megachurches?

[Christ_empowered]

I'm not a fan. Not that I'm Holier than Thou, just...

they seem to get too big, and they seem to create mega-problems, too. Here locally, they canned 1 minister of a multi-site megachurch...when they analyzed the books, he left the place 10s of million$ in debt. true story. And that's just -1- example...

another semi-local megachurch pastor put his wife in a private mental hospital. she'd been cheating and being crazy, so they turned to the psychiatrists for cover, I guess. Oh, wait...."she needs treatment." OK...

on and on it goes. That one dude...Hybels, was it?...was once an advisor to Clinton on spirituality...now it turns out he was engaged in serious sexual immorality, too.

I just...I think the NT provides some pretty clear outlines for how a church should operate, and I don't think megachurches -can- fit the bill, because they're really not meant to, not really. Even if they hit the sound doctrine...is the minister going to see you in the hospital? nope. the local megachurch minister was pretty adamant about -not- visiting the sick, for his own personal reasons, plus you know...wasn't in his job description, I guess.

I dunno. Not that small or medium sized churches are at all immune to the same sorts of problems--here, locally, all of a sudden pastors are on the news left and right, mostly for sexual sins (and crimes)--but I think the megachurch format invites trouble, on a much larger scale.

But I'm -not- trying to act as if I'm an expert or anything. These are just my observations, and I could be wrong. Or...making a lot of assumptions about megachurches -as a whole- based on some "bad apples," etc.

So....what do y'all think? Any experiences, good or bad or inbetween? Thanks.

 

[ezra]

not a fan of mega churches they have lots spiritual problems fighting among the staff

 

[JohnDB]

I've been to one.
Great library! I took advantage of it.
The "small group" classes I attended were where I made connections with others.

But there was an attitude there that I couldn't get my head around...so I found a smaller church that was a lot closer.

But when the congregation would sing...it was awesome. I could close my eyes and imagine I was in heaven. 5,000+ voices in unison can't be reproduced adequately in a recording...it has to be all around you.

 

[Corn Pop]

I guess the music would be great as everyone sings in harmony to all there gods.

 

[for_his_glory]

Went to John Hagee's church and he won't even associated with his congregation and hires body guards to protect him everywhere he goes.

Worked in Benny Hinn's ministry one weekend and he himself is his own god and not even a good actor when it comes to what I call his zapping people that only he chooses to come on stage for prayer. Not much preaching comes out of his mouth if any at all.

I even got told to not pray for this lady that the Lord told me to go over and pray for her. They weren't even in the auditorium as this girl that was in the wheelchair was mentally challenged and was screaming and while I was praying for her she calmed down and I believe if not interrupted she could have received her healing. Her mother was upset with the person that came over and told me to stop praying as that was Benny's job to do.

Mega church Pastors wants the flock for their monetary giving that lines their pockets, but not the responsibility to Shepard the flock.

This is God's true mega church:
James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

 

[Corn Pop]

Went to John Hagee's church and he won't even associated with his congregation and hires body guards to protect him everywhere he goes.

Some so called important people are extremely self centered like politicians, celebraties, pastors. They obviously only care about themselves as long as they have protection and a wall around them they don't care if anyone else does.

 

[for_his_glory]

Some so called important people are extremely self centered like politicians, celebraties, pastors. They obviously only care about themselves as long as they have protection and a wall around them they don't care if anyone else does.

Come to my church, line my pockets with the widows mite, but please do not try to speak with me as I don't want to be bothered

 

[Corn Pop]

Come to my church, line my pockets with the widows mite, but please do not try to speak with me as I don't want to be bothered

Come on my ship as i am the Captain, but if it starts to sink i will save myself first.

 

[Truthfrees]

i've been to mega churches and mega ministries - there is a lot of good there just as smaller or medium churches have a lot of good - is there bad in all of them? - i suppose but why are we looking at that? - Philippians 4:8 - do we want to magnify what the devil is doing or do we want to MAGNIFY what the LORD is doing?

if we speak against others we are doing our own lives a deep disservice - there is so much to thank God for and the more we thank and praise God for every good thing we see the more we grow in Him and in His power - Philippians 4:8

when we look bitterly at someone else we are chewing on a bitter root - that bitter root will go down into our own being and defile us - short circuit us in our own advancement - Hebrews 12:15

if we do not like someone or some ministry i highly recommend that we turn away and onto something we do like - digest all that is lovely pure noble praiseworthy - fill up our heart eyes ears thoughts with these things and i GUARANTEE that we will prosper in God and be saturated in His joy - Philippians 4:8

the more time we spend looking at and rehashing all that is NOT praiseworthy noble pure excellent the more we poison ourselves and our lives - and we will defile many - Hebrews 12:15

 

[Corn Pop]

i've been to mega churches and mega ministries - there is a lot of good there just as smaller or medium churches have a lot of good - is there bad in all of them? - i suppose but why are we looking at that? - Philippians 4:8 - do we want to magnify what the devil is doing or do we want to MAGNIFY what the LORD is doing?

if we speak against others we are doing our own lives a deep disservice - there is so much to thank God for and the more we thank and praise God for every good thing we see the more we grow in Him and in His power - Philippians 4:8

when we look bitterly at someone else we are chewing on a bitter root - that bitter root will go down into our own being and defile us - short circuit us in our own advancement - Hebrews 12:15

if we do not like someone or some ministry i highly recommend that we turn away and onto something we do like - digest all that is lovely pure noble praiseworthy - fill up our heart eyes ears thoughts with these things and i GUARANTEE that we will prosper in God and be saturated in His joy - Philippians 4:8

the more time we spend looking at and rehashing all that is NOT praiseworthy noble pure excellent the more we poison ourselves and our lives - and we will defile many - Hebrews 12:15

When it comes to the church people should focus on the positive, but we also have a God given right to call out crookedness and expose it, as did the Apostle Paul. If a false gospel is being preached and misleading people do you just walk away or expose it, and churches that don't even preach the gospel.

I have been called out on this site a few times and rebuked for false teachings and was corrected, so I accepted I was wrong and way off context and learnt from it.

 

[Truthfrees]

When it comes to the church people should focus on the positive, but we also have a God given right to call out crookedness and expose it, as did the Apostle Paul. If a false gospel is being preached and misleading people do you just walk away or expose it, and churches that don't even preach the gospel.

I have been called out on this site a few times and rebuked for false teachings and was corrected, so I accepted I was wrong and way off context and learnt from it.

that is the point - we are to speak to the person about their beliefs in person to their face

 

[for_his_glory]

Since the subject of exposing came up I thought I would share what Paul wrote about it.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Titus 1: 10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. 12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Is It Right for a Christian to Expose False Prophets and False Teaching ? (by Damon Whitsell)

SOURCE: It Is Right To Practice Biblical JudgmentOne of the most misused verses in the Bible is, “Judge not, that ye be not judged” (Matt. 7: 1). Every Scripture verse should be read in its contex…

shepherdguardian.wordpress.com

It Is Right To Name Names
Many mistakenly believe that it is wrong to expose error and to name the guilty teachers; but they are wrong according to the Bible.

Paul named Peter publicly. Peter was guilty of unscriptural practice. “But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed , But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of the Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?” (Gal. 2:11-14). T

Paul named Demas for loving the world. “For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world” (II Tim. 4:10). Those who forsake the cause of Christ for worldly living and pleasures should be named and exposed.

Paul named Alexander the coppersmith. “Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil. the Lord reward him “according to his works: Of whom be thou ware also, for he hath greatly withstood our words ” (II Tim. 4:14-15). It is clear that this is not a personality problem, but a doctrinal problem. Alexander had withstood the words and doctrine of Paul. He was an enemy to the truth. Godly pastors face the same problem every day. They stand and proclaim the truth, then their members go home and hear this truth disputed by radio and TV preachers.

John named Diotrephes. “I wrote unto the church; but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not” (III John 9). He related how this man had prated against him “with malicious words ” (v. 10). He further said, “Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God, but he that doeth evil hath not seen God ” (v. I 1). It is not wrong to name those whose doctrine and practice is contrary to the Word of God.

In fact, the whole Bible abounds in examples of false prophets being named and exposed. All this modem day talk about love, used as an excuse for not exposing error, is not really biblical love but is really sloppy agape.

Moses called the name of Balaam. (See Num. 22-25). Peter exposed “the way of Balaam , who loved the wages of unrighteousness ” (II Pet. 2:15). Balaam was a prophet that was in the work for money, just like some of the TV false prophets today. They beg for money and live like kings, while multitudes of innocent people send them their hard earned money. They are always building colleges, hospitals, TV network satellites, and amusement parks that have a water slide for Jesus. And then we are suppose to keep our mouth shut about these religious charlatans. How can we be silent and be true to God?

Jude exposed “the error of Balaam ” (Jude I 1). John exposed “the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication ” (Rev. 2:14). This gets right to the heart of the matter, concerning the doctrine of separation. Balaam never did curse Israel even though he wanted the wages that he was offered to do so. T

False teachers are breaking down the barrier of separation between God’s people and false religion. There is too little preaching and teaching on the doctrine of separation. Balaam breached the doctrine of personal separation by causing the men of Israel to commit fornication with the Moabite women. He breached the doctrine of ecclesiastical separation by causing the men of Israel to bow down to Baal. This brought a curse upon Israel. Until we get back to teaching the truth about personal and ecclesiastical separation, we can expect the continued widespread havoc that we have today.

It seems to be believed by many that some people are too high and mighty to be named or exposed. Men in high places, pastors of large churches, and those with great radio or TV audiences, are supposedly above criticism. Whatever they may do or say, no matter how contrary to the Bible it may be, is supposedly all right. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Nathan identified the man. There was a man in a very high place who was a secret adulterer. Surely this man who held the highest office in the land could not be rebuked by a lowly unpopular prophet. Nathan went right into the presence of David, revealed the sin in a parable form, and then told the enraged David, “Thou art the man ” (II Sam. 12:7).

 

[JohnDB]

Going to church today is radically different than it was 600 years ago. This notion of having a single speaker pontificate about whatever strikes their fancy for 20-30 minutes (and sometimes relates to scripture) is a wholly owned creation of the Calvinists from the Reformation to tell people what they should think about the scriptures and how to do life.

It used to be something similar to synagogue. Synagogue is where, according to a schedule made years in advance, men from the community would read a section of scriptures, different from the Torah, and then tell what those scriptures meant to them...which would then be discussed. Psalms would be sung and prayers said.

Before the Reformation, prayers would be said and songs (Gregorian chanting) but there wasn't any reading of scriptures (until the Anglican Church) and there would be a book of both prayers and songs.
Commentaries and commentaries on commentaries on scriptures would be taught.
Communion would be given. Alms and taxes paid...any fines that needed to be paid and licenses purchased.
(Holy Roman Empire was the Church and Government)

Luther was successful in getting the Bible "rediscovered"... people flat out didn't know it. He wasn't the first to discover the Bible but due to support he was the first to bring it to prominence once again.

Each pastor, even if part of a particular denomination, brings with him a new religion...one single person's theological system of understanding scriptures.

Small Group Bible School is different in that there is usually a leader but the scriptures are discussed. And when the leader is "out in left field" wrong the whole group lets he/she know how and why.

That doesn't happen with choreographed services involving 5000 people. And that one guy who speaks is simply telling people what they want to hear along the lines of a politician trying to get elected. He isn't better or worse than anyone else even though he has been thoroughly trained in such subjects as counseling, church finance, church organization structures, church music programs, and public speaking.

Currently the system in place puts a single man on a pedestal, lavishes gifts and finances, and makes people hang on his every word. And then people wonder why these ordinary men fail or get disgusted when they do.
Power attracts the corruptible. Pure and simple.

 

[Book Keeper]

I prefer churches which are smaller and have traditional values. I'm old-fashioned at heart, therefore I prefer the 'proper' way of engaging in church activities. I have been to modern churches, however they seem rather distant from God; they try and attract young people, and it works!

I would select a smaller church with a smaller flock, than a large church with a sea of people; I think its more personal.

 

[for_his_glory]

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize organized religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.

John 1:1 in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 the same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4 in him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 and the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

The biggest deception Satan can use is to confuse the unlearned mind. God said his people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. You forget me and my word and I will forget you and your children. This is a pretty profound statement that holds so much truth. This is why this world is in the shape it is in today with so many religions claiming they are the true religion and only they will go to heaven and those who do not conform to their ways will go to hell.

Truth has now turned to deception of the carnal minds ways of thinking which produces mans interpretations, traditions of law and doctrine. Satan has such a foothold on religions and has side blinded all of us into believing whatever is taught behind the pulpit is truth because after all, they are the Priest, Rabbis, Pastors, etc. etc. and they should know what they are talking about because they are our teachers. Satan is pretty clever and the master of lies and deceit.

1Peter 5:8 be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary the devil is seeking to whom he may devour.
1Peter 5:9 Whom resist steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
1Peter 5:10 but the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, establish, strengthen, settle you.

1Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles, (wisdom) of God, if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth, that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ to whom be praise and dominion forever and ever, Amen.

 

[Truthfrees]

Going to church today is radically different than it was 600 years ago. This notion of having a single speaker pontificate about whatever strikes their fancy for 20-30 minutes (and sometimes relates to scripture) is a wholly owned creation of the Calvinists from the Reformation to tell people what they should think about the scriptures and how to do life.

It used to be something similar to synagogue. Synagogue is where, according to a schedule made years in advance, men from the community would read a section of scriptures, different from the Torah, and then tell what those scriptures meant to them...which would then be discussed. Psalms would be sung and prayers said.

Before the Reformation, prayers would be said and songs (Gregorian chanting) but there wasn't any reading of scriptures (until the Anglican Church) and there would be a book of both prayers and songs.
Commentaries and commentaries on commentaries on scriptures would be taught.
Communion would be given. Alms and taxes paid...any fines that needed to be paid and licenses purchased.
(Holy Roman Empire was the Church and Government)

Luther was successful in getting the Bible "rediscovered"... people flat out didn't know it. He wasn't the first to discover the Bible but due to support he was the first to bring it to prominence once again.

Each pastor, even if part of a particular denomination, brings with him a new religion...one single person's theological system of understanding scriptures.

Small Group Bible School is different in that there is usually a leader but the scriptures are discussed. And when the leader is "out in left field" wrong the whole group lets he/she know how and why.

That doesn't happen with choreographed services involving 5000 people. And that one guy who speaks is simply telling people what they want to hear along the lines of a politician trying to get elected. He isn't better or worse than anyone else even though he has been thoroughly trained in such subjects as counseling, church finance, church organization structures, church music programs, and public speaking.

Currently the system in place puts a single man on a pedestal, lavishes gifts and finances, and makes people hang on his every word. And then people wonder why these ordinary men fail or get disgusted when they do.
Power attracts the corruptible. Pure and simple.

we could tear each other apart pointing out the errors in each other's lives

 

[JohnDB]

so true -

today's church looks nothing like the NT church - there was one church per city - no denominations - no names - no titles - the 5 fold ministry met to pray/worship/fast as per Acts 13 to seek God about everything - and even then there was corruption - seems like it is a human nature thing

the thing about calling out others is that so many times it is a carnal dislike for another - like this thread about mega churches - to tell the truth the NT church was one mega church per city - the only difference being all the apostles prophets evangelists teachers pastors were the leadership of the one mega church per city -

so any church that is not lead by the 5 fold ministry of the city is not aligned with the NT church -

the complaints and finger pointing are endless today and then - carnality pursues gossip and negativity - spirituality lays down one's life to serve and restore

how sad a state we are in to be attacking others instead of judging self

we could tear each other apart pointing out the errors in each other's lives - little churches - medium churches - megachurches - no churches

or we can follow Philippians 4:8 and try to build each other up

I agree...
The problem is giving one guy all that power and money. Of course it's going to attract the corruptible. Of course it will corrupt someone not even looking to be that important.
Several big name pastors started out great with great intentions and messages...and now the money and power has corrupted them. It's "our" fault by setting them up on a pedestal.

 

[Corn Pop]

Paul named and shamed.

"Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."

Jesus was probably the biggest namer and shamer. Publically calling people hypocrites because they were hypocrites. If someone is a hypocrite or liar then call them out.

 

[Corn Pop]

I agree...
The problem is giving one guy all that power and money. Of course it's going to attract the corruptible. Of course it will corrupt someone not even looking to be that important.
Several big name pastors started out great with great intentions and messages...and now the money and power has corrupted them. It's "our" fault by setting them up on a pedestal.

People donate out of good faith, what the church or pastor does with that money is no one else's fault. It's like tax, we pay taxes with the expectation is goes to good use, what the government does with our taxes is no one else fault.

I have a clean conscience.

 

[Truthfrees]

Paul named and shamed.

"Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."

Jesus was probably the biggest namer and shamer. Publically calling people hypocrites because they were hypocrites. If someone is a hypocrite or liar then call them out.

or stay away from them