Matthew 1:1-25

[journeymanisnothing]

If God's Creation is perfect; why would He require "his people" to alter what was perfect?

Because God created us perfect, not all knowing. God corrects our errors as a loving Father.

God created man in His own image; but the physical body need's to be altered to prove faith to God.

Well our minds are altered and the body follows.

 

[GodsGrace]

There were many different god's, by many different names before Christ was born. But knowledge of the "one true God" was only given to Abraham according to Scriptures.

I don't agree with this.
God revealed Himself to all men.

I may have already replied to this ET.
Sorry if it's a repeat.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Gal.2:11-13

From what I just read of Galatians 2:12; For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. That doesn't say the Disciples had issues eating with the Gentiles?

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Because God created us perfect, not all knowing. God corrects our errors as a loving Father.

We are "his people"; as per Matthew 1:21; God created man in His own image Genesis 1:27. And God is perfect as I understand it.

Well our minds are altered and the body follows.

Who "altered" our minds; and how can the mind "alter" the physical body that God did create perfect?

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

I would agree, God has revealed Himself to all men; it's just the Scriptures focus only on the Tribes of Israel as being the "beginning" of the "one true God".

Which brings me back to Matthew 1:21; if the Tribes of Israel were doing what they were supposed to be doing "spreading the Word of God" why would God send His Son to "save his people from their sins"?

 

[GodsGrace]

Thank you. I do know that you can't believe everything you read on the internet.

I have read the Bible; and I do remember my earliest lessons. I guess I assumed Christ Teachings were about unity of "his people"; not division. The Commandment is, "Love thy neighbor". But I've not found any clause or footnote which indicates that anyone should only love thy neighbor, only if thy neighbor believes the same as they do.

Yes, absolutely.
Jesus said we should be one, united. And also Paul....

Galatians 3:27-28
27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 1:10
10Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment.
John 17:1
20“I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21that they may all be one;


As to enemies....
Jesus said anyone could love a friend...
we're to love even our enemies, otherwise what separates us from the pagans?
Matthew 5:46-47

That's an interesting concept. I thought the forbidden fruit gave knowledge; which might indicate that knowledge is Satan. And I thought Christ gave us the path to righteousness and salvation, a path that any could follow; if they made the choice to do so.

Both of the above is correct.
Eating the forbidden fruit gave the knowledge of evil.
We lost our innocense.
We gained the sin nature.

I was referring to one of the atonement theories.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

From what I just read of Galatians 2:12; For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. That doesn't say the Disciples had issues eating with the Gentiles?

Paul is saying Peter had no problem eating with gentiles, until Jewish believers in Jesus (sent by James) showed up and Peter separated himself from them (the gentiles.)

That's how steeped in Rabbinic Judaism they were. Read Act.21. You can see the problem with how things like circumcision, eating certain foods, etc, would make someone "unclean."

So they had figurative language in the scriptures that these new Jewish converts didn't understand along with a clash of cultures that never occured on that scale before.

Ignoring these facts led some Jews into accusing Paul of teaching against the law.
Read it in any translation that's easiest for you to understand.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

We are "his people"; as per Matthew 1:21; God created man in His own image Genesis 1:27. And God is perfect as I understand it.

So what's the problem?

Who "altered" our minds; and how can the mind "alter" the physical body that God did create perfect?

Scripture says satan (the adversary) who understood good and evil first raiaed a question in Eves' mind and then gave a reason why his way was better than Gods' way.

Once disobedience occured (not to the law, because Eve didn't know good from evil), then she understood why.

What is it you don't understand about that?

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

So what's the problem?

Scripture says satan (the adversary) who understood good and evil first raiaed a question in Eves' mind and then gave a reason why his way was better than Gods' way.

Once disobedience occured (not to the law, because Eve didn't know good from evil), then she understood why.

What is it you don't understand about that?

I don't know if that answered my question; how does the "mind" change the perfect physical body God did create; in His own image?

We are not Satan's people; we are God's people. Satan was never God's equal; the influence Satan did hold on this earth for a short time was about leading people to Sin; no where in the Bible does it say Satan Created anything. Sin is a choice; a decision that each individual makes, Satan doesn't have the capability to "force" anyone to do anything. Much less change the physical body.

 

[hawkman]

I thought the forbidden fruit gave knowledge; which might indicate that knowledge is Satan.

No , knowledge is not Satan . Adam named all the animals plus we really have no idea of the all knowledge Adam did have before the fall . "knowledge of good and evil"


Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I don't know if that answered my question; how does the "mind" change the perfect physical body God did create; in His own image?

After her transgression, God told Eve things that the NT correlates with the church. We no longer go about with no clothes on, because youand I no longer look at a naked woman (which Eve was) and think, "That's Gods' temple. Ok bro?

We are not Satan's people; we are God's people. Satan was never God's equal; the influence Satan did hold on this earth for a short time was about leading people to Sin; no where in the Bible does it say Satan Created anything. Sin is a choice; a decision that each individual makes, Satan doesn't have the capability to "force" anyone to do anything. Much less change the physical body.

All true.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

After her transgression, God told Eve things that the NT correlates with the church. We no longer go about with no clothes on, because youand I no longer look at a naked woman (which Eve was) and think, "That's Gods' temple. Ok bro?

If that is a question, I guess I understand some of that. But that still doesn't explain how our "mind was altered and the body followed"?

Well our minds are altered and the body follows.

If God had intended "his people" to have their bodies with the "result of circumcision"; why wouldn't He have just created that "condition" from the start; God is perfect and He does foresee all. If the "mind" flawed man in that way; so that God had to correct it in Scripture; that just doesn't make any sense to me?
I didn't have any say in such matters when I was born, but my mom did direct the doctor to take care of that. Back to Matthew 1:21 and "his people"; how does altering the natural body that God did give (in His own image), make any of us "more his people"?

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

No , knowledge is not Satan . Adam named all the animals plus we really have no idea of the all knowledge Adam did have before the fall . "knowledge of good and evil"


Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

I always assumed Adam and Eve were "innocents" prior to eating of the forbidden fruit; and any knowledge Adam had before that would have been only what God had Blessed him with.

Please forgive me, but in reading Genesis again before I started this; I had a question pop into my head. Why would God Create a serpent, Bless that serpent with the ability to "speak" so as to tempt Eve; and then turn it loose in His Garden (that He did Create)?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

If that is a question, I guess I understand some of that. But that still doesn't explain how our "mind was altered and the body followed"?

Our bodies follow what our minds tell it to do.
Now that we have the knowledge of good and evil should we regard women as Gods' Temple as He originally created it, or should we view a womans body by fawning over it at a strip club?

If God had intended "his people" to have their bodies with the "result of circumcision"; why wouldn't He have just created that "condition" from the start;

Because Adam wasn't a sinner from the start.

God is perfect and He does foresee all.

This is key to understanding scripture .

If the "mind" flawed man in that way; so that God had to correct it in Scripture; that just doesn't make any sense to me?

A loving Father correcting His children. What don't you understand about having faith in God? Circumcision was a sign, just a visible token of a person who believes in God.

I didn't have any say in such matters when I was born, but my mom did direct the doctor to take care of that. Back to Matthew 1:21 and "his people"; how does altering the natural body that God did give (in His own image), make any of us "more his people"?

It doesn't if you don't really have faith in Him,

For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcisionis made uncircumcision.
Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? Rom.2:25-26

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

A loving Father correcting His children. What don't you understand about having faith in God? Circumcision was a sign, just a visible token of a person who believes in God.

Ok, apparently I either misunderstood you from the beginning; or I just misunderstand.

I do have Faith in God; and no "mere human" should ever question God's Purpose. As for a "visible token of a person who believes in God"; that's an interesting concept. Should the people worship an idol as well, a "visible token"?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

As for a "visible token of a person who believes in God"; that's an interesting concept.

It what scripture teaches,

So Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on a pole. And if a serpent bit anyone, he would look at the bronze serpent and live. Num.21:9 ESV

The serpent symbolized evil, but that's the way sinners viewed Jesus, NOT His Father.

Should the people worship an idol as well, a "visible token"?

No. Hezekiah

broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the people of Israel had made offerings to it (it was called Nehushtan). 2Kin.18:4 ESV

They began worshipping the symbol, not what the symbol signified, which is Jesus enduring flase witness (sin) against Himself, instead of judging sinners. Forgiving us instead of condemning us for sinning against Him. It's no different than partaking of the bread and wine symbolizing Christs' suffering while continuing in sin,

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. [/b{1Cor.11:29 ESV

Not knowing His body (which is His church.)[/B]

 

[hawkman]

Please forgive me, but in reading Genesis again before I started this; I had a question pop into my head. Why would God Create a serpent, Bless that serpent with the ability to "speak" so as to tempt Eve; and then turn it loose in His Garden (that He did Create)?

Trey Smith has a video you might like to see .

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Enlightenedtruth,
I'm wondering if you're enlightened enough to understand that Jesus allowed Himelf to be mistreated the way He was so that sinners would know He meant us no harm.

Do you understand Gods' skin, muscles, tendons etc felt excruciating pain because sinners were abusing Him?

Do you understand that when mankind became aware of sin, we can see that Jesus was sinned against and didn't destroy His attackers. God didn't destroy us. Ok?

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Enlightenedtruth,
I'm wondering if you're enlightened enough to understand that Jesus allowed Himelf to be mistreated the way He was so that sinners would know He meant us no harm.

Do you understand Gods' skin, muscles, tendons etc felt excruciating pain because sinners were abusing Him?

Do you understand that when mankind became aware of sin, we can see that Jesus was sinned against and didn't destroy His attackers. God didn't destroy us. Ok?

I do know that God did not destroy us for our Sin's; but what I know of that isn't "written in the Bible".

Christ was not "abused" by the Sinner's throughout his life; I believe that physical abuse came after the pharisees demanded the Roman's crucify him.

I also think of Matthew 27:46; if Christ's intent was to allow himself to demonstrate anything; why would he cry out; My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? That doesn't sound like a "God" in person trying to show the sinners he meant no harm.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Trey Smith has a video you might like to see .

Thank you for the video. While I cannot claim to know everything; what I do know about the serpent in the Garden, and God's Plan; can only be discussed in the "unorthodox Christian belief's thread". And this thread was more about the Book of Matthew, and understanding "his people"; and my fellow forum members view on that one piece of Scripture.