Mercy Killing

[Classik]

Any thread on Mercy Killing? Probably not! :dunno

Already the bible instructs us never to kill. Christianity obeys this commandment, and many other People (non-christians) also try to avoid killing. The society sees it as a criminal offence.

If abortion is considered a murder (although not all agree it is), how about Mercy killing?
Is mercy killing a sin?
E.g. a doctor decides to kill a sick person who is suffering severly.

 

[jasoncran]

euthanasia is a sin. is the person a threat to you and others no he is just sick.

its murder in that god never commanded a man to take the life of the sick.

 

[Classik]

euthanasia is a sin. is the person a threat to you and others no he is just sick.

its murder in that god never commanded a man to take the life of the sick.

Yes!
However, I kind of feel like justifying it when you see a patient in dreadful agony. What difference does it make when the person would still die (I am not trying to justify it)? All the doctor does (especially if the patients longs to die) is speed up his death.
Even soldiers do it. If a soldier is fatally wounded he usually tries to kill himself or order his fellow soldier to do that.

 

[mharold]

I like this thread because that like saying a pastor should carry a gun, or that a Christian should fight in wars. A sin is a sin. Matthew5:19-20.

 

[jasoncran]

Yes!
However, I kind of feel like justifying it when you see a patient in dreadful agony. What difference does it make when the person would still die (I am not trying to justify it)? All the doctor does (especially if the patients longs to die) is speed up his death.
Even soldiers do it. If a soldier is fatally wounded he usually tries to kill himself or order his fellow soldier to do that.

no we dont. if i saw that then i will ensure the ucmj would be used in full force. movies.

most of the time the soldier will die so quickly that he wont have the conscience to say that. if one is hit in the abdomen there is usually hope, its the head and chest shots that get like that.

 

[Lewis]

We have talked about mercy killing before on this board, this board has talked about everything over the years.

 

[Classik]

no we dont. if i saw that then i will ensure the ucmj would be used in full force. movies.

most of the time the soldier will die so quickly that he wont have the conscience to say that. if one is hit in the abdomen there is usually hope, its the head and chest shots that get like that.

Ok, Jasoncran, I have never been there before (we only fight in the spiritual realms:D). You fight both in the spiritual realm and in the physical.

 

[Pebbles]

From my perspective If indivduals have fundimental rights to life then in order for that to be valid an indivdual must also be able to exercise a right to death or to suspend that right.

The issue is that illness can muddy an indivduals ablity to rationalize clearly, For exsample I have been in a suicidal state of mind at least twice where I attempted to kill myself.
This was resultant of my gender dysphoria having not been treated or addressed properly putting me into a perminant state of distress combined whitch was combined with catastropic problems in my life in general at that time. I of course am not suicidally depressed anymore.

This is why if I or society were to support euthanasia it has to be done with great care and safeguards to avoid the above problem of indivduals pressuring others into such courses of action against their uninfluenced judgement.

One way of doing this I think if an indivdual places a statement of the conditions of when and how they want to die when they are of good health mentally and physically then assuming all parties willing I can't see why others should really get involved in these circumstances.

And intresting point I'd like to highlight I suspect alot of indivduals on this forum are partial to the idea of the death penalty... Why are criminals who commit monsterous crimes afforded MORE liberty than non-criminal persons...

FYI Yes some pepole do kill themselves this way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop

 

[Ace1234]

Ceratainly I think abortion is wrong, unless the life of the mother is at state.

Mercy killing, better known as the right to die is another issue. I have a severe nerve disease and I've known many that have it take their lives. The wrong assumption is to think people can get medical care in this nation, millions don't have it. Millions chose to eat rather than buy needed meds. Chronic illness or severe disease isn't something you can walk into an emergency room and get help. Many become ill, lose job, lose insurance, then you lose Doctors, meds, etc...I was somewhat stable being treated by specialist, on many meds. When I lost my job, wasn't long I couldn't afford insurance, lost that...my specialist dropped me and meds..This is the case for many with severe chronic illness. To qualify for medicare, you basically have to sell all assets of any worth and care is poor at best with many rare illnesses.

Of my friends that have died, none wanted it, they simply couldn't live in lives of pain and poverty. In some states you have the right to death. In some states they push it for people seriously ill. Some in Cali are refused meds or expensive procedures that might prolong life another year, but medicare will approve meds that end life, a cocktail that is cheap and will bring a rather quick painless death.
Many take this option.

In other states like the one I'm in, those with the illness I have chose nitrogen cylinders with a tube and a mask. It was basically designed by a Doctor to end life easily, many of my friends have used this method.

I don't see taking your own life as sin when you're down to lil options or a life of severe pain with no hope of improvement. I fight suicide, it's hard for anyone that must deal with such.

Certainly emotional disorders or where intervention can be had people should do all they can to prevent and get people correct help, but I've also seen the failure in this..Some of my friends had family step in to prevent suicide, with no money, most get sent to state wards where treatment is poor. Often they are put on many depressants or strong mind altering drugs with lil understanding of their illness....and it never works.

 

[Classik]

It Is murder (Following what the bible says), and God is against it. But my concern is, most of these people are really in agony, no money to keep them alive. What would a poor family do? Would people spend all they have?
It is very painful when after everything the person dies...
--
There are people who have stayed in coma for over 7yrs

 

[Ace1234]

It Is murder (Following what the bible says), and God is against it. But my concern is, most of these people are really in agony, no money to keep them alive. What would a poor family do? Would people spend all they have?
It is very painful when after everything the person dies...
--
There are people who have stayed in coma for over 7yrs

Well, you more than nailed it on the head, what do poor people do, matter fact what to middle class or better do. Most bankrupties for the average middle class family before the economy failed was medical, starts will prolonged illness, loss of job, then loss of insurance. I know in my case after I lost insurance, medical cost took every spare dime I could earn. Then you decide meds over your kids eating, etc...then you get worse..It's actually common. You go into poverty trying to get help, then once there and no more money you get no help, plus you're in poverty. We have to remember since the 70's the medical industry became a corporate function based on mass profits...

Most lose all then go on medicare, but they're still cost. Many can't get through all the red tape of medicare/medicaid, numerous end up homeless on the streets.
Studies differ, but an average of 3000 people kill themselves each year due to not being able to get medical help and can no longer stand living.

There is some help, charities, but today they're very burdened and even medicare being so broke is making cuts. We have 3 state hospitals in our area that do medicare and all stay borderline in being disqualified, one of our largest actually was, many can't travel an hour to another. Sadly, many specialist don't see medicare patients....

With over 40 million americans now without insurance or underinsured, medicare broke, medical care is fast becoming a service for the rich. Forgetting those that kill themselves, we have a few hundred thousand die each year from just the lack of care, not to mentioned Doctor mistakes.

 

[Classik]

Well, you more than nailed it on the head, what do poor people do, matter fact what to middle class or better do. Most bankrupties for the average middle class family before the economy failed was medical, starts will prolonged illness, loss of job, then loss of insurance. I know in my case after I lost insurance, medical cost took every spare dime I could earn. Then you decide meds over your kids eating, etc...then you get worse..It's actually common. You go into poverty trying to get help, then once there and no more money you get no help, plus you're in poverty. We have to remember since the 70's the medical industry became a corporate function based on mass profits...

Most lose all then go on medicare, but they're still cost. Many can't get through all the red tape of medicare/medicaid, numerous end up homeless on the streets.
Studies differ, but an average of 3000 people kill themselves each year due to not being able to get medical help and can no longer stand living.

There is some help, charities, but today they're very burdened and even medicare being so broke is making cuts. We have 3 state hospitals in our area that do medicare and all stay borderline in being disqualified, one of our largest actually was, many can't travel an hour to another. Sadly, many specialist don't see medicare patients....

With over 40 million americans now without insurance or underinsured, medicare broke, medical care is fast becoming a service for the rich. Forgetting those that kill themselves, we have a few hundred thousand die each year from just the lack of care, not to mentioned Doctor mistakes.

Thanks, Ace
I think it is a general problem today. People cry every second - there is no one to help. Our families have failed us, the governement can't help enough. You have 500 people all in desperate need for medical attention. You choose some and leave some. (Trust politicians)

--
My church member died some years ago. He had kidney failure. He spent all he had on this, all to no avail. We prayed to God, we wept before God. The man afterwards pleaded with us to stop praying and holding him back.
God has His unique way of doing things. The man died after we all with one voice said: 'Your will be done'.
I thank God, today the family is strong again.

 

[jasoncran]

It Is murder (Following what the bible says), and God is against it. But my concern is, most of these people are really in agony, no money to keep them alive. What would a poor family do? Would people spend all they have?
It is very painful when after everything the person dies...
--
There are people who have stayed in coma for over 7yrs

God never said those that served him or not would have a good life.

its funny we tell teens dont do it and stop them. but bemoan a solders who take their lives. ptsd doesnt just stop.

so i guess we let then end it

in honor of prestidge who did just that.
sadly.

 

[Ace1234]

no we dont. if i saw that then i will ensure the ucmj would be used in full force. movies.

most of the time the soldier will die so quickly that he wont have the conscience to say that. if one is hit in the abdomen there is usually hope, its the head and chest shots that get like that.

You're thinking current wars, in wars of old mercy killing or suicide was common. Even in our civil war many soldiers in pain wounded on the field put a bullet in their head, had they been able to wait would've made it.

 

[Christ_empowered]

My concern with mercy killing is that I believe, as a Christian, that human life has intrinsic value and worth and should be preserved. But you do get to a point where you wonder--really? I mean, the pain can get to be so much, the treatments cost so much and do so little, and everybody involved is in agony. Would God really frown on suicide, or in extreme cases, a mercy killing? I don't know. The Catholic Church has probably done more thinking on this issue than any other denomination I can think of, and they say hastening someone's death and suicide are both absolutely not permissible. Personally, I think the answer might be for us as a society to own up to death. Its inevitable. Not everyone lives to be 100. I think maybe more emphasis on hospice and other forms of palliative end-of-life care might be a cost-effective and humane alternative to either continuing dreadful, expensive treatments or inducing death through mercy killing or suicide.

 

[jasoncran]

You're thinking current wars, in wars of old mercy killing or suicide was common. Even in our civil war many soldiers in pain wounded on the field put a bullet in their head, had they been able to wait would've made it.

well if one wants to be that technical the guns given to pilots isnt for self-defense. its for them to shoot the electronics and themselves afterwards.

to avoid capture.

 

[handy]

I find this concept to be a complex one, especially in this day and age when we have the capability to extend life far beyond what would have been possible before. I know God is a God of mercy, and I think He understands how hard it can be for some....I don't necessarily believe that all forms of suicide is automatically sinful...or at least no more sinful than any other sin.

However, I've decided to share this, just for food for thought.

When my dad was diagnosed with cancer, he chose to do nothing. Hospice was called in and basically we treated his pain as best we could. He chose to do nothing that would ether prevent his death nor prolong his life. Early in the summer, he asked that all who could come on over. Seriously, it was like a big party at mom and dad's for a while. Dad said at the time, "Except for the dying part, it's been great!"

My brother came and visited and stayed as long as he could, but he's a working man that lives in a different state, so he couldn't stay long. The morning my brother left, and my dad and brother knew they would never see each other again on this earth was one of the hardest. One knew that there was unfinished business between the two, but there was basically nothing to be done.

The summer stretched into fall and dad failed fairly quickly, all things considered. By September, he was nothing but skin, bones and pain. It was very hard to watch, but he never once lost his faith...although he did say daily that he was ready to "Go home" at any time...but still he lingered and was in constant pain. It was very hard.

One night, my brother was awoken from a sound sleep. He turned, woke up his wife and told her to call in for him, he was going to see Dad. This very well might have meant his job, but he knew God's call when he heard it. He got up, dressed, and drove all the way to my parents. He spent the remainder of that day with dad, leaving the following morning. Dad, unbelievably, was still able to communicate and whatever my dad and brother talked about brought about much peace for both of them. After my brother left, Dad slipped into a coma and died later that night.

This is why I don't jump both feet on the "mercy killing" bandwagon...sometimes, as hard as it is to watch, God has reasons for things that we might not fully understand. I don't know everything that went on between my dad and my brother, but I know that had we decided to "mercifully helped" Dad along earlier, then my brother would not live with the full peace and comfort that he now has, and dad would have died with unfinished business with his son.

Just something to consider.

 

[Ace1234]

well if one wants to be that technical the guns given to pilots isnt for self-defense. its for them to shoot the electronics and themselves afterwards.

to avoid capture.

Well, not today, pilots don't shoot themselves to avoid capture as they did in wars past. Mercy killing is more about someone in so much pain or distress they would rather die than live..but it has to be up to the individual to make that decision. Like I said, a few US states allow asst. suicide for severe painful illness or possible death.

I watched an interesting documentary of a 38 year old lady, nice family, 3 young kids that had cancer. She basically made a movie using her camera of her life facing death. She was lucky, a rather well off family, good insurance, Doctor's, etc.. She was told she had maybe a year to live, she decided she would end her life with the help of Docs and family when it became painful. She got bad and almost did, but tried help and surgery, chemo..etc..one more time. She actually got better with some new trial meds for several months. She was glad she didn't take the death cocktail. However, she relapsed and cancer was worse, she was having two gallons of fluid pumped out of her stomach daily...She kept a prescription for the death cocktail and got them filled. On Christmas eve night her husband made her the cocktail, her family gathered around and they sang some songs, she drank it, they sang about a minute and she passed.

Compare that to another man with cancer, just as bad with no insurance or family that cared. He was refused treatment from medicare that could prolong his life maybe a year at best. He hoped living longer, maybe other options would give him more life. Medicare refused the expensive treatments, yet agreed to pay for the death pills so he could end his life.....being in so much pain he eventually did.

The problem is many are at the mercy of the system. Someone starving homeless may decide better to die than go through the pain of starving to death.

I just read a book about the many Chinese women that were brought to America during the 1870's decade for prostitution. They had no say and were slaves. They would bring so many that they didn't worry hardly about feeding them. They would keep them doped up on opium. They were forced to do every brutal sexual act. Their average lifespan once in America was 4 days. Word gets around eventually, so many woman captured would do anything to kill themselves before they got to America

Maybe we wouldn't need mercy killing if we had more people showing mercy.

 

[jasoncran]

i was told that less then twenty years ago and im still in.

what chance does a bettera 92 with at the most 30 rounds on the person have to keep the pilot alive? not much

sorry. life was horrible in the days of the romans and no christians did that.

food for thought. paul wrote praises of god in the bible and im sure he wanted to die at times yet he learned to be joyous in such times

which is better?

god im suffering,kill me and its not a sin

or god it sucks that im in pain and so forth but i ask that you give me peace beyong understanding

do you fear death? look i have read the most beautiful testimonies from cancer surivivors as it brought them to reality. God is real and more real

here[video=youtube;iOufqWodFNo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOufqWodFNo[/video]

 

[jasoncran]

there are things that no man can tell me the answer too that only God has given me peace about.

i shall always have that side of me that is jaded from war. but i give that to god as he says look on him not the situation.