millenium

[abet]

WHo will be the people who will be passing the millenium

 

[veteran]

I assume you mean Christ's Milennial reign, which is still future to us today. And by passing, I assume you're asking if some go through it while others do not?

ALL will experience Christ's Milennium reign on earth, except some which are destroyed at Christ's coming (like the 7,000 of Rev.11). The "thousand years" of Rev.20 is to be a time of teaching God's Word. That's one of the duties of the priest. The devil will be locked in the pit during that period, not able to have influence until after the thousand years. That's another way we can know that "thousand years" period has not begun yet, because the devil still has influence in the world today.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

i am sorry what does passing the millenium mean?

 

[toddm]

We're IN the "millennium" right now.

 

[veteran]

If we're in Christ's Milennium reign now, then why aren't we reigning with Him on earth like the Scripture says? (Rev.5:10).


What kind of guitar is that toddm? I played guitar for many years.

 

[toddm]

If we're in Christ's Milennium reign now, then why aren't we reigning with Him on earth like the Scripture says? (Rev.5:10).

Where does it mention that that is part of the millennium? I see the reigning in that verse as a couple of possibilities.

1) The reigning is a bit figurative in describing the advancement of the Gospel and growth of the Church, since the rest of v. 10 seems to be describing the Church - a kingdom of every tribe & language, and priests to God (1 Peter 2:9).

2) The reigning could be a future reference to the new heaven/new earth which would be after the millennium & Final Judgment.

What kind of guitar is that toddm? I played guitar for many years.

It's a McPherson. They're handcrafted guitars that sound absolutely amazing. I picked that up about a year ago and absolutely love it. They're becoming quite popular w/ contemporary Christian artists like Paul Baloche, Steven Curtis Chapman, & Amy Grant. Country singers like Brad Paisley have also discovered McPhersons. Their design & sound is second to none.

 

[RND]

WHo will be the people who will be passing the millenium

The righteous who are either resurrected or translated at the second coming of Christ.

 

[MMarc]

If we're in Christ's Milennium reign now, then why aren't we reigning with Him on earth like the Scripture says? (Rev.5:10).


What kind of guitar is that toddm? I played guitar for many years.

We reign in the heavens while on earth, we reign in the spiritual sense.

We don't have to be physically dead to rule with Christ. I too believe we have started the milennial reign of Jesus the Christ.

 

[abet]

Yes, you are correct. What kind of peole will be passing the millenial reign of Christ? Are they the survivors of the Armagedon? Are they bearing the mark of the beast? Where did they came from?

 

[veteran]

If we're in Christ's Milennium reign now, then why aren't we reigning with Him on earth like the Scripture says? (Rev.5:10).

Where does it mention that that is part of the millennium? I see the reigning in that verse as a couple of possibilities.

1) The reigning is a bit figurative in describing the advancement of the Gospel and growth of the Church, since the rest of v. 10 seems to be describing the Church - a kingdom of every tribe & language, and priests to God (1 Peter 2:9).

2) The reigning could be a future reference to the new heaven/new earth which would be after the millennium & Final Judgment.

What kind of guitar is that toddm? I played guitar for many years.

It's a McPherson. They're handcrafted guitars that sound absolutely amazing. I picked that up about a year ago and absolutely love it. They're becoming quite popular w/ contemporary Christian artists like Paul Baloche, Steven Curtis Chapman, & Amy Grant. Country singers like Brad Paisley have also discovered McPhersons. Their design & sound is second to none.

That time of a "thousand years" reign of Christ with His saints is given in Scripture like Rev.14, 15 and 20 about those who were beheaded for Christ, those who refused to receive the mark of the beast or refused to worship the beast, and gotten the victory over him, i.e., the "first resurrection". It is the time Paul mentioned in 1 Cor.15:23-28 that Christ must reign over His enemies, putting them under His footstool before the Kingdom will be delivered up to The Father (i.e., prior to the new heavens and a new earth, prior to the great white throne judgment). It is tied with the idea of the "rod of iron" Christ is to rule with, which was mentioned in Psalms 2 about Christ's future reign over all nations with His saints. A literal picture of that time is also given in the last part of Zechariah 14 after Christ's return. Rev.20 reveals the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" is where He and His saints will rule from; it's shown there as being upon the breadth of the earth.

The last nine chapters of Ezekiel give a measuring of a temple on earth at Jerusalem that's never been built before, which includes the abodes ("mansions") of the priests, with the Holy City reaching outward 60 miles x 60 miles. If you look 60 miles westward from Jerusalem today, you'll find there's no land that far west, it runs into the sea. That's the Milennial temple Christ will reign from at His coming in the Holy land. That's where His saints will rule with Him over the nations, here on earth. That's why Rev.5:10 says the saints will rule "one the earth". In Ezekiel 44, those are called the Zadok, which is a Hebrew word meaning 'the righteous'. So there's a lot of Old Testament Scripture given that goes with what our Lord Jesus was revealing in His Book of Revelation about that "thousand years" reign.

-----------------

Beautiful guitar McPherson. Looks like a cedar top? I demoed a hand made Loudon once (made in Ireland?); loved the tone especially, but the intonation was a bit off. I've got a Takamine acoustic/elec., some kind of rare western model with torquoise inlays. I fell in love with it because it has a slight nylon classical tone while being a steel string.

 

[Elf]

That time of a "thousand years" reign of Christ with His saints is given in Scripture like Rev.14, 15 and 20 about those who were beheaded for Christ, those who refused to receive the mark of the beast or refused to worship the beast, and gotten the victory over him, i.e., the "first resurrection". It is the time Paul mentioned in 1 Cor.15:23-28 that Christ must reign over His enemies, putting them under His footstool before the Kingdom will be delivered up to The Father (i.e., prior to the new heavens and a new earth, prior to the great white throne judgment). It is tied with the idea of the "rod of iron" Christ is to rule with, which was mentioned in Psalms 2 about Christ's future reign over all nations with His saints. A literal picture of that time is also given in the last part of Zechariah 14 after Christ's return. Rev.20 reveals the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" is where He and His saints will rule from; it's shown there as being upon the breadth of the earth.

After reading through many posts of end times, I have a couple questions. I've studied these things for quite some time and it is a difficult study and I have reached some concerns and questions.

You are saying, the millennium is a period in which people who have been raised from the dead and "who now live on the earth in resurrected bodies" coexist with people who have not been raised from the dead and who remain in the flesh? How is that possible?

Where is it taught in scripture that there will be a mixture of resurrected and unresurrected individuals? This would assume the millennium being a half-way step before the final consummation. It just don't line up with the writings in the bible.

How do you fit in those who died in Christ throughout the years? Where is the teaching they will remain in the grave until after the millennium? But if they also reign with Christ, this presents another problem.

What happens to all those who were evil (not Christians) when Christ sets up His earthly millennium for 1,000 years? where are they? Scripture teaches during this time, those who are not Christ's, will face His wrath and will be taken to face final judgment, Matt 24:37-41.
So I assume they are not here on earth during this time?

How can you explain there being anyone living here on earth during this time with unresurrected bodies?

If all have resurrected bodies, then they all must be saints, right? If so, then who revolts later on?

 

[Elf]

We're IN the "millennium" right now.

That seems to make the most sense. But the millennium must also be in heaven presently.

 

[Elf]

If we're in Christ's Milennium reign now, then why aren't we reigning with Him on earth like the Scripture says? (Rev.5:10).

I assume you mean every believer, those who were alive and those who had died in Christ, right?

 

[Elf]

I assume you mean Christ's Milennial reign, which is still future to us today. And by passing, I assume you're asking if some go through it while others do not?

ALL will experience Christ's Milennium reign on earth, except some which are destroyed at Christ's coming (like the 7,000 of Rev.11). The "thousand years" of Rev.20 is to be a time of teaching God's Word. That's one of the duties of the priest. The devil will be locked in the pit during that period, not able to have influence until after the thousand years. That's another way we can know that "thousand years" period has not begun yet, because the devil still has influence in the world today.

So, those in resurrected bodies will co exist with those in un-resurrected bodies during the millennium.
How do we account for people who are not judged or raised from the dead during the millennium? Especially considering Jesus's words, that in in age to come His people will all be children of the resurrection, Luke 20:34-38.

 

[veteran]

After reading through many posts of end times, I have a couple questions. I've studied these things for quite some time and it is a difficult study and I have reached some concerns and questions.

You are saying, the millennium is a period in which people who have been raised from the dead and "who now live on the earth in resurrected bodies" coexist with people who have not been raised from the dead and who remain in the flesh? How is that possible?

No, I've never said that. But that's what a lot of other folks believe and have said. Some think the "dead" of Rev.20:5 are raised at the end of the "thousand years", only to go into the "lake of fire".

What the Apostle Paul actually showed, and also our Lord Jesus in John 5, is at His coming both the just and unjust will be raised, and those still alive on earth will be changed at the twinkling of an eye to the resurrection body (see Acts 24:15 also).

Where is it taught in scripture that there will be a mixture of resurrected and unresurrected individuals? This would assume the millennium being a half-way step before the final consummation. It just don't line up with the writings in the bible.

God's Word does not teach that only some will be resurrected. It teaches that all will be, some to the resurrection unto life through Christ, and another group unto "the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29). Both types are resurrections, if you'll notice...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

How do you fit in those who died in Christ throughout the years? Where is the teaching they will remain in the grave until after the millennium? But if they also reign with Christ, this presents another problem.

I don't see a problem with what Rev.20 reveals about His "thousand years" reign with His saints. Paul covered about the asleep saints in 1 Thess.4. He showed that Christ will bring those asleep saints with Him when He returns, and both the dead saints and the saints that remain on earth until He comes will be joined to Him together. That's the "first resurrection" that will reign with Christ for the "thousand years". That's not about the wicked.

What happens to all those who were evil (not Christians) when Christ sets up His earthly millennium for 1,000 years? where are they? Scripture teaches during this time, those who are not Christ's, will face His wrath and will be taken to face final judgment, Matt 24:37-41.
So I assume they are not here on earth during this time?

The wicked are resurrected also, per John 5:29, but those will still be subject to the "second death" as explained in that Rev.20 chapter. First death is of the flesh, second death is of the soul and resurrection body going into the lake of fire at the end of the thousand years. See Luke 12:4-5; the word "hell" in that verse is not Hades, it's Hinnom, about the valley of Hinnom of the OT. Hinnom is used as a symbol for the one time "lake of fire" event.

Study about the "outer darkness" idea our Lord Jesus mentioned in Matthew 8, Matthew 22, and Matthew 25. Compare that to the ones outside the gates of the Holy City in Rev.22:13-14. There's to be a place of separation outside the Holy City on earth, and it's the "outer darkness" idea our Lord Jesus mentioned. That's where the resurrected wicked will be during that "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect priests, on earth.

How can you explain there being anyone living here on earth during this time with unresurrected bodies?

If all have resurrected bodies, then they all must be saints, right? If so, then who revolts later on?

It is automatically assumed by many when they hear the word resurrection, that it's only for Christ's saints. Our Lord mentioned 2 different types of resurrection in John 5:29 though. And Paul said in Acts 24:15 that it was his hope there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust. Paul gave a detail in 1 Corinthians 15:53 which many miss, but it's been there all along. He showed there are 2 conditions that must be met to be of the "first resurrection" unto Life through Christ Jesus:

1) this corruptible must put incorruption
AND,
2) this mortal must put on immortality

Most often it's assumed Paul was speaking of the same thing with those two phrases. Those 4 words are 4 different words in the Greek. Those of the "first resurrection" through Christ will put on both no.1 and no.2. But the "resurrection of damnation" (unjust) will only go through no.1

This is how the unjust only will still be subject to the "second death" per Rev.20. What is the "second death"? The casting of the body (spiritual body) with soul into the "lake of fire" at the end of the "thousand years."

Hope that's not confusing. It can be a difficult detail to grasp, but it's there (especially per the original Greek). And it reveals why the wicked are called "the dead" in Rev.20 even after being resurrected.

1 Corinthians 15:23-28 tells us Christ must reign over His enemies, putting them under His footstool before He will deliver up the Kingdom to the Father. That's one of the reasons for that "thousand years" reign of Rev.20. Then at the end of that thousand years, Satan is loosed to tempt the nations once again. He won't be tempting the saints, because that's who he comes up against. He'll be tempting the unjust who are still subject to the "second death". And only certain ones of the nations will follow Satan to go upon the breadth of the earth against "the camp of the saints" and "beloved city". That's when God's fire out of Heaven will burn those up. And then the great white throne judgment will begin, and all those not written in the Book of Life will be thrown into the "lake of fire", along with death, the abode of hell ("outer darkness"), and be no more (Ps.37; Ezek.28:18). Then shall begin the new heavens and a new earth time, God's Eternity.

 

[Elf]

First, veteran, let me say thank you for taking the time (time is precious) for explaining your understanding, it is appreciated, and I am very interested in this subject of the end times. I look forward to reading your (and others) posts concerning this subject.

After reading through many posts of end times, I have a couple questions. I've studied these things for quite some time and it is a difficult study and I have reached some concerns and questions.

You are saying, the millennium is a period in which people who have been raised from the dead and "who now live on the earth in resurrected bodies" coexist with people who have not been raised from the dead and who remain in the flesh? How is that possible?

No, I've never said that. But that's what a lot of other folks believe and have said. Some think the "dead" of Rev.20:5 are raised at the end of the "thousand years", only to go into the "lake of fire".

Ok.

What the Apostle Paul actually showed, and also our Lord Jesus in John 5, is at His coming both the just and unjust will be raised, and those still alive on earth will be changed at the twinkling of an eye to the resurrection body (see Acts 24:15 also).

Yes, I see that in those verses you presented, both the righteous and the wicked will be resurrected.

Where is it taught in scripture that there will be a mixture of resurrected and unresurrected individuals? This would assume the millennium being a half-way step before the final consummation. It just don't line up with the writings in the bible.

God's Word does not teach that only some will be resurrected. It teaches that all will be, some to the resurrection unto life through Christ, and another group unto "the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29). Both types are resurrections, if you'll notice...

Yes, I noticed, ty.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

What happens to all those who were evil (not Christians) when Christ sets up His earthly millennium for 1,000 years? where are they? Scripture teaches during this time, those who are not Christ's, will face His wrath and will be taken to face final judgment, Matt 24:37-41.
So I assume they are not here on earth during this time?

The wicked are resurrected also, per John 5:29, but those will still be subject to the "second death" as explained in that Rev.20 chapter. First death is of the flesh, second death is of the soul and resurrection body going into the lake of fire at the end of the thousand years. See Luke 12:4-5; the word "hell" in that verse is not Hades, it's Hinnom, about the valley of Hinnom of the OT. Hinnom is used as a symbol for the one time "lake of fire" event.

So, in a nut shell, the second death is hell?

How can you explain there being anyone living here on earth during this time with unresurrected bodies?

If all have resurrected bodies, then they all must be saints, right? If so, then who revolts later on?

It is automatically assumed by many when they hear the word resurrection, that it's only for Christ's saints. Our Lord mentioned 2 different types of resurrection in John 5:29 though. And Paul said in Acts 24:15 that it was his hope there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust. Paul gave a detail in 1 Corinthians 15:53 which many miss, but it's been there all along. He showed there are 2 conditions that must be met to be of the "first resurrection" unto Life through Christ Jesus:

1) this corruptible must put incorruption
AND,
2) this mortal must put on immortality

Most often it's assumed Paul was speaking of the same thing with those two phrases. Those 4 words are 4 different words in the Greek. Those of the "first resurrection" through Christ will put on both no.1 and no.2. But the "resurrection of damnation" (unjust) will only go through no.1

This is how the unjust only will still be subject to the "second death" per Rev.20. What is the "second death"? The casting of the body (spiritual body) with soul into the "lake of fire" at the end of the "thousand years."

Pre- Millennialism teaches that Jesus Christ returns to judge the world in Revelation 19 and sets up His Millennial reign in Revelation 20 correct? The Pre-Mills belief is, the Millennial period is, 1000 years of peace.
It reads, Revelation 19:19-21, And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh. <------so here is the judgment.

Then immediately following is:
Revelation 20:1-2 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
So now we have Satan bound for 1,000 years, according to Pre-Mill belief.

There is something wrong here already, do you see it?

When after the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released (for a short time) and he will deceive the nations. The problem is, these nations which Satan will deceive have already been Judged by Christ according to Rev 19:15. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.

This is an area which just does not fit with scripture. I think pre-mills fail here and Amills succeed, when they say Satan was bound at the cross.

Hope that's not confusing. It can be a difficult detail to grasp, but it's there (especially per the original Greek). And it reveals why the wicked are called "the dead" in Rev.20 even after being resurrected.

The confusing part is getting it all to fit into Pre-millennialism.

1 Corinthians 15:23-28 tells us Christ must reign over His enemies, putting them under His footstool before He will deliver up the Kingdom to the Father. That's one of the reasons for that "thousand years" reign of Rev.20. Then at the end of that thousand years, Satan is loosed to tempt the nations once again. He won't be tempting the saints, because that's who he comes up against. He'll be tempting the unjust who are still subject to the "second death". And only certain ones of the nations will follow Satan to go upon the breadth of the earth against "the camp of the saints" and "beloved city". That's when God's fire out of Heaven will burn those up. And then the great white throne judgment will begin, and all those not written in the Book of Life will be thrown into the "lake of fire", along with death, the abode of hell ("outer darkness"), and be no more (Ps.37; Ezek.28:18). Then shall begin the new heavens and a new earth time, God's Eternity.

If all have been resurrected, the evil judged according to Revelation 19:19-21, and the saints reign with Christ in resurrected bodies for a thousand year period, then this presents another problem for the Pre-Mill belief.

Now everyone believes resurrected saints will not be involved with the revolt depicted in Revelation 20, I mean after a saint has been resurrected and glorified they cannot be deceived. Therefore those who revolt during the millennium must be individuals who have not been raised from the dead or who have not gone through the judgment when Christ returned to earth when the millennial period began. Who else could it possibly be?

Even if these are people who came to faith in Christ during the tribulation period, having missed the "Rapture," survived the wrath of the antichrist, and as some teach, repopulate the earth during the Millennium, is highly problematic, despite reading and understand Revelation literally.

When I read Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

I understand "the second death" as the death of the soul, eternal punishment. The first resurrection, I believe is, either spiritual birth (born again) John 5:24-25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. , or, going to be with Christ when one dies, 2 Cor 5:8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
Phil 1:23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;

 

[Elf]

God's Word does not teach that only some will be resurrected. It teaches that all will be, some to the resurrection unto life through Christ, and another group unto "the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29). Both types are resurrections, if you'll notice...

I see that and I agree.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

Notice this verse: And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There is nothing implied at all about a gap between this resurrection and the judgment, to insert one would violate the plain sense of this passage. Matthew 25, is just as clear.

The wicked are resurrected also, per John 5:29, but those will still be subject to the "second death" as explained in that Rev.20 chapter. First death is of the flesh, second death is of the soul and resurrection body going into the lake of fire at the end of the thousand years. See Luke 12:4-5; the word "hell" in that verse is not Hades, it's Hinnom, about the valley of Hinnom of the OT. Hinnom is used as a symbol for the one time "lake of fire" event.

In Matthew 25, it is explicitly taught that this final judgment occurs when Jesus returns. If we must take scriptural literal, as you said, then please show me a 1,000 year gap between our Lord's return and this final judgment?
Matthew 25:31-46 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I surely don't see a 1,000 year gap. To insert a 1,000 year gap here violates the plain sense of this passage and also the insistence on a literal interpretation.

Which brings me back to the same problem. If Jesus rules upon this earth in this millennial period, He rules over people in both resurrected and un-resurrected bodies, and this would be a serious problem since Jesus taught that in the age to come His people would be children of the resurrection Luke 20:34-38, read it for yourself.

I have been a Pre-Mill for about 20 years, lately I am not so sure I agree with it. It is a deep, exhaustive study, which I continue in throughout the years.
The facts of the matter is, there are a few positions of belief on this subject, Pre-Mill, Post-Mill, Amill, ect..... As you are sincere, I am sure, in your studies and beliefs, I am as well. Which ever position is the truth according to scripture, that is the position I want to be convinced of and believe. As of yet, I am not convinced of any.

God Bless.

 

[toddm]

I have been a Pre-Mill for about 20 years, lately I am not so sure I agree with it. It is a deep, exhaustive study, which I continue in throughout the years.
The facts of the matter is, there are a few positions of belief on this subject, Pre-Mill, Post-Mill, Amill, ect..... As you are sincere, I am sure, in your studies and beliefs, I am as well. Which ever position is the truth according to scripture, that is the position I want to be convinced of and believe. As of yet, I am not convinced of any.

I can appreciate this. I was pre-mil for a long time mostly because that was the ONLY view I had ever been taught.

My question for pre-mils is this - how much have you actually studied amil or postmil views and the Scriptural support?

 

[NIGHTMARE]

We're IN the "millennium" right now.

That seems to make the most sense. But the millennium must also be in heaven presently.

HOw does that make the most sense ELf????? THe millennium will start when Christ returns.....Has the 4 winds gathered the elcet from the 4 corners of the earth,,,,,of course not...

 

[veteran]

I'll just cover the parts that don't seem to be clear.

The wicked are resurrected also, per John 5:29, but those will still be subject to the "second death" as explained in that Rev.20 chapter. First death is of the flesh, second death is of the soul and resurrection body going into the lake of fire at the end of the thousand years. See Luke 12:4-5; the word "hell" in that verse is not Hades, it's Hinnom, about the valley of Hinnom of the OT. Hinnom is used as a symbol for the one time "lake of fire" event.

So, in a nut shell, the second death is hell?

If you'll notice in Rev.20:14, hell goes into the "lake of fire" at the end of the "thousand years". The word "hell' in the KJV New Testament can be one of three different Greek words; either haides, geena, or tartaroo. When the word "hell" is used in the sense of perishing, like perpetual fire, it's pointing to the "lake of fire" event at the end of Christ's Milennium, and that's the word geena (from Hebrew Hinnom). When it's the Greek word haides, it's referring to a holding place in the heavenly where the wicked are. It is tartaroo once, in 2 Pet.2:4 about the wicked angels being delivered into chains of darkness, put for the deepest part of Haides, like the bottomless pit. It's almost like a type of solitaire confinement in hell, for the OT idea of hell as an abode is like a prison in the heavenly dimension.

In Rev.20:14, the word "hell" is Greek haides, meaning the abode of the wicked in the heavenly. Haides goes into the "lake of fire" at the end of the "thousand years."

]Pre- Millennialism teaches that Jesus Christ returns to judge the world in Revelation 19 and sets up His Millennial reign in Revelation 20 correct? The Pre-Mills belief is, the Millennial period is, 1000 years of peace.
It reads, Revelation 19:19-21, And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh. <------so here is the judgment.

Then immediately following is:
Revelation 20:1-2 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
So now we have Satan bound for 1,000 years, according to Pre-Mill belief.

There is something wrong here already, do you see it?

When after the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released (for a short time) and he will deceive the nations. The problem is, these nations which Satan will deceive have already been Judged by Christ according to Rev 19:15. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.

This is an area which just does not fit with scripture. I think pre-mills fail here and Amills succeed, when they say Satan was bound at the cross.

Yes, I see it. Here's what it means. Notice particularly in Rev.19:20 what two things are cast into the lake of fire at Christ's coming when His Milennium reign begins. It's the "beast" and the "false prophet". This later Rev.20 verse also reveals the difference...

Rev 20:10
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
(KJV)

When Satan is cast into the "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's "thousand years" reign, the "beast" and the "false prophet" were already there. Also, Rev.20:4 shows us the working of the beast and false prophet is past, with Christ's saints having overcome. Christ's coming will bring 'a' judgment, but it's not the great white throne judgment that's for the end of His thousand years reign. The beast and false prophet working will never ever manifest again on earth after Christ comes to defeat it per Rev.19.

Just with the idea of judgment, there's actually two more after Christ's return. One is when Satan is released after the thousand years, and leads the nations of Gog and Magog up against the "camp of the saints" on earth, and God rains fire from Heaven down upon them to destroy them. That's when Satan is finally destroyed, and it happens upon the earth per Ezek.28:18. Then the rest of the nations are judged at the great white throne judgment.

The confusing part is getting it all to fit into Pre-millennialism.

Such terms can cause confusion. Isn't it better to heed how God layed it out in His Word, and let the chips fall where they may? You're very close on grasping this.

If all have been resurrected, the evil judged according to Revelation 19:19-21, and the saints reign with Christ in resurrected bodies for a thousand year period, then this presents another problem for the Pre-Mill belief.

Now everyone believes resurrected saints will not be involved with the revolt depicted in Revelation 20, I mean after a saint has been resurrected and glorified they cannot be deceived. Therefore those who revolt during the millennium must be individuals who have not been raised from the dead or who have not gone through the judgment when Christ returned to earth when the millennial period began. Who else could it possibly be?

Do you remember Peter said it's God's will that none should perish, but that all should come to repentance? Paul in Romans 11 quoted from Isaiah 29 about the "spirit of slumber" God has poured out upon some so they would be deceived and fall backwards, and stumble. The Scripture is very plain that our Heavenly Father Himself has done that upon the blinded, for His purposes. How then, can those be judged if God Himself blinded them? We were foretold about these in Isaiah 29, "...in that day the deaf shall hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness." And "They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine." (Isa.29:18 & 24)

Those are spiritually dead until they have their spiritual eyes and ears opened, and believe with their heart and minds by The Holy Spirit. It has nothing to do with an idea of being required to still have flesh bodies. It does have much to do with the condition of their souls in that time, which will still be subject to the "second death" later. What our Lord Jesus is showing us indirectly is, that some of the unjust will be converted to Him during the Milennium, and no longer be subject to the "second death". It means WE are not The Judge as to who lives forever and who perishes. Only Christ is Judge and will decide. This is why Paul said in Acts 24:15 it's his hope there will also be a resurrection of the unjust; not just so they will know the Truth, but so at least some of them might be saved also. The Apostle Paul obviously knew what that "thousand years" reign is for.

Even if these are people who came to faith in Christ during the tribulation period, having missed the "Rapture," survived the wrath of the antichrist, and as some teach, repopulate the earth during the Millennium, is highly problematic, despite reading and understand Revelation literally.

God's Word does not teach that kind of idea. There's only a one time return of our Lord Jesus written, and it's after the tribulation, on the 7th trump. That is the same "trump" of 1 Thess.4 and 1 Cor.15. So anyone alive on earth all the way to the end of the tribulation can still turn to Christ Jesus and become of the "first resurrection". Also note in Rev.7 about the 144,000. Those are the 'election' that are sealed by God, before the tribulation. The reason they're sealed is given in Rev.9.

When I read Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

I understand "the second death" as the death of the soul, eternal punishment. The first resurrection, I believe is, either spiritual birth (born again) John 5:24-25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. , or, going to be with Christ when one dies, 2 Cor 5:8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
Phil 1:23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;

Yes, but the other important part of the resurrection idea Paul taught in 1 Cor.15 is as all have borne the "image of the earthly", all shall also bear the "image of the heavenly". As in Adam all men die, so through Christ all men will be made alive (resurrected). But not ALL will have put on immortality at Christ return.

Look at the example of Lazarus and the rich man our Lord Jesus gave in Luke 16. Lazarus was carried by angels to the bosom of Abraham across one side of great gulf fixed border in Paradise, while the rich man died and found himself in hell (haides). Was the rich man in a flesh body? No, for Luke 16:22 shows the rich man died also and was buried. When we die, we are raised right then. That's Paul's message in 2 Cor.5 and 1 Cor.15, and even 1 Thess.4 about the asleep saints. The idea of their being 'asleep' is an expression to show they have eternal Life, and will never see death. This is why we often use such expressions about our loved ones that have died, saying they passed on, or they're with The Lord, etc. And that is very correct, for we aren't to even consider the idea of death for them anymore, not since our Lord Jesus died on the cross and became the Firstfruits of the resurrection.

In Rev.20 our Lord defined what the "second death" is. So is it death of the flesh body, or is it death of one's soul and spiritual body in the "lake of fire"? At Christ's coming, and the last trump change, the idea of flesh death will be no more. The only type of death remaining will be the lake of fire death, a literal spiritual type death to a heavenly body. How can we know that for sure?

What type of body is Satan and his angels in? They're not in a flesh body, nor will they ever be, for it's not written anywhere in God's Word that I know of. In the last verse of Isaiah 30, God revealed the lake of fire event is reserved for the king (the false king, i.e., Satan). And that it was ordained of old, an expression put for before this world. God said He has made it "...deep and large, the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of The LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doeth kindle it." (Isa.30:33) He compares it with Tophet, a place southeast of Jerusalem in the Valley of Hinnom, a place where evil child sacrifices were done, and dead bodies were buried or consumed. That's what the word 'geena' sometimes translated as "hell" in the NT is about. That's what the "second death" is, a destruction that is specifically prepared for Satan and his. And that's not about a flesh destruction, even though God used a physical location on earth as a symbol for it.