Matthew 12:40

[Deborah13]

Both. It (that Saturday) was a High Sabbath Day. (in more ways than one).

John 19:31 (NASB) Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day),.​

So we agree that this sabbath was the first day of Unleavened Bread, that was drawing near, like Luke says.
(I realize you believe that it was also the 7th day sabbath.)
​

However, the preparation was taking place on the 14th of the month (Thursday), not for the regular weekly Sabbath (they really didn't need to 'prepare' for a regular weekly Sabbath day), but for the yearly Passover which meant that a Passover Lamb had to be slain precisely on the 15th (a Friday) in the afternoon at 3pm. Which, umm happened. But the point is that the meal and the arrest occurred on what we would call Thursday night. Evidently late enough in the night that Peter, James and John couldn't stay awake while Jesus prayed.

Exodus tells us when the passover lamb is slain, on the 14th, preparation day. This would actually be, in our determining, the evening of the 13th up to the evening of the 14th. Seeing God's days are evening to evening rather than morning to morning. At around 6pm, just after twilight, I ask a Jew what day it is he will tell me it is Saturday the 7th day rather than Friday night.
Exo 12:6 `And it hath become a charge to you, until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole assembly of the company of Israel have slaughtered it between the evenings;

Notice also, The Last Supper occurred evidently well after sunset on what we call Thursday night, yet to a Jew is early Friday morning and consisted of merely eating bread (unleavened Bread) and wine, not the Passover Lamb. The Passover lamb wasn't due to be sacrificed until Friday afternoon (~3pm). They called that first Unleavened Bread meal the Lord's Passover meal yet now we now call it the Lord's Supper.

Also notice what time of the night at the original Passover (back in Egypt) the angel of death slayed the firstborn of Egypt. Umm, midnight. About what time did Jesus get arrested?

They slaughtered the lamb on the 14th, they put the blood and the lintel on the 14th, closed their doors, and ate the lamb after dark, which would now be the 15th, first day of Unleavened Bread, a sabbath.
Exo 12:6 `And it hath become a charge to you, until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole assembly of the company of Israel have slaughtered it between the evenings;
Exo 12:7 and they have taken of the blood, and have put on the two side-posts, and on the lintel over the houses in which they eat it.
Exo 12:8 `And they have eaten the flesh in this night, roast with fire; with unleavened things and bitters they do eat it;
Exo 12:9 ye do not eat of it raw, or boiled at all in water, but roast with fire, its head with its legs, and with its inwards;
Exo 12:10 and ye do not leave of it till morning, and that which is remaining of it till morning with fire ye do burn.
In order for Jesus to be the passover lamb of the Jews, He to had to be killed on the 14th, the day of preparation, before evening. His blood had to be shed on the 14th and applied on the post and the lintel.

Jesus ate the Last Supper with the disciples the evening of the 14th, preparation day and then He was arrested that same evening, tried, and killed that day. He died and was placed in the tomb just before dark fell.
Why do you believe that they didn't eat the passover lamb as well as the unleavened bread?
Luk 22:7 And the day of the unleavened food came, in which it was behoving the passover to be sacrificed,
Luk 22:8 and he sent Peter and John, saying, `Having gone on, prepare to us the passover, that we may eat;'
Luk 22:9 and they said to him, `Where wilt thou that we might prepare?'
Luk 22:10 And he said to them, `Lo, in your entering into the city, there shall meet you a man, bearing a pitcher of water, follow him to the house where he doth go in,
Luk 22:11 and ye shall say to the master of the house, The Teacher saith to thee, Where is the guest-chamber where the passover with my disciples I may eat?
The lambs/goats were sacrificed and roasted on the 14th in preparation.
It seems strange that they would have been doing this even during the night but there were thousands of animals to prepare in Jerusalem for this feast and only the priests, accounting to Moses' Law, could kill them in the ceremonial manner. At least that is my understanding from the Bible and from Jewish writings.

 

[chessman]

So we agree that this sabbath was the first day of Unleavened Bread, that was drawing near, like Luke says.
(I realize you believe that it was also the 7th day sabbath.)​

All Sabbaths occurr(ed) on a Saturday, sure.

Start out with what is plain as day. Jesus rose from the grave at sunrise (6am) on a Sunday. We both agree and no one should disagree with that. I mean that's what all four Gospel accounts say, plainly. Forget about what you think about the Passover and even what you think Matt 12:40 means for a moment (just a moment!). And then tie it all back in with harmony in a minute. But fact 1 is Jesus rose on a Sunday morning, right?

Fact 2, Jesus’ Burial: Again, all four Gospel accounts attest to the fact that Jesus was buried by late in the afternoon (in the evening prior to sunset) on a Friday. Notice already that this Friday burial may not be what some churches say. Frankly, I don't care what people say. The Biblical fact is that Jesus’ dead corpse was buried by late in the evening prior to sunset on a Friday. This even potentially leaves open a ‘chance’ that He actually had died on a previous day (Thursday, Wednesday, Tuesday, whatever), I suppose, if you think Jesus stayed on the cross (dead or alive) for more than 24 hours. But the point (fact 2 of 4) is that all four Gospels clearly tell us that Jesus’ dead corpse was buried by the evening of Friday (the day before the Sabbath).

Mark 15:42-45 (LEB) And when it was already evening, since it was the day of preparation (that is, the day before the Sabbath), Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the council who was also himself looking forward to the kingdom of God, came acting courageously and went in to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. And Pilate was surprised that he was already dead, and summoning the centurion, asked him whether he had died already. And when he learned of it from the centurion, he granted the corpse to Joseph.​

Matthew 27:57-60 (LEB) Now when it was evening, a rich man from Arimathea named Joseph came, who also was a disciple of Jesus himself. This man approached Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate ordered it to be given to him. And Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut in the rock. And he rolled a large stone to the entrance of the tomb and went away.​

Luke 23:50-54 (LEB) And behold, a man named Joseph, ... approached Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. And he took it down and wrapped it in a linen cloth and placed him in a tomb cut into the rock where no one had ever been placed. And it was the day of preparation, and the Sabbath was drawing near.​

Okay, so from fact 1 and fact 2 we know that Jesus’ corpse was placed into the tomb on Friday and lay buried in a tomb (resting) all night and all day on the Saturday Sabbath (i.e. the full Sabbath starting at sundown extending to sunrise), as any good Jew would do in fulfillment of the Scriptures. So when did Jesus die? Well already can surmise that Jesus most likely died on that Friday too from Mark's account of Pilate being surprised that He was dead already. In time for them to take the corpse down and put it in the tomb. But for now, can we just agree to fact 1 (Jesus rose on Sunday morning) and fact 2 (Jesus corpse was placed in the tomb on Friday evening)? It is true that Friday was also The Day of Preparation, but for now it should be clear that at least He was buried on a Friday, right? If not, why not?

I mean, that's what the Gospels say happened so far, right?

 

[rstrats]

chessman,
re: "As for whether a partial day and/or a partial night counts as a whole day/night, of course it does."

I agree, but that is not my concern for the purpose of this topic.



re: "Or if I said I watched basketball last night, you don't just assume I meant I watched basketball from sunset to sunrise."

No; but I would expect that you watched basketball during at least of part of last night.



re: "Why would you be searching for such a usage to counter the Scriptures recognized by 'sixth day crucifixion folks'?"

Those who say that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week frequently try to get around Matthew 12:40 by saying that the verse is using common Jewish idiomatic language. I am simply wondering what the 6th day of the week crucifixion adherents are basing their "common Jewish idiomatic language" assertion on? If it is "common" I should think that there would have to be examples of such usage in order to make the assertion that it is common.



re: "I mean if 3 days and 3 nights means what it says (and I submit to you that it does), does not Luke’s (and all of the other three Gospel writers) phrases also mean what they say? And that is that Jesus was crucified and died and was buried on the sixth day..."

I am not aware of any scripture that says that.



re: "Do you believe that Jesus was crucified and died on another day besides the sixth day of the week...?

I do.



re: " And if so, what is your evidence for that?"

The Messiah said that 3 nights would be involved. There are only 2 nights involved with a 6th day death/first day resurrection. Also, Luke 24:21 indicates that the crucifixion could not have taken place any later than the 5th day of the week.



re: "What about His resurrection, don't you believe that He rose early on...(the first day)..."

I think that a first day of the week resurrection is the most likely case.



re: ",,, just as the Gospel writers tell us..."

Actually, only one gospel writer places the resurrection on the first of the week.

 

[chessman]

I think that a first day of the week resurrection is the most likely case.
…
Actually, only one gospel writer places the resurrection on the first of the week.

I appreciate you answering my questions and interacting on this topic.
It's a very interesting, OP topic. Especially given Easter's approach.
But I am afraid that for either of us to learn the Truth (capital T, Truth) then our basis for answers and fact determination must be based on the actual Biblical facts. Agreed?
For example, you say that only one Gospel writer places the resurrection on the first of the week. That’s not true, thus it’s not Truth.
Ask yourself; who told you that??? It’s incorrect. Can you be convinced of the Truth on this one fact?
Biblical fact #1 is that all four Gospel writers tell us what day of the week (even the time of day) Jesus rose from the grave:

Matt 28:1-4 (LEB) at the dawning on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to view the tomb. 2 And behold, there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came up and rolled away the stone and sat down on it. 3 Now his appearance was like lightning and his clothing white as snow. 4 And the guards trembled from the fear of him and became like dead men.
Mark 16:2 (LEB) And very early in the morning on the first day of the week they came to the tomb after the sun had risen.
Luke 24:1-3 (LEB) Now on the first day of the week, at very early dawn, they came back to the tomb bringing the fragrant spices which they had prepared. 2 And they found the stone had been rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they went in, they did not find the body.
John 20:1 (LEB) Now on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw the stone had been taken away from the tomb.​

I would be glad to present to you 3 or 4 more Biblical facts that harmonize all the Scriptures (even Matt 12:40) if you are willing to follow along. I'm sure I could learn things from your perspective on this as well. But can you be convinced of fact #1???

Do you now see that what you stated, “only one gospel…” is incorrect?

 

[rstrats]

chessman,
re: "...for either of us to learn the Truth (capital T, Truth) then our basis for answers and fact determination must be based on the actual Biblical facts. Agreed?"

Yes.



re: "you say that only one Gospel writer places the resurrection on the first of the week. That’s not true, thus it’s not Truth. Ask yourself; who told you that??? It’s incorrect."

I told myself 'that' from reading the gospels. Only Mark 16:9, as it is translated in the KJV and similar translations, says that the resurrection took place on the first of the week.



re: "Biblical fact #1 is that all four Gospel writers tell us what day of the week (even the time of day) Jesus rose from the grave...Matt 28:1-4...Mark 16:2...Luke 24:1-3...John 20:1..."

None of those scriptures say when the resurrection actually occurred. They only say that the women came to the tomb on the first of the week and found it to be empty. They don't say when it became empty.

 

[chessman]

Only Mark 16:9, as it is translated in the KJV and similar translations, says that the resurrection took place on the first of the week

Again, that is incorrect. I posted a perfectly acceptable literal translation from all four Gospels of the account. Each mentions Jesus was resurrected at dawn or early on the first day of the week. Do you only read Scripture one verse at a time? That's because it's in the Greek manuscripts that way. Even in the KJV Matthew records that Jesus was resurrected on the first day of the week.

1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. jOye; ADV de; CONJ sabbavtwn, N-GPN th'/ T-DSF ejpifwskouvsh/ V-PAP-DSF eij? PREP mivan N-ASF sabbavtwn​

You didn't say earlier that it was only in the KJV translation that the resurrection occurred at sunrise (dawn). Are you KJV only?

None of those scriptures say when the resurrection actually occurred.

yes they do. Re-Look at Matthew's account more closely, in the KJV if you prefer or insist:

Matthew 28:1-5 (KJV)
28 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.​

At dawn on the first day of the week, the stone was rolled back and the guards were still there. Are you suggesting that Jesus came out of the tomb prior to the stone being rolled away? If so, what evidence do you have for that?

Also, Jesus himself said that He would rise on the Third Day, numerous times both before and after He did so.

Matthew 16:21 (LEB) From that time on Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised on the third day​

What day of the week do you think The Third Day is referenceing, if it's not Sunday; Saturday?

 

[Deborah13]

All Sabbaths occurr(ed) on a Saturday, sure.

?
The 15th of the month does not always fall on a Saturday, 7th day.

Start out with what is plain as day. Jesus rose from the grave at sunrise (6am) on a Sunday. We both agree and no one should disagree with that. I mean that's what all four Gospel accounts say, plainly. Forget about what you think about the Passover and even what you think Matt 12:40 means for a moment (just a moment!). And then tie it all back in with harmony in a minute. But fact 1 is Jesus rose on a Sunday morning, right?

I agree that Jesus rose on the 1st day of the week, the first of the sabbaths of Pentecost.
Joh 20:1 And on the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene doth come early (there being yet darkness) to the tomb, and she seeth the stone having been taken away out of the tomb,
However, I do not agree that He rose at sunrise because this scripture also says that it was still dark and the stone was taken away.

Fact 2, Jesus’ Burial: Again, all four Gospel accounts attest to the fact that Jesus was buried by late in the afternoon (in the evening prior to sunset) on a Friday.
Notice already that this Friday burial may not be what some churches say. Frankly, I don't care what people say. The Biblical fact is that Jesus’ dead corpse was buried by late in the evening prior to sunset on a Friday. This even potentially leaves open a ‘chance’ that He actually had died on a previous day (Thursday, Wednesday, Tuesday, whatever), I suppose, if you think Jesus stayed on the cross (dead or alive) for more than 24 hours. But the point (fact 2 of 4) is that all four Gospels clearly tell us that Jesus’ dead corpse was buried by the evening of Friday (the day before the Sabbath).

We have already agreed that the first day of Unleavened Bread, the 15th, is a sabbath and it doesn't always fall on a Saturday, the 7th day sabbath. And we agreed that the day of preparation was the 14th. which is not a sabbath.
Luk 23:52 he, having gone near to Pilate, asked the body of Jesus,
Luk 23:53 and having taken it down, he wrapped it in fine linen, and placed it in a tomb hewn out, where no one was yet laid.
Luk 23:54 And the day was a preparation, and sabbath was approaching,

Okay, so from fact 1 and fact 2 we know that Jesus’ corpse was placed into the tomb on Friday and lay buried in a tomb (resting) all night and all day on the Saturday Sabbath (i.e. the full Sabbath starting at sundown extending to sunrise), as any good Jew would do in fulfillment of the Scriptures. So when did Jesus die? Well already can surmise that Jesus most likely died on that Friday too from Mark's account of Pilate being surprised that He was dead already. In time for them to take the corpse down and put it in the tomb. But for now, can we just agree to fact 1 (Jesus rose on Sunday morning) and fact 2 (Jesus corpse was placed in the tomb on Friday evening)? It is true that Friday was also The Day of Preparation, but for now it should be clear that at least He was buried on a Friday, right? If not, why not?I mean, that's what the Gospels say happened so far, right?

We agree on fact 1, that He rose on the first day of the week, the first of the sabbaths of Pentecost.
We do not agree on your fact 2 that the scriptures say that He died and was buried on a Friday.
What is clear for the scriptures posted.
1)He died on preparation day for the feast of Unleavened Bread, which is a sabbath.
2)He was laid in the tomb on the same day, approx. at twilight before the Unleavened Bread sabbath began.
Which scripture says that the day of preparation was a Friday or the the sabbath of Unleavened Bread fell on Saturday?

 

[Deborah13]

None of those scriptures say when the resurrection actually occurred. They only say that the women came to the tomb on the first of the week and found it to be empty. They don't say when it became empty.

I agree, you are quite right that it doesn't say when it became empty other than it was the third day, still dark, and the 'first day of the sabbathes", which always fell on the morrow after the 7th day sabbath during the counting of weeks for Pentecost.
Lev.23:15-21.
This first morrow of the sabbath, in the counting of sabbaths, when Jesus rose, was the day the 'omar' the firstfruits of the barley harvest were lifted up as a thank offering and is a sabbath. I find it appropriate that this would be the day that He became the firstfruits of the harvest of many.
1Co 15:20 And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead--the first-fruits of those sleeping he became,

 

[chessman]

I agree that Jesus rose on the 1st day of the week, the first of the sabbaths of Pentecost.
Joh 20:1 And on the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene…

I don’t understand your belief about when Jesus rose??? The first day of the week has never been and will never be a Sabbath day. The First day is a Sunday and the Sabbath is a Saturday, period. Thus the reason Mary technically left her house on the Sabbath (very late on the Sabbath just prior to sunrise) in order reach the tomb very early on the first day (a Sunday morning at sunrise). It seems to me the reason all the modern translations say “on the first day of the week”, including the KJV, is that they understand the Greek texts better than you or I and understand it’s written to mean Mary left on the Sabbath and arrived just as Jesus rose at sunrise on the first day of the week (a Sunday).
I’m afraid we don’t agree on fact 1 really, if you think Jesus was raised on a Sabbath day, yet it was the first day of the week. Sorry.

I can’t just take what YLT seems to indicate (though even it has Jesus rising on the first day) over and above the other translations and other Gospels to mean Jesus rose on a Sabbath day. But I certainly believe Mary left on a Sabbath day (very, very late in the Jewish day while it was still dark).

I also don't believer Jesus did anything but rest on the Sabbath, thus He didn't rise on the Sabbath.

However, I do not agree that He rose at sunrise because this scripture also says that it was still dark and the stone was taken away

John tells us when Mary left (at dark on the Sabbath), he doesn’t say in that verse what time the stone was rolled away though. But other texts do. Also look at Matthew's account in the YLT:

Matthew 28 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

28 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,​

I can explain why Matthew would say a Sabbath would follow a Sabbath, but the point is, Mary left very late on a Sabbath (one of two) just prior to dawn.

But look at what else Matthew says happened after she left yet before she arrived:

a messenger of the Lord, having come down out of heaven, having come, did roll away the stone
from the door​

It seems to me Jesus rose precisely at sunrise for as she was traveling there, the stone was removed and by the time she get's there, there is enough light for her to see inside the tomb.

 

[rstrats]

chessman,
re: "Again, that is incorrect...Even in the KJV Matthew records that Jesus was resurrected on the first day of the week."

And again, that is incorrect. Nowhere does Matthew say that the resurrection took place on the first day of the week.



re: "You didn't say earlier that it was only in the KJV translation that the resurrection occurred at sunrise (dawn).

And I'm still not saying it.



re: "At dawn on the first day of the week, the stone was rolled back and the guards were still there. Are you suggesting that Jesus came out of the tomb prior to the stone being rolled away?"

No. He may have or He may not have. Scripture doesn't say. Perhaps the stone was not rolled away from the tomb so Jesus could get out. He was able to appear in a locked room (John 20:19) in his resurrected body. Perhaps the stone was rolled away so that everyone could see that he had risen.



re: "Are you KJV only?"

No.


re: "What day of the week do you think The Third Day is referenceing..."

As I told you in post #43, I think that a first day of the week resurrection is the most likely case. However, there are those who make a case for a seventh day of the week resurrection.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Nowhere in my bible says Jesus arose Sunday, but if I had to believe it was Sunday, it would be the split moment it started, which is really Saturday night at sundown between the days (about the same time he was buried 72 hours earlier).

Here's what Mark 16:9 says

Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Punctuation is the key. I read it as when Jesus arose, very early on the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, etc. The rest of the gospels basically say when the women arrived at the tomb, just before or at sunrise apparently, which is early on the first day of the week. If he appeared to them, then he was already arisen. In other words, the mention of Sunday is merely in reference to the actions of the women, not necessarily indicative as to when he arose.

In addition, this passage in Mark was added later, and even mainline bible commentators say not to base any doctrine off of it by itself.

Sunday was the first day he was arisen, and then ascending to the Father (as Unleavened Bread Sabbath day was the first day he was in the tomb). He died Nisan 14 to fulfil Passover. He was interred as Unleavened bread started. Look on any calendar. If the 1st day is the 15th then the third is the 17th and is completed at the end of the day, hence the 18th (Sunday) started. Or another way to put it, 3 days after the 15th is the 18th (count on any calendar), so by the time Sunday started he had to be risen to fulfil the Firstfruits day representing his new life. If he was dead any part of the day, then that feast would not be fulfilled.

 

[rstrats]

chessman,
re: "Thus the reason Mary technically left her house on the Sabbath (very late on the Sabbath just prior to sunrise)..."
How could that be? Just prior to sunrise would be at least 12 hours away from "very late on the Sabbath'.

 

[chessman]

chessman,
re: "Thus the reason Mary technically left her house on the Sabbath (very late on the Sabbath just prior to sunrise)..."
How could that be? Just prior to sunrise would be at least 12 hours away from "very late on the Sabbath'.

Not according to the Torah (Scriptures)! The reason the Sabbath day begins at sunset is because that's how God told them to observe it. Somwhere along the line, they changed it. Just as they did the Passover days. Which is why at that time, the Saducees and the Pharisees couldn't agree on the day to sacrifice a lamb.
According to some Jewish teachers, night and morning begin with sunset and sunrise respectively. For that is how the Torah describes it: “And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.”

Jesus, settled the matter Biblically according to the Scriptures.

He was slain at exactly the right time of day, week, month and year to fullfill the Scriptures.

 

[brother Paul]

Rstrats...what is your point (or motive) the day He died was day one and He rose on the third day...do the math....

Why do you think it is important that someone from near the time or later need write in a book "This or that IS idiomatic or a Hebraism" whether one has done this or not does not make it so or not so....Has anyone ever written in a book that "step on it" is idiomatic to Americans? And even if somewhere someone has said it is not (or that it is), what difference does that make...it still is and always will be....

It is like when Jesus said to Nathaniel "I saw you when you were under the fig tree"! Every Rabbinical scholar knows Jesus was claiming He knew of Nathaniel (and probably that he would eventually come to Him) since he was a baby....(the elder women would watch the babes under the shade of a tree while the moms were gleaning or working the fields)....what does it matter or prove whether or not someone wrote this in a book?

The Jewish Encyclopedia states that any part of day was considered by ancient Hebrews to be the whole of the day, just as if I said to you "remember the day we went to the ball game?" Obviously to us we know it was not a full 24 hour period, so it was to the Hebrew hearer in Jesus day (oops! I did it again....lol).

Your friend

Paul

 

[reba]

a reminder guys

Wow, talk about resurrecting an old thread! Well, could be interesting since we have lots of new members since this thread was started.

Just a word of caution, we have put new guidelines in place for posting in this forum, and they can be read here. These guidelines apply to new posts in old threads as well. Please take a minute to read and understand them before posting. Thanks.

Obadiah

Opps the link didnt copy...http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...-in-the-apologetics-and-theology-forum.57557/

 

[rstrats]

brother Paul,
re: "Rstrats...what is your point (or motive)"

I say what in post #43. Those who say that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week frequently try to get around Matthew 12:40 by saying that the verse is using common Jewish idiomatic language. I am simply wondering what the 6th day of the week crucifixion adherents are basing their "common Jewish idiomatic language" assertion on? If it is "common" I should think that there would have to be examples of such usage in order to make the assertion that it is common.



re: "the day He died was day one and He rose on the third day...do the math...."

And the math only works with a crucifixion that couldn't have occurred any later than the 5th day of the week.



re: "The Jewish Encyclopedia states that any part of day was considered by ancient Hebrews to be the whole of the day, just as if I said to you 'remember the day we went to the ball game?'"

But what if you said "remember the day and night we went to the ball game?"

 

[brother Paul]

And the math only works with a crucifixion that couldn't have occurred any later than the 5th day of the week.

True....I was commenting on the request for writings....

 

[rstrats]

brother Paul.
re: "True....I was commenting on the request for writings...."

OK, no problem. Someone new looking in may know of some writing.

 

[JohnD]

The crucifixion happened on a Thursday (5th day of the week) for the men on the road to Emmaus to have claimed on Sunday (the 8th / 1st day) "this is the third day since these things took place." Take into account the difference between a Hebrew day (sunset to sunset) and a modern day (midnight to midnight).

Luke 24:18–21 (AV)
18And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
19And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
20And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
21But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

The prophecies that say three days and three nights (Matthew 12:39-40) also say on the third day he will rise (Luke 24:7).

 

[Deborah13]

I don’t understand your belief about when Jesus rose??? The first day of the week has never been and will never be a Sabbath day.

The 7th day was/is on Saturday. But there were many other sabbathes that are not on the 7th day.
Joh 20:1 And on the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene doth come early (there being yet darkness) to the tomb, and she seeth the stone having been taken away out of the tomb,
On the first day of the sabbaths IS the first Sunday after the day of Unleavened Bread. It is the first sabbathes of the seven sabbathes of the counting of the Omar to the day of Pentecost. You know that there is a 50 day count to Pentecost.

The First day is a Sunday and the Sabbath is a Saturday, period. Thus the reason Mary technically left her house on the Sabbath (very late on the Sabbath just prior to sunrise) in order reach the tomb very early on the first day (a Sunday morning at sunrise).

Yes Sunday is the first day of the week and the 7th day sabbath is Saturday. Mary left her house before daylight on the first day. Which is technically Saturday night after dark. The 7th day sabbath ended at dark on Saturday night.
Evening and morning was God's first day so His 7th day was evening and morning. So the next Sunday is also evening and morning.

It seems to me the reason all the modern translations say “on the first day of the week”, including the KJV, is that they understand the Greek texts better than you or I and understand it’s written to mean Mary left on the Sabbath and arrived just as Jesus rose at sunrise on the first day of the week (a Sunday).
I’m afraid we don’t agree on fact 1 really, if you think Jesus was raised on a Sabbath day, yet it was the first day of the week. Sorry.

I don't think Jesus rose on the 7th day sabbath and that is not what Young's translation says either.

John tells us when Mary left (at dark on the Sabbath), he doesn’t say in that verse what time the stone was rolled away though. But other texts do. Also look at Matthew's account in the YLT:

Matthew 28 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
28 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,I can explain why Matthew would say a Sabbath would follow a Sabbath, but the point is, Mary left very late on a Sabbath (one of two) just prior to dawn.

But look at what else Matthew says happened after she left yet before she arrived:

a messenger of the Lord, having come down out of heaven, having come, did roll away the stone
from the doorIt seems to me Jesus rose precisely at sunrise for as she was traveling there, the stone was removed and by the time she get's there, there is enough light for her to see inside the tomb.

The angel rolled away the stone, the tough Roman guards faint dead away, and the angel tells the woman...
Mat 28:5 And the messenger answering said to the women, `Fear not ye, for I have known that Jesus, who hath been crucified, ye seek;
Mat 28:6 he is not here, for he rose, as he said; come, see the place where the Lord was lying;
He had already risen at some point on the 1st day of the week, which start Saturday night at dark.