Jesusfreak97
Member
Ok so I have been looking at this and I just want your thoughts. So I dunno discuss or something. lol
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Bible Study Matthew 5,6, and 7 and the law of Moses and the ten commandments
- Thread starter Jesusfreak97
- Start date
Gary
Member
What are your thoughts regarding chapters 5,6 and 7 of Matthew? Any questions?
What are your questions about the law and the commandments?
.
To all those who think that all the laws have been fulfilled in Christ you are very wrong as below are the laws that are written upon our heart and can only be fulfilled when Christ returns and makes an end to sin by throwing it into the lake of fire with that of the beast and the false prophets. The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices. Someone please show me in scripture where Jesus has fulfilled all the laws, because in Matthew 22:35-40 and Matthew 5:17, 18 Jesus does not say that he has already fulfilled all of them, but that love was the greatest of them all.
There are laws that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws keep us in line with the will of God that we present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow the light of Christ shine in us and through us as a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.
Matthew 22:
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Matthew 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
There are laws that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws keep us in line with the will of God that we present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow the light of Christ shine in us and through us as a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.
Matthew 22:
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Matthew 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
And he said unto them, These are the words which Ispake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled , which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luke 24:44
JLB
H
His_nee (Jeff)
Guest
good. the prophecies were fulfilled, every one of them to date. in and by Christ Jesus concerning all pertaining to Him.
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that is exactly as would be expected, if God said it would happen, and how, then it should, and did.
..
now go watch an apple fall from the tree. it still falls straight down(unless very windy day), and hits the ground.
..
in other words, the law of gravity did not change.
..
likewise, "thou shalt have no other gods". this too did not change, and never will even when all the universe and elements are burned up in the final conflagration written about in God's Word.
..
likewise, "do not take the Name of God in vain".
..
anyway, it is simple, as God designed and planned it all.
..
or did I miss the point? i was just skimming through... .
..
that is exactly as would be expected, if God said it would happen, and how, then it should, and did.
..
now go watch an apple fall from the tree. it still falls straight down(unless very windy day), and hits the ground.
..
in other words, the law of gravity did not change.
..
likewise, "thou shalt have no other gods". this too did not change, and never will even when all the universe and elements are burned up in the final conflagration written about in God's Word.
..
likewise, "do not take the Name of God in vain".
..
anyway, it is simple, as God designed and planned it all.
..
or did I miss the point? i was just skimming through... .
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us (not by us), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us (not by us), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Deborah13
Member
What law didn't Jesus fulfill?
H
His_nee (Jeff)
Guest
"unless you become like infants, you can never see the kingdom of heaven." (i.e. trust Yhwh Abba completely)....
then, take a season to look up the Hebrew meaning if that is what is needed. not just the meaning of the words, but the meanings and the ways of life - a big circle of understanding the whole, not a 'western' straight line of definition.
i love learning little by little the hebrew , as most all things become clear and simple then, like the topic here for specific example.
but most people reading have been brought up in a mix of 'western' thought and a long (and terrible) history of 'greek' influence, so learning God's way , learning what the Hebrews meant and how they lived is sometimes at the very least awkward.
no, i don't know it all by any means, but i thank God every day, all the time, now and for decades past and future, God willing, for what He has shown me, what He has revealed that no man might have, as I sought HIM with all my heart and soul and mind and all that is within me. (yes, HE, God, requires complete devotion to Himself in so many ways, as shown all through Scripture.)
anyhow, to keep it short for now, look up some Hebrew sites if you have time, God Willing, and enjoy the search in Christ Jesus for understanding Truth. (what you understand today may be fine, and then will be verified after testing. if in anything there is a difference in what God says and what we understand, HE is the One to make this known, and He is Delighted to do so for His children in Christ Jesus).
oh, I know this looks like a bit of talking in circles, but no worries. the Hebrew way of thought is very much 'in circles' , i.e. perspectives from many angles and approaches including all pertinent as God reveals it.
specifically, Jesus fulfilled all that He was to fulfill.
this is true.
Jesus also said that no part of the Law would pass away, even unto the end of the earth; not even one little part.
this is true.
it is impossible in the united states, (and elsewhere), for people to grasp this, that BOTH are true (ALL Scripture is true, but man has sure made a mess of things, eh!) ,
until or if they learn what is meant.
see, really simple.
then, take a season to look up the Hebrew meaning if that is what is needed. not just the meaning of the words, but the meanings and the ways of life - a big circle of understanding the whole, not a 'western' straight line of definition.
i love learning little by little the hebrew , as most all things become clear and simple then, like the topic here for specific example.
but most people reading have been brought up in a mix of 'western' thought and a long (and terrible) history of 'greek' influence, so learning God's way , learning what the Hebrews meant and how they lived is sometimes at the very least awkward.
no, i don't know it all by any means, but i thank God every day, all the time, now and for decades past and future, God willing, for what He has shown me, what He has revealed that no man might have, as I sought HIM with all my heart and soul and mind and all that is within me. (yes, HE, God, requires complete devotion to Himself in so many ways, as shown all through Scripture.)
anyhow, to keep it short for now, look up some Hebrew sites if you have time, God Willing, and enjoy the search in Christ Jesus for understanding Truth. (what you understand today may be fine, and then will be verified after testing. if in anything there is a difference in what God says and what we understand, HE is the One to make this known, and He is Delighted to do so for His children in Christ Jesus).
oh, I know this looks like a bit of talking in circles, but no worries. the Hebrew way of thought is very much 'in circles' , i.e. perspectives from many angles and approaches including all pertinent as God reveals it.
specifically, Jesus fulfilled all that He was to fulfill.
this is true.
Jesus also said that no part of the Law would pass away, even unto the end of the earth; not even one little part.
this is true.
it is impossible in the united states, (and elsewhere), for people to grasp this, that BOTH are true (ALL Scripture is true, but man has sure made a mess of things, eh!) ,
until or if they learn what is meant.
see, really simple.
Jesus fulfilled that of the temple and sacrifices, but yet the moral laws can not be fulfilled, but only followed until that time of Christ returns as then all will be fulfilled as we will no longer need these laws anymore. The greatest commandment is love, Gods will is love and if we are truly walking in that love we will follow through on those moral laws as instruction given by God how to follow them. Heaven and earth has not passed away yet and nothing has passed from the moral laws until Jesus fulfills those parts when he returns as then we will no longer need those laws.
Matthew 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Last edited:
He fulfilled the law and it has passed away
So you are saying we as being in Christ no longer have to obey Gods instructions concerning our conduct within the moral laws as these laws are done away with as you said Jesus has already fulfilled them? How did Jesus fulfill that of all the moral laws as his death and resurrection only fulfilled that of the temple and sacrifices.
Thats not at all what I'm saying, that is you continuing to presume that you know what I mean.
The Law of God was from the beginning and was kept by Abraham 430 years before the law of Moses was added.
because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." Genesis 26:5
The whole purpose for the law of Moses being added, was that the covenant children had transgressed the covenant precepts and laws and commandments long before Moses was born..
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19
The Seed has come and the purpose for the law being added has been fulfilled.
The New Covenant is where God Himself is in you and writes His Law in your mind and in your heart, and teaches you directly.
The Law of Moses has vanished away, what remains is the Law of God that was from the beginning, that Abraham walked in and obeyed, as he was taught directly by God.
JLB
Deborah13
Member
Gods will has always been that of love from the very beginning of creation and Jesus only said it was the first and great commandment in all the 613 laws. Jesus fulfilled that of the temple and sacrificial laws as being a final sacrifice for all men that we can now be set free from the curse of law and reconciled back to God by His grace. It's by Gods will of love that we conduct ourselves in the manner of love while dealing with the moral laws that are still in effect.
Mat 22:34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
Mat 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Matthew 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Note: till heaven and earth pass away. There are still laws we must abide by as they are not done away with, but to abide in love always no matter what or who tries to come against you.
Deborah13
Member
In your opinion, Did Jesus fulfill the law of love?
That is all I am asking. I not asking if the law is still in effect or anything else, or about jot and tittles, just this one question. I understand what you are saying about these other things, I think. Then again maybe not and so I ask that I may ask further questions in another post. But this one is the main one for me to understand first.
Gary
Member
John 15
13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.
14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
Romans 5
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
John 10
11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
1 John 3
16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
Deborah13
Member
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
1a) I did not come to destroy the law
b) I did come to fulfill the law
2a) I did not come to destroy the prophets
b) I did come to fulfill the prophets
G2647 destroy - to loosen down
G4137 fulfill - to make replete - root G4134 - complete - G4130 - accomplish
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
If Jesus broke either one of these two commandments in any way He was not sinless. Therefore, He was not a perfect sacrifice for sin.
If Jesus did not break either one of these commandments then He was sinless. Therefore, He was the perfect sacrifice for sin.
If Jesus was not the fulfillment of the law - Torah
If Jesus was not the fulfillment of the prophets
then -
He was a failure. He was a liar, a fake, and a fraud. And there was/is no victory at the cross.
I say that Jesus never broke either one of the commandments to love. He loved the Father perfectly.
He loved His neighbor (friends and enemies) perfectly.
Therefore, He fulfilled and is the fulfillment of all law and all prophecy about the Messiah.
Therefore, He was the perfect sacrifice for all mankind.
The scriptures that Gary posted are the scriptural witnesses to His perfect love.
Love can only be fulfilled within oneself. If we are in Christ and he in us then we will understand the greatest commandment of love. Christ did not fulfill a commandment that states to love, but only made a proclamation of which was the greatest commandment in the law. To fulfill something means to make an end to or accomplish that that needed to be finished. How did Jesus fulfill love? Is love finished or do we continue in it?
Deborah13
Member
If Jesus didn't do it, then by all means you are correct, you must do it for yourself.
Can you walk in perfect love?