More on Redemption ! Secures unto us our regeneration

[electedbyHim]

How can they be condemned if Christ died for their sins?

I completely understand what you are saying.

I is almost as if you statement says we were born saved.

However I do not see any Biblical support for that.

According to Titus 3:3 and Ephesians 2, we were deceived and dead in our sin.

 

[Josheb]

Christ died for the sin of unbelief, so it cant condemn the elect, as no sin can, Christ took them away and reconciled them to God.

I agree that the elect are born by nature sinners, worthy of wrath,no better naturally than the non elect, but nevertheless, they are born as vessels of mercy Rom 9:23

23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory

So never born as the others vessels of wrath Rom 9:22

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction

I provided the information from scripture, and I provided the information from Calvin himself. I also explained how, theologically speaking, those God saves (the elect) are pulled from the pool of sinners that would otherwise be on their way to destruction.

cant be a vessel of mercy as a sinner and a vessel of wrath as a sinner at the same time.

Yes, but the Romans 9 text is being mishandled. The "clay" God made was good and sinless clay in the beginning (Gen. 1:31; Rom. 5:12) but the clay became adulterated, corrupted by sin. There was no more good and sinless clay after Genesis 3:7. It is from the entire pile of only-sinful clay that God fashioned some people for noble purposes and others to serve ignoble purposes. God did not actually have to do anything with the corrupted clay because it was corrupted and would, by nature of its corruption serve ignoble purpose inescapably. The is is the inherent but unstated presuppositional nature of the example given in Paul's narrative: Esau and Jacob. Both men were sinners and apart from God's grace would have both been destroyed in the fiery lake. Before Jacob was born, he was loved, but he was loved God knowing he was a sinner, going to be a sinner, going to be a particularly hard-headed, rebellious, bound-by-his-own particular sinfulness (imagine what it must be like growing up with the name "Grifter"), betraying his family, and getting conned himself).

Imagine finally realizing it was God's plane for all that to occur but he's still culpable for every choice and action he voluntarily made of his own sinful faculties.

Both men were sinfully sinners, and it was from that pool of two sinners God chose one for salvation and made him into an object of noble purpose...... before either man was born. God has mercy on who He has mercy, and it does not depend on how the man walks, or how the man wills, but on the will and purpose of God (alone).

As I pointed out HERE, the number one problem in the Cal v Arm debate is that we get our own doctrines incorrect. Getting the other guy's doctrine incorrect is the second biggest problem. The second may occur more frequently but that is (potentially) an easier problem to solve. Getting Cals to see Calvinism correctly can be much more difficult than getting Arms to see it. Part of the reason the "internal" straw man happens (as opposed to the "external" straw man of outsiders misrepresenting Calvin) happens is because either we or our teachers have read particular theologians, so we learn their version of Calvinism, not Calvin's Calvinism. It takes a certain amount of diverse reading to see that there exists a reasonable amount of diversity surrounding a core of orthodoxy. Reading Calvin, Pink, Knox, Spurgeon, Van Til, Vos, Sproul, Frame, White, Piper, and MacArthur is gonna do three things. It will lead the reader to understand they do not all teach identically and there is some diversity within our ranks, despite that diversity there is a solid core of shared foundational belief, and some of those guys held/hold some nutty views that are not consistent with the originator of our perspective. The reader will also learn some history and observe the evolution of thought in Calvinism (monergism). All the early Reformers on the monergist side of the equation were Augustinian. Even Arminius was Augustinian (most Arms with whom I've traded posts don't know that). This board separates Calvinism from Lutheranism, but the two theologies have a lot more in common than in difference (I'm kind of disappointed they aren't included).

The premise God made good people and bad people before any of them became sinners is more Pinkian than Calvin. Pink is on the deterministic end of the spectrum of Calvinism rather than the compatibilist end. Piper can be on that end, too (Ironically both men were Reformed Baptists, not Presbyterian, although I do not think a causal connection can be made between the denomination and their degree of determinism). There are hints of that in White and Frame but the more either guy is read the more consistency with Calvin is observed. And, as I said in the other thread, reading someone like the Dispensationalist-Reformed-soteriology MacArthur huge, irreconcilable conflict and inconsistencies are observed. Furthermore, Calvinism has evolved over the last five centuries because of rigorous, prayerful debate.

1 Corinthians 11:19
For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.

It's a good thing and the best internet forum discussions exemplify it. There is a fundamental difference between that kind of division and divisiveness (which is more a Gal. 5:19-21 condition that has nothing to do with Cal v Arm).

We must remember Calvin was Catholic and his early writings were intended solely to reform RCCism, not to start Protestantism. We now hold views that are different from Calvin's, such as his inherently RCC views of sacraments, the salvific nature of pedobaptism, and the tripartite view of man. That does not mean his monergistic soteriology was wrong. He was absolutely correct, and I completely affirm that point of view as the testimony of (correctly rendered) scripture.



At any rate, the salient point is that in Calvinism the inherent sinfulness of humanity, both individually and collectively, is affirmed, and it is from that pool that is 100% comprised of sinners that the elect are selected. It's not Calvinism to say God made good sinless people who are the elect and God made bad people who would never be elect. God made good people, they all became bad, and it's from the bad people God chose some to be saved..... and He decided that from eternity, before a single human had ever been formed. He ordained these things without causing any violence to the human will and not a fraction of a scintilla of it is dependent on the qualities, faculties, choices, or actions of the sinner being saved. Calvinist soteriology is 100% Theo-centric, not human-centric.

And when it comes to redemption securing regeneration (lest we forget and go far afield of this op ) both redemption (buying back the sinner) and the regeneration are accomplished by God without any consideration of the still-dead-in-sin, sinfully-enslaved, hostile-to-God, fleshly, God-denying, Christ-denying sinner's faculties, choices, or actions because all of it is tainted by sin and God wants nothing to do with it and has no need of any of it.

 

[brightfame52]

electedbyhim

I is almost as if you statement says we were born saved.

The elect are born already saved in the eternal phase of Salvation by their Eternal election in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4; 2 Tim 1:9 ; and they already born saved in the legal phase of Salvation by the Dear Cross/ Blood of Christ, when He purged them from their sins and sat down at the Right Hand of the Majesty on High Heb 1:3

3 who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

So when the elect are born into the world already eternally, and leagally saved, they are not yet vitally saved, because they are Spiritually Dead and Depraved, so then they must be vitally saved and thats performed by the work of the Spirit in the name of Christ, He regenerates them, quickens them Titus 3:4-6

. 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

This is when they are also given the Gifts of Faith and Repentance,

Now they await their Salvation the Glorified phase of Salvation Rom 13:11


And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

 

[brightfame52]

Josheb

I provided the information from scripture, and I provided the information from Calvin himself. I also explained how, theologically speaking, those God saves (the elect) are pulled from the pool of sinners that would otherwise be on their way to destruction.

Thats fine, I believe the elect when they are born dead depraved sinners, they are Vessels of Mercy, Christ has put their sins away, but the vessels of wrath who are born dead depraved sinners, Christ didn't put their sins away, they are under the curse of the law, and God is fitting them for destruction for their sins, and its Just.

 

[electedbyHim]

electedbyhim



The elect are born already saved in the eternal phase of Salvation by their Eternal election in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4; 2 Tim 1:9 ; and they already born saved in the legal phase of Salvation by the Dear Cross/ Blood of Christ, when He purged them from their sins and sat down at the Right Hand of the Majesty on High Heb 1:3

3 who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

So when the elect are born into the world already eternally, and leagally saved, they are not yet vitally saved, because they are Spiritually Dead and Depraved, so then they must be vitally saved and thats performed by the work of the Spirit in the name of Christ, He regenerates them, quickens them Titus 3:4-6

. 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

This is when they are also given the Gifts of Faith and Repentance,

Now they await their Salvation the Glorified phase of Salvation Rom 13:11


And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

I just do not think I can get onboard with that thought.

Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love,

That verse describes the purpose and resuslt of Him choosing us.

Romans 8:29 Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers;
Romans 8:30 and those whom He predestined, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified; and those whom He justified, He also glorified.


He foreknew, predestined and then called.

they already born saved in the legal phase of Salvation by the Dear Cross/ Blood of Christ, when He purged them from their sins and sat down at the Right Hand of the Majesty on High Heb 1:3

I have never read anything like this (at least I do not remember) in the Reformed faith.

Two things:
Are you talking about (and I may have my terms mixed up here) supralapsarianism and infralapsarianism?

Are you speaking of past, present and future salvation?

Philippians 1:5 because of your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now.
Philippians 1:6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

I am curious about this, what are your resources outside the Biblical texts you provided?

 

[Josheb]

electedbyhim

The elect are born already saved in the eternal phase of Salvation by their Eternal election in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4; 2 Tim 1:9.....

Neither verse cited states the elect are born already saved. The Ephesians text simply states we'd already been chosen, and the Timothy text states we were called and saved based on God purpose and grace. Neither verse states anything about being born saved.

So, my next question is asked seriously and sincerely: Why have you added to God's word things it does not actually state to defend a position that has already been shown to you using both scripture and Calvin to be an incorrect view of Calvinism? That's not a rhetorical question. Do you know why you did what you just did, and can you explain it to me?

 

[Josheb]

Josheb



Thats fine, I believe the elect when they are born dead depraved sinners, they are Vessels of Mercy, Christ has put their sins away, but the vessels of wrath who are born dead depraved sinners, Christ didn't put their sins away,

All of that is correct so think more substantively about this because it contradicts your own posts and affirms what I have posted.

...they are under the curse of the law, and God is fitting them for destruction for their sins, and its Just.

Only those who try to live by the law are under the curse of the law, especially if that is meant to be a reference to the Law of Moses. The law that applies to all is the law of sin and death (if you sin then you die) and - as has already been shown true - all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory and the wages of that is death. It is from the sinfully dying that God chose to save some.

You've created a false dichotomy between the two vessels, incorrectly thinking a sinner who would otherwise be a vessel of wrath cannot also be a vessel of mercy when, as Calvin explained, there's no need for mercy if one has not sinned. It is from those upon whom wrath would otherwise have come that God has chosen to have grace and mercy. The two are not mutually exclusive conditions..... among the elect. The Non-elect have only one condition, not both. Think of it as concentric circles with the inner circle being the elect and the outer circle being the non-elect. All have sinned. All would be subject to wrath, but only the elect have been shown mercy.

 

[electedbyHim]

Neither verse cited states the elect are born already saved. The Ephesians text simply states we'd already been chosen, and the Timothy text states we were called and saved based on God purpose and grace. Neither verse states anything about being born saved.

So, my next question is asked seriously and sincerely: Why have you added to God's word things it does not actually state to defend a position that has already been shown to you using both scripture and Calvin to be an incorrect view of Calvinism? That's not a rhetorical question. Do you know why you did what you just did, and can you explain it to me?

I am assuming this is to brightfame52.

 

[brightfame52]

Neither verse cited states the elect are born already saved. The Ephesians text simply states we'd already been chosen, and the Timothy text states we were called and saved based on God purpose and grace. Neither verse states anything about being born saved.

So, my next question is asked seriously and sincerely: Why have you added to God's word things it does not actually state to defend a position that has already been shown to you using both scripture and Calvin to be an incorrect view of Calvinism? That's not a rhetorical question. Do you know why you did what you just did, and can you explain it to me?

It says it to me, you asking me for my pov, now I cant help what something says or dont say to you.

 

[brightfame52]

Josheb

Only those who try to live by the law are under the curse of the law,

Everyone Christ didnt die for and redeem from the curse of the law as Per Gal 3:13 they are still debtors to do the whole law, which cant be done, so they are cursed .

You've created a false dichotomy between the two vessels, incorrectly thinking a sinner who would otherwise be a vessel of wrath cannot also be a vessel of mercy

They cant, no moreso that a goat can become Christ Sheep, or a non elect can become the elect, or a tare can become wheat. We enter this world as sinners belonging to either the vessels of mercy or the vessels of wrath.

 

[Josheb]

Josheb



Everyone Christ didnt die for and redeem from the curse of the law as Per Gal 3:13 they are still debtors to do the whole law, which cant be done, so they are cursed .



They cant, no moreso that a goat can become Christ Sheep, or a non elect can become the elect, or a tare can become wheat. We enter this world as sinners belonging to either the vessels of mercy or the vessels of wrath.

You may repeat your position in as many different wordings as you like but none of it will change the facts in evidence. Paul ascribed to himself the same condition and Calvin agreed.

 

[brightfame52]

He hath destroyed the works of the devil !

1 Jn 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The Lord Jesus Christ through His Death ALONE, hath destroyed the works of the devil, for those He died for. This was foretold eon's ago here Gen 3:15

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head [destroy], and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Yes the bruising of the serpent's [satan, the devil] head is exactly what Christ did accomplish Heb 2:14

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Now death has been abolished in regards to everyone Christ died for, and who is believing, and this is brought to light by the Gospel 2 Tim 1:9-10

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Those who are believing the Gospel of God's Grace, is evidence that Christ abolished Death on their behalf, that He destroyed the work of the devil regarding them. Now one of the symptoms of or effects of spiritual death and the devil's power over one, is Unbelief of the Gospel, for Unbelief is work of the Devil, scripture most certainly declares that 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god[Satan] of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The lost natural man just simply cannot believe the Gospel and why ? "the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not," this is one of the works of the devil ! So yes, unbelief of the Gospel of God's Sovereign Grace is not believed by all those that the work of the devil prevails against. See Also Matt 13:19 ! He by spiritual death blinds their minds in unbelief ! But how so to those whom Christ has died for, and consequently hath destroyed the works of the devil ? I must testify, that it is impossible for anyone Christ died for, should remain in unbelief ! They shall one Day Live by Faith after having the Gospel Reveal to them the Righteousness of God Rom 1:16-17. Folks for if that could happen, that one Christ died for lives their whole Life in unbelief of the Gospel, if that happens, then the work of the devil prevailed against one for whom Christ died, he prevailed over His Victorious Death that should have destroyed his works, yes if one soul that Christ died for, dies in unbelief or is found in Gospel Unbelief when He returns, like these will be 2 Thess 1:8, then Christ's Death did not destroy the works of the devil. But alas, it is a fact, all those who do die in unbelief, or are in unbelief when Christ Returns, then Christ did not die for them, simple as that ! 8

 

[brightfame52]

It is Finished !

All for whom Christ died, He has by His Death alone for them, perfectly satisfied God's Law and Justice for them, and this Truth remains steadfast regardless if they for whom He died, believe it not, for there not knowing it, not believing it, can undo what Christ hath done for God and them. The Unbelief of the Elect sinner for whom Christ died cannot overturn the satisfaction Christ's Death provided to God's Law and Justice, its been accomplished; For either Christ's Death has propitiated the Father once and for all, for all their sins or it has not. If it has [and it has] it would be contrary to the Justice of God to ever punish, charge any of those Christ died for with sin ! So Paul in understanding this Writes Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Who is Christ making Intercession for ? Quite simple, those He died for !

 

[brightfame52]

It is finished continued !

If God could punish those Christ died for, after punishing them once already in Christ, God would be Unjust to His Son Christ, and renege on The Covenant engagements ! God Justly punished Christ for all their sins. God in His Injustice would be punishing those Christ died for Twice, once in their Surety Substitute and now a Second Time in them. So all who Teach that the satisfaction the Death of Christ made for sinners that He died for, unto God's Law and Justice, on their behalf, and yet you teach many of the same shall perish in their sins [That Christ died for 1 Cor 15:3], you are openly before the world charging God with cold hearted injustice, making Him out to be a Unjust God. You are teaching that God has and will act contrary to His own Justice, for there is simply no way around it. A persons act of belief has absolutely nothing to do with what on Christ's Sacrifice can and has accomplished before the law and Justice of God, on their behalf [Which is the Eternal Forgiveness of their sins] or Redemption Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. The Eternal Redemption obtained was not for Him Personally, but for those He died for !

Now if He punishes any of the Us of Heb 9:12 for any one sin, to include unbelief, God has set aside the Satisfaction of His Son on their Behalf and becomes Unjust !

 

[brightfame52]

Perfected forever Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

When scripture states that by His One Offering [His Death or Blood] of Himself , those He died for are perfected forever, it means that they are Eternally Justified Perfectly before God's Law and Justice, based solely on Christ's sacrifice !

This is True because of Imputed Righteousness of Jesus Christ, His Righteousness is in behalf of all for whom He died ! His Righteousness laid to our Charge if He died for us is:

entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings

accurate, exact, or correct in every detail

As far as God's Law and Justice is concerned , those Christ died for are Isa 61:10

I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

Ps 132:9

Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy.

Who are His Priests ? These Rev 1:5-6

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
He made us that by His Love and Blood ! We have a perfect Righteousness by Christ and so have been perfected forever before God ! 8

 

[brightfame52]

Christ's One Offering Sanctified forever those He died for !

Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Yes, The writer is writing to Believers, however that [believing] is not how they became sanctified forever, which was solely by means of the Sacrifice or Offering of the Body of Jesus Christ, which means by His Death !

This is a Great Blessing of the Death of Christ, all for whom He died, once and for all, set them apart !

The word sanctified here is the greek word hagiazō and means:


to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow

2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God

a) consecrate things to God

b) dedicate people to God

3) to purify

a) to cleanse externally

b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin

c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Please understand that Christ's Death is also the cause of internal renewing of the soul or as Paul writes it Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Christ's Death alone is the Sole Cause of this renewing of the Holy Ghost, for that is why when He ascended on High upon completion of His Death Work, the Father gave Him the Holy Spirit to pour upon all them He died for and to ensure their experimental sanctification by the Spirit. Here is where He receives the Holy Ghost scripture says Acts 2:33

Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he [Christ] hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

This shed forth of the Holy Ghost is taught by Paul also Here Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Thats why those jews on the day of Pentecost asked for spiritual instruction from hearing Peter's sermon Acts 2, their asking that question showed that they had been renewed by the Holy Ghost, which Christ just had shed forth !

 

[brightfame52]

Christ's One Offering Sanctified forever those He died for !

Jesus says of those He died for Jn 17:19

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

This here Christ sanctifying Himself has to do with offering Himself in Death, and by this, He sanctifies those He died for, this is confirmation of Heb 10:10. Notice Jesus said that they may be sanctified in the Truth. So Part of Christ's effects of His Death, is that those whom He died for, should be sanctified through the Truth ! The Holy Spirit is given to Him for that Purpose, remember Acts 2:33, so each person Christ's died for, and prayed that they should be sanctified through the Truth, the Holy Spirit effects that 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Yes, the Holy Spirit performs this work, however its because of the merits of Christ's Death and how it sanctifies those He died for !

 

[brightfame52]

Christ's One Offering Sanctified forever those He died for !

So because Christ's Death alone has once and for all sanctified or set apart for God's Purpose all those he died for, as an evidence of that Truth, the Spirit of God gives New Life unto all of them unto Gospel Obedience or Belief of the Truth, or its called Sanctification of the Spirit unto belief of the Truth. This also answers the Redeemers prayer for all whom He died Jn 17:17-20

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The prep eis unto can mean into, so it could read:

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, into obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Now this sanctifying work of the Spirit unto Gospel obedience, is the FRUIT of Christ's Death, His One offering of Heb 10:10 ! All Persons Christ died for are automatically Sanctified [once and for all] by the Divine Purpose, even before actual childbirth as sinners, even as Jeremiah was Jer 1:5

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Yet, this did not mean that Jeremiah would not still be born a sinner, a child of wrath by nature as others, and not needing to be born again, but all that would occur by the Divine Purpose in due time so that he could fulfill his call as a prophet. However in God's Purpose, Jeremiah was always sanctified and set apart for God's Holy Purpose, his being born a sinner could not thwart that Purpose, neither for any other person Christ died for and set them apart for God's Holy Purpose in the Body of Christ. It is simply impossible for anyone Christ died for to not in time be sanctified by the Spirits Work unto obedience so they can perform the works God hath already ordained before that they should walk in Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 8

 

[brightfame52]

The forgiveness of sins !

Acts 13:38

Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

The word preached here is the greek word kataggellō and means:


to announce, declare, promulgate, make known

2) to proclaim publicly, publish

3) to denounce, report, betray

The word conveys the idea of making something known ! What is being made known or declared, or published to some is that they have by the grace of God, and through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, they have the forgiveness of all their sins ! Eph 1:7

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This is not an offer of forgiveness of sins that is contingent upon any conditions of men, not faith, not repentance, not water baptism, but solely upon the Blood of Christ shed on their behalf, the blood of the Covenant Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


The remission of sins is the same as the forgiveness of sins !

All those whom Christ died for, shed His Blood for have before the Justice of God, and His Holy Law, they have forgiveness of sins before they are even born into this world as sinners ! It has not been made known to them until they are born again from above and the Gospel of their Salvation is preached unto them !

 

[brightfame52]

The forgiveness of sins !

There was Legal forgiveness of the sins of the elect before the world began because of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace, when Christ was established as the Surety of the Elect or of the Sheep, and therefore no sin of theirs could be legally imputed to their Charge, but unto the charge of their Surety, so the Elect were forgiven of all Trespasses, before they actually Trespassed in Adam! When they Trespassed in Adam, God could not legally charge them with sin. David understood this Transaction and wrote Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

8