-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
jehovah's witness seldom will admit the tract society maybe wrong.
nor with they call us christians like he did.
he's was far liberal for them. i say this from being one and could tell.
no jw would practice martial arts(he does)
no jw in my day would go to college(this has changed).
even though i did martials arts when i was jw. i didnt tell too many as it was frowned upon.
It really is too bad and sad that it has come into your family. I have studied both Mormonism and JWs quite intensively and have had many discussions with both groups in the past. This was the first time in several years though.
I have all the resources I need--various books, numerous websites, NWT and BoM in hardcopy, old BoM versions in PDF, and everything BoM on my iPod Touch. Unfortunately I had to pay for their app but it was on sale just into the New Year and I wanted to be able to look things up quickly and be up to date on their teachings.
The question is why the mormons and Jehovah's witnesese are included among Christian denominations ? Are they Christians ?
They have an original religion invented by ...XX,
different from authentic cristianity
They have an original religion invented by ...XX,
different from authentic cristianity
M
mamre
Guest
Since ALL Christian churches in the world today (including the so called orthodox ones) were one way or another invented by a minister or a preacher, I am curious to know what do you consider "authentic Christianity?"
mamre
Boy, it's been a long time since we "crossed swords", mamre. Hope you're well. I know this wasn't directed toward me, but that's never stopped me before! :D
I'd say I'm not a fan of your chosen word "invented" being associated with the origin of churches or The Church. In any case, I would say Christianity would be in agreement with the Nicene Creed. I believe these are generally considered to be the main tenets of the faith.
M
mamre
Guest
Hello Mike,
So, then anything that subscribes to the Nicene Creed is considered Christian in your view?
However, it is very conspicuous the fact that you never said: "any religion that can be traced back to Christ is Christian."
Also very telling is the fact that the doctrines that emerged from the Nicene Conclave were not even given by God Himself, but were "decided" by a group of men who, by the way, were politically coerced to meet by a non-Christian Emperor.
Given the above, it is clear that anyone that professes to follow Christ's teachings is a Christian. And, that the Nicene Creed is also a loose statement of faith "based" on the interpretations of the teachings of Christ, as opposed to a definite set of doctrine "given" directly by Christ Himself.
Therefore, anyone that starts a church or an organization that professes to base itself on interpretations of the teachings of Christ as found in the Bible is Christian by definition.
It would be much more honest to say that some denominations are not "Nicenian" instead of not "Christians" since the "Nicenians" are also called Christians by virtue of them basing their beliefs on interpretations of Christ's teachings that were handed down to them.
The conclusion is then that some "Christian" (Nicenian Christians) discriminate other "Christians" on the base of their own interpreted creed.
However, reading the Bible, one will hardly find Jesus discriminating His followers. Even those that were "not following with them," but were preaching and casting demons in Christ's name no being of His fold, were told to be left alone and not be discriminated against.
Therefore, it stands to reason that the "Nicenians" are, in fact, less than Christians because they discriminate against other Christians trying to arrogate to themselves a privilege they don't really have, as their creed has the same type of origin that the other Christians denominations have. The Christian doctrine in the Bible never encourages discrimination.
On the other hand, if you would have said, "We are true Christians because we are the true Church that Christ organized in the meridian of time" then you would have that preeminence. But, since you "cannot" make such an assertion without erring, your flavor of Christianity is exactly the same as any other "invented" denomination. And I use invented because all of them including your Nicenian flavor were created by men and not by Christ.
mamre
M
mamre
Guest
Hi Jake,
Please read the 13 Articles of Faith of the LDS (Mormon) Church below. I have highlighted the belief related to the Bible belief for your convenience
Please, set the record straight: Mormons believe the content of the Bible to be true as long as its translations is correct.
While you are reading make a comparison of the articles with the Bible content and see if they don't agree with the scriptures. That way you will not be making incorrect statements about the Mormons and will be honest in your statements.
1.We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2.We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
3.We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4.We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5.We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6.We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7.We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8.We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9.We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10.We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11.We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12.We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13.We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
If you need more information about the Mormon church just ask, don't make incorrect assumptions and spread falsehood. You can also go to the Mormon.org if you need to know what the Mormons believe. As a Christian you have the obligation to tell the truth at all times, as that is what Christ did.
mamre
Mamre, I've been down this road with you, and you appear to be very skilled at ignoring that which doesn't line up with your theology. There is plenty of documentation to lend to the evidence that the Council of Nicea did NOT decide theology such as the Trinity. These were all in agreement prior to the meeting. They were lead only to come to an understanding of how to express the Truth they new.
In pointing to the statements in the Nicene Creed, we are pointing to Truths that were preached from Church beginnings.
What was Paul writing about to the Philippians? What had him so vexed? The Philippians were adopting false theology, and Paul was very clearly setting them straight. Separation from the Church began happening almost as soon as it was established.
Your unwillingness to regard these proofs is bound to make our discussion just as fruitless as it was before. You've stated that you believe in baptizing the dead. Where is this found in scripture? You believe Jesus was Created and not ever present, there is no eternal separation from God for those without salvation... The list goes on.
Before you proceed any further, I'd urge you to read and re-read the Statement of Faith and then read and re-read the Terms of Service which state:
"1 - This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act. Statement of Faith"
Mike
In pointing to the statements in the Nicene Creed, we are pointing to Truths that were preached from Church beginnings.
mamre said:
What was Paul writing about to the Philippians? What had him so vexed? The Philippians were adopting false theology, and Paul was very clearly setting them straight. Separation from the Church began happening almost as soon as it was established.
Your unwillingness to regard these proofs is bound to make our discussion just as fruitless as it was before. You've stated that you believe in baptizing the dead. Where is this found in scripture? You believe Jesus was Created and not ever present, there is no eternal separation from God for those without salvation... The list goes on.
Before you proceed any further, I'd urge you to read and re-read the Statement of Faith and then read and re-read the Terms of Service which state:
"1 - This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act. Statement of Faith"
Mike