, infinite, eternal, and unchangeable, in his being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness, and truth."

https://www.ligonier.org/guides/the-nature-of-god

It is like the translation of John 1:1c--"and the Word was God." It is a qualitative statement that could be translated as "and the Word was in nature God," however, since only God can have the nature of God, it is to essentially say the same thing as "and the Word was God."

If the ligonier link is a summary of what you believe about God, it's mostly not scripture, but just opinion. There are many claims in it, but one of the first ones I saw is "In the Old Testament, God reveals Himself to His people by proclaiming to us His names. All these names reflect something of the character of the one true and living God."

Did you know there are a lot of names that YHWH and Jesus don't have in common? For starters, there are not clear examples of Jesus being called YHWH. I have seen people make arguments to the contrary, but there aren't any direct references to this. Exodus 3:14,15 the I AM in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob known as YHWH, but then Acts 3:13 says Jesus is His servant.

The site you gave also quoted R.C. Sproul saying "the most basic affirmation the Scriptures make regarding the nature of God is that He is one.” Yet the Bible says we can be one with God. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 6:17 "But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with Him in spirit." God is Spirit and we can be one with Him. Does that give us the nature of God and make us become God? I would say of course not. That is why I don't believe that the nature of God is what God is. God is a distinct thinking, feeling, talking, person (not to say God is a human) with a nature.

 

[Runningman]

18:1, the LORD appeared to Abraham, and Abraham recognized him as the LORD.

I just looked at 39 different versions and translations and can't find what you're referring to. May I ask what version you're using?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

If the ligonier link is a summary of what you believe about God, it's mostly not scripture, but just opinion. There are many claims in it, but one of the first ones I saw is "In the Old Testament, God reveals Himself to His people by proclaiming to us His names. All these names reflect something of the character of the one true and living God."

Did you know there are a lot of names that YHWH and Jesus don't have in common? For starters, there are not clear examples of Jesus being called YHWH. I have seen people make arguments to the contrary, but there aren't any direct references to this. Exodus 3:14,15 the I AM in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob known as YHWH, but then Acts 3:13 says Jesus is His servant.

The site you gave also quoted R.C. Sproul saying "the most basic affirmation the Scriptures make regarding the nature of God is that He is one.” Yet the Bible says we can be one with God. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 6:17 "But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with Him in spirit." God is Spirit and we can be one with Him. Does that give us the nature of God and make us become God? I would say of course not. That is why I don't believe that the nature of God is what God is. God is a distinct thinking, feeling, talking, person (not to say God is a human) with a nature.

Psalm 110:1, quoted several times in the NT: "The LORD said to my LORD, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” In the original Hebrew, both were YHWH, not master to servant.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I just looked at 39 different versions and translations and can't find what you're referring to. May I ask what version you're using?

Then apparently, 39 false versions and translations. Jewish version reads ADONAI, any decent English translation would read LORD, in all caps, which refers to none other than the Creator God.

 

[Runningman]

Psalm 110:1, quoted several times in the NT: "The LORD said to my LORD, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” In the original Hebrew, both were YHWH, not master to servant.

Yes it's quoted several times in the NT. YHWH said to Jesus sit at His right hand and guess who's right hand Jesus is sitting at? The Father. God is the Father. He is the only true God (John 17:3)

Acts 2
33Exalted, then, to the right hand of God, He has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

 

[Runningman]

Then apparently, 39 false versions and translations. Jewish version reads ADONAI, any decent English translation would read LORD, in all caps, which refers to none other than the Creator God.

I still can't find the quote you provided. I think it doesn't exist, but adonai doesn't always refer to God Almighty.

Anyway, you seem to be saying God appeared as a man or three men, but have you read Daniel 7:9-14? God and the Son of Man aren't the same person. The Messiah is a human, but God isn't.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Yes it's quoted several times in the NT. YHWH said to Jesus sit at His right hand and guess who's right hand Jesus is sitting at? The Father. God is the Father. He is the only true God (John 17:3)

Nonetheless Jesus the Son of Man was called YHWH in Ps. 110:1, not "servant", and to him was given all the kingdom of the earth, Dan. 7:13-14.

“I kept watching the night visions,
when I saw, coming with the clouds of heaven,
someone like a son of man.
He approached the Ancient One
and was led into his presence.
To him was given rulership,
glory and a kingdom,
so that all peoples, nations and languages
should serve him.
His rulership is an eternal rulership
that will not pass away;
and his kingdom is one
that will never be destroyed.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I still can't find the quote you provided. I think it doesn't exist, but adonai doesn't always refer to God Almighty.

"The Lord appeared to him (Abraham) by the terebinth trees of Mamre", that's the textbook definition of theophany. You're in denial.

Anyway, you seem to be saying God appeared as a man or three men, but have you read Daniel 7:9-14? God and the Son of Man aren't the same person. The Messiah is a human, but God isn't.

Why not? God appeared to Abraham along with two angels - who also appeared as men, that makes three.

 

[Runningman]

"The Lord appeared to him (Abraham) by the terebinth trees of Mamre", that's the textbook definition of theophany. You're in denial.

God appeared by the trees. The men were further away and Abraham ran to them. I believe you're in denial.

The translators actually show awareness that the men who were there aren't God. Many versions do not capitalize "lord" when Abraham speaks to them in verse 3.

Why can't God and the men both be there without being the same person?

Why not? God appeared to Abraham along with two angels - who also appeared as men, that makes three.

Where?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

God appeared by the trees. The men were further away and Abraham ran to them. I believe you're in denial.

The translators actually show awareness that the men who were there aren't God. Many versions do not capitalize "lord" when Abraham speaks to them in verse 3.

Why can't God and the men both be there without being the same person?

It was the LORD God speaking to Abraham throughout this chapter, he appeared as one of the three men. Denying that is denying the Scripture.

Where?

Ask yourself.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The translators actually show awareness that the men who were there aren't God. Many versions do not capitalize "lord" when Abraham speaks to them in verse 3.

KJV does, and its translators has greater credibility than you a random guy on the internet.

 

[Randy]

In Luke 1, Elizabeth refers to Mary as the mother of the Lord. So when Elizabeth called Mary the mother of the Lord, is Elizabeth referring to Mary being the mother of a human Lord or a God Lord?

Luke 1
43And why am I so honored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Jesus did not have a human Father. He is the Son of God and Christ the Lord. Clearly above a human Sovereign. As one from above who is above all and speaks from His own mind what He saw and heard.

 

[Runningman]

KJV does, and its translators has greater credibility than you a random guy on the internet.

And I will take the translations that don't capitalize "lord" in Genesis 18:3 rather than what you say, being a random guy on the Internet yourself. However, if you want someone with some credentials, then Barnes Notes on the Bible don't say the three men in Genesis 18 are God, but in some way represent God. This would be more accurate considering God already stated He isn't a man. (Numbers 23:19, Hosea 11:9)

Barnes' Notes on the Bible - Genesis 18:3
"O Lord. - Abraham uses the word אדני 'adonāy denoting one having authority, whether divine or not. This the Masorites mark as sacred, and apply the vowel points proper to the word when it signifies God. These men in some way represent God;"

 

[Runningman]

Jesus did not have a human Father. He is the Son of God and Christ the Lord. Clearly above a human Sovereign. As one from above who is above all and speaks from His own mind what He saw and heard.

Having a human father isn't really an essential point. There are many sons of God without human fathers. Mary being the mother of the Lord refers to the full humanity of Jesus.

 

[JLB]

I am putting you on ignore while the rest of us talk about the OP. I'll unblock you in the future.

Promises, promises.

 

[Free]

If the ligonier link is a summary of what you believe about God, it's mostly not scripture, but just opinion. There are many claims in it, but one of the first ones I saw is "In the Old Testament, God reveals Himself to His people by proclaiming to us His names. All these names reflect something of the character of the one true and living God."

Did you know there are a lot of names that YHWH and Jesus don't have in common? For starters, there are not clear examples of Jesus being called YHWH. I have seen people make arguments to the contrary, but there aren't any direct references to this. Exodus 3:14,15 the I AM in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob known as YHWH,

John 8:58 and Heb 1:10-12.

but then Acts 3:13 says Jesus is His servant.

Which has no bearing on whether or not Jesus is Yahweh. As I have stated repeatedly, Phil 2:6-8 is key here.

The site you gave also quoted R.C. Sproul saying "the most basic affirmation the Scriptures make regarding the nature of God is that He is one.” Yet the Bible says we can be one with God. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 6:17 "But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with Him in spirit." God is Spirit and we can be one with Him. Does that give us the nature of God and make us become God? I would say of course not.

That's because you're again conflating different ideas.

That is why I don't believe that the nature of God is what God is. God is a distinct thinking, feeling, talking, person (not to say God is a human) with a nature.

Have I said anything differently?

 

[Randy]

Having a human father isn't really an essential point. There are many sons of God without human fathers. Mary being the mother of the Lord refers to the full humanity of Jesus.

There is only one Son of Man whose Father is God alone. I don't think of Mary as the mother of God as Jesus was before the world began. I do think of her as the Mother of the Christ though.