Matt 23:1-3 question

[JLB]

Acts 1:8 witnesses of Christ with the power of the Holy Spirit!

Does the leadership of your church teach that we are to be baptized with the Holy Spirit?


And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5


JLB

 

[donadams]

Show me in the text the word immediately please.
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
The text says "after" so that is later...
"came Jesus... into the land of Judaea" so that indicates that He was not in the land of Judaea before this.
"and there He tarried"... some time passed
"and baptized"... and then they baptized.

I just showed a better example of context then you inserting the word immediately where the text says it was in a different time and place.


So you are showing yourself to be a good Catholic... according to your own words.

Apologetics requires thinking and logic not an emotional fundamentalist reaction

There is no baptism reference in John 3:5-6.

whats the water for?

Don’t say natural birth please

Cos it says:
John 3:5

King James Version​

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.​

Born of both and by “water & the spirit”!​

​

“if and I did say if a Protestant has a pea brain a fundamentalists must be microscopic”? Not accusing anyone! ​

​

Thinking and logica​

Only the blood of Christ can wash away our sin

1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood

Did John the Baptist baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, no as neither one had come yet. There is a big difference between John's baptism in water as an outward appearance to others and the Baptism of Christ for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but only the blood of Jesus can wash away our sins, not dirty river water.

How is the blood applied to our souls

Where is this blood? Or don’t you mean the merits of His blood, grace?
Thanks

 

[donadams]

Where are you getting the idea that I believe in soul sleep. There you go reading into things that were never said. Stop it. I'm not even going to dignify this with and answer.

Your post said something about the unconscious in the grave
And I only asked a question not an accusation
No bunker mentality required here

 

[donadams]

Sorry I do not use the 1946 RSV Bible that challenges the KJV of the Bible as no Bible should challenge another one. It's no wonder there is so much division. Considering a proof and actually presenting proof as facts are two different things. Nothing in any of those scriptures you gave say anything about purgatory except for all those names you mentioned that only consider they do.

And acts 1:8 and acts 2:42
They are apostles with the teaching authority of Christ
Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21 etc.

 

[donadams]

Why on earth would any Christian voluntarily inflict self punishement upon themselves as an outward appearance for doing something wrong. We confess our sins to Christ who is our advocate before God who forgives our sins went we confess them to Him, not a Priest.

None of those scriptures you gave say anything about self punishment.

I did not say self punishment I said penance and suffering, even prayer alms and fasting are penance

John 20:21-23

King James Version
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.​

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.​

Philippians 1:29
King James Version
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

What did the church do for 1600 years before the KJV
Or what was the original “authorized version”?​

 

[Paul Timothy]

Apologetics requires thinking and logic not an emotional fundamentalist reaction

whats the water for?

Don’t say natural birth please

I will day natural birth.
Did your m9thers water break when you were born?

Born naturally and born spiritually.

you have not shown why being born of water is not natural birth.
Especially in light of John3:6.
Please explain John 3:5-6 and not stop at verse 5 only.

Cos it says:
John 3:5

King James Version​

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.​

Born of both and by “water & the spirit”!​

​

“if and I did say if a Protestant has a pea brain a fundamentalists must be microscopic”? Not accusing anyone! ​

Yes you are. You are demeaning an entire demographic.

Thinking and logica​

How is the blood applied to our souls

Ask Jesus.

Where is this blood? Or don’t you mean the merits of His blood, grace?
Thanks

Yep... sounds good.

 

[for_his_glory]

Apologetics requires thinking and logic not an emotional fundamentalist reaction

whats the water for?

Don’t say natural birth please

Cos it says:
John 3:5

King James Version​

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.​

Born of both and by “water & the spirit”!​

​

“if and I did say if a Protestant has a pea brain a fundamentalists must be microscopic”? Not accusing anyone! ​

​

Thinking and logica​

How is the blood applied to our souls

Where is this blood? Or don’t you mean the merits of His blood, grace?
Thanks

If you want to ignore exactly what was written in those scriptures I gave about the blood of Jesus that washes away our sins then go right ahead and use your logic as I believe the word of God, not man's logic.

We already know how you feel abut Protestants, but guess what, it's only those who are Spiritually born again from above, indwelled with the Holy Spirit that are God's own by faith in Christ. It's not about being a Catholic or a Protestant or any other religion. Look at the Pharisees, do you really believe they will not be judged and condemned.

 

[for_his_glory]

donadams since you want to make this thread about baptism then here is my whole study I wrote on this subject.

Lev 16:23 And Aaron shall come into the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall put off the linen garments, which he put on when he went into the holy place, and shall leave them there:
Lev 16:24 And he shall wash his flesh with water in the holy place, and put on his garments, and come forth, and offer his burnt offering, and the burnt offering of the people, and make an atonement for himself, and for the people.

The Mikveh (meaning a collection of water) in the OT was a bath used for the purpose of ritual immersion. Several biblical regulations specify that full immersion in water is required to regain ritual purity after ritually impure incidents have occurred. In Priestly law, the ultimate purpose of ritual purification was to protect God's sanctuary, the tabernacle, from contamination, Leviticus chapter 15.

The Mikveh, being a shadow of John's baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit, (IE. Baptism of Christ) was for purification, not for remission of sin, like that of what Esaias prophesied saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight, Isaiah 40:3. In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand and were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins, Matthew 3:1-6. John said, I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire, Matthew 3:11.


Ephesians 2:8 Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus and not by works, which would make water baptism a work towards repentance. John said I must decrease and Jesus increase. John's water baptism was only for repentance as being prepared for the coming of the Lord as the water represented the washing away of sin, or as John put it "prepare ye the way of the Lord". It is not clear in scripture that Jesus ever baptized anyone in water even though He first came to John's water baptism as a fulfillment of prophecy as He had to identify with humanity even though He had no sin. This was the beginning of Christ ministry as the Holy Spirit fell down on Him that day as God gave Him full power and authority here on earth and there after Jesus went about teaching what God gave Him to speak and do. It was not Jesus who the Pharisees heard that He baptized more than John did, John 4:1-3, but His disciples baptizing others in water for remission of sin after the death of John the Baptist as all together they would have baptized others in water for the remission of sin then John could at one time. Jesus could not baptize anyone in the Holy Spirit until the day of Pentecost after He ascended up to the Father and the Father sent down the indwelling Holy Spirit, Acts 2.

John 3:5 never mentions the word baptize, but says only by being born of water and spirit, which means water as living water, word of God, that no one can enter into the kingdom of God unless they are Spiritually renewed (born again) by the hearing of the word, which is Christ Jesus and by the Holy Spirit that came on them in the OT and indwells us in the NT. Many do read into the passage a preconceived idea or theology, but baptism is never mentioned in this verse. God's word is living water as described in John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22.

If salvation came by actual immersion in water Jesus clearly could have simply stated, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is baptized by being immersed in water and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Further, if Jesus had made such a statement, He would have contradicted numerous other Bible passages that make it clear that salvation is by faith (John 3:16; John 3:36; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).

There is the case of the thief on the cross who repented, the women who was to be stoned for adultery, the women at the well, death bed confessions and even those who are incapacitated that can not be immersed in water. Does this mean they are not saved or born again, no. It means that no dirty river water is going to save anyone, but that it is only a symbol of repentance like that of John the baptist who called those to repent first. There is nothing wrong with being dunked in water, but know that it is only an outward appearance to others of what has already taken place Spiritually within you when you repented, accepted Jesus and was indwelled with the Holy Spirit.

Baptism is not mentioned in John chapter three so why do so many believe we are to be dunked in dirty river water as the water can not bring about Gods salvation, but only by faith do we believe as it comes by Gods grace, Ephesians 2:1-10, as we hear the gospel (word/living water) preached to us.

This is what the Jerusalem Bible says:
John 3:3 "I tell you most solemnly, unless a man is born from above, he can not see the kingdom of God."
John 3:5-7 "I tell you most solemnly, unless a man is born through water and the Spirit, he can not enter the kingdom of God. What is born of the flesh is flesh,(sin nature) what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be surprised when I say you must be born from above.

One needs to hear the word of God, as word being living water, in order to know they have to be born again of the Spirit in order to see and enter the kingdom of God.

John's baptism was literal, but yet symbolic for cleansing after one repented of their sin. Notice in Mark 1:8 I have baptized you with (actual) water, but he (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. (Not water, but baptize you with the Holy Spirit after you have repented and made clean again through the washing of the word as you become a new creation in Christ.

Jesus never baptized anyone in literal water that we know of and also instructed the Disciples to wait upon the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, Acts chapter 1, and then commissioned them to go out preaching the Gospel (word/living water) and to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:16-20.

Being born from above means being born from the heavenly word of God, not dirty river water. When Jesus was baptized by John it was for the fulfillment of Messiah come as the Holy Spirit fell down on Him. Jesus had no need of being baptized in water for repentance or the remission of sin, but had to associate with humanity in order to fulfill prophecy.

 

[for_his_glory]

I did not say self punishment I said penance and suffering, even prayer alms and fasting are penance

John 20:21-23

​

​

King James Version​

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.​

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:​

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.​

Philippians 1:29​

King James Version​

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;​

​

What did the church do for 1600 years before the KJV​

Or what was the original “authorized version”?​

Hey, it was you that said we have to do penance and that is what I gave the definition of penance.

What did the Catholic Church do before 1949 without the RSV. Oh that's right as mass was always done in Latin so no one could understand what the Priest was saying.

 

[for_his_glory]

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood............

Can you explain what you mean by this and also give scripture.

 

[donadams]

Why on earth would any Christian voluntarily inflict self punishement upon themselves as an outward appearance for doing something wrong. We confess our sins to Christ who is our advocate before God who forgives our sins went we confess them to Him, not a Priest.

None of those scriptures you gave say anything about self punishment.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind (lacking) of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

What’s lacking, our participation!

 

[donadams]

Well, the law was good and they were to obey it, but the examples of the speakers were bad as they themselves did not obey the law.

No he did not say obey the law

He said those who are in the “seat of Moses”
The successors of moses

Their authority must be obeyed

And the kingdom was taken from them Matt 21:43 and given to Peter and the apostles and those who sit in their seat or successors
And the same authority must be obeyed
Thanks

 

[donadams]

That’s cute!
Not opposing scripture
The “doctrine of scripture is the only authority”!
And scripture opposes all of the solas

 

[Iconoclast]

That’s cute!
Not opposing scripture
The “doctrine of scripture is the only authority”!
And scripture opposes all of the solas

You have swallowed the RC. Koolaid and are not able to consider anything from the bible correctly. You post long rants of fragmented scriptures and no one even looks at them as you do not respond biblically.

 

[donadams]

• the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you;

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:27

• the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true,

Do you believe the apostle John has authority to teach us the truth?




JLB

All Apostles have authority to teach truth and not just in writing (scripture)

Since you claim to be a Christian and have the spirit and the anointing tell me what are the commandments found in Matt 28:29 and acts 1:2 please?

 

[donadams]

No such thing as penance in scripture.



JLB

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:


Rev 2: 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Rev 2:23 .....I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Why not I know Thy faith?
Reward according to youre faith?

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind (lacking) of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

What’s lacking, our participation!

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;


Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

[donadams]

Does the leadership of your church teach that we are to be baptized with the Holy Spirit?


And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5


JLB

They are out church gathered in the upper room with the mother of God and filled with the spirit of promise!
Pentecost

But normally we receive the spirit in baptismal regeneration Jn 3:5
Thanks

Not my church I don’t have one

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19

One church! Jn 10:16

All others are sects full of errors the tradition of men!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No he did not say obey the law

He said those who are in the “seat of Moses”
The successors of moses

Their authority must be obeyed

And the kingdom was taken from them Matt 21:43 and given to Peter and the apostles and those who sit in their seat or successors
And the same authority must be obeyed
Thanks

Jesus taught BEFORE the Kingdom was taken away from the Jews.

 

[donadams]

I will day natural birth.
Did your m9thers water break when you were born?

Born naturally and born spiritually.

you have not shown why being born of water is not natural birth.
Especially in light of John3:6.
Please explain John 3:5-6 and not stop at verse 5 only.

Yes you are. You are demeaning an entire demographic.

Ask Jesus.

Yep... sounds good.

He answers in Mk 16:16

We are spiritually born by water AND the spirit and not spirit only!

We are of the spirit but the flesh is involved, scripture says we are not of this world, but we are in this world, the body being washed is sign of God’s powerful grace washing away all sin and filling us with his grace and a new heart with love of God, our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit!!!

Ezekiel 36:25-27
King James Version
25 Then will I (God) sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.​

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Romans 5:5
King James Version
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

If you cannot even understand the word “if” how can you understand scripture?

“If” you claim to be those things then you are the applying them to yourself and not me!

Thanks ​

 

[Paul Timothy]

He answers in Mk 16:16

We are spiritually born by water AND the spirit and not spirit only!

John 3:6 argues against your position.
You are not admitting that verae into your theology.

We are of the spirit but the flesh is involved, scripture says we are not of this world, but we are in this world, the body being washed is sign of God’s powerful grace washing away all sin and filling us with his grace and a new heart with love of God, our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit!!!

Ezekiel 36:25-27​

King James Version​

25 Then will I (God) sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.​

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Romans 5:5​

King James Version​

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.​

​

If you cannot even understand the word “if” how can you understand scripture?​

​

What "if" are you talking about?

“If” you claim to be those things then you are the applying them to yourself and not me!​

​

What have I claimed?

Thanks ​