Mormons and what they believe

[Tina]

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy Kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory. for ever and ever. Amen

Notice specifically the father part.

How does this prove that ALL of His creations are His "sons" ?
This is the prayer of Jesus to His Father in Heaven , which is our model prayers today.

 

[kenmaynard]

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy Kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory. for ever and ever. Amen

Notice specifically the father part.

How does this prove that ALL of His creations are His "sons" ?
This is the prayer of Jesus to His Father in Heaven , which is our model prayers today.

Because God created all things.

Because it says our father and not my father.

Really?

 

[Tina]

Because God created all things.

Because it says our father and not my father.

Really?

Just before that model prayer , In Matthew 6:8 Jesus said - “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him."

Who was He speaking to ? ... Who was His audience ?? ... Was it trees, animals and Lucifer ???

Now do you honestly think He was including trees, animals and Lucifer when He said "Our Father" ... ??

 

[Rick W]

[quote="Rick W":1s4s5edv]Then we are all children of God?

Yes we are.[/quote:1s4s5edv]

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
John 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[kenmaynard]

Because God created all things.

Because it says our father and not my father.

Really?

Just before that model prayer , In Matthew 6:8 Jesus said - “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him."

Who was He speaking to ? ... Who was His audience ?? ... Was it trees, animals and Lucifer ???

Now do you honestly think He was including trees, animals and Lucifer when He said "Our Father" ... ??

Doesn't matter who he was talking to. God created everything, and as the creator, is the Father of everything. It is a simple concept to understand.

 

[Rick W]

Doesn't matter who he was talking to. God created everything, and as the creator, is the Father of everything. It is a simple concept to understand.

Jesus Christ disagrees with the idea all are children of God.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

So does Paul.

Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God.

 

[kenmaynard]

Doesn't matter who he was talking to. God created everything, and as the creator, is the Father of everything. It is a simple concept to understand.

Jesus Christ disagrees with the idea all are children of God.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

So does Paul.

Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God.

I don't get your point. Are you saying god didn't create everything? In my experience those that do nothing but quote bible verses are only trying to deceive. I'm not saying that is what you are trying to do, but you seem to want to have some semantics argument about what God being the father means. What ever. Why God being the creator of everything is different than God being the father of everything I don't know. I just don't get why it matters.

 

[Rick W]

Not all are the children of God.


You state you were taught God created everything.
You use bible verses to support the idea all are children of God.
When someone else uses bible verses to show what Christ and Paul said on that idea it's deception.



I'm going to believe Jesus Christ and Paul that not all are the children of God.

 

[kenmaynard]

Not all are the children of God.


You state you were taught God created everything.
You use bible verses to support the idea all are children of God.
When someone else uses bible verses to show what Christ and Paul said on that idea it's deception.



I'm going to believe Jesus Christ and Paul that not all are the children of God.

Let's get to the crux of this issue. What are you trying to say? Either God created everything or he didn't. Are you saying God didn't create everything?

 

[Rick W]

God created the heavens and the earth, God created flesh, Adam.

We are children of the flesh, not children of God. We become children of God only after we are born again of the spirit. Then and only then are we children of God.

 

[kenmaynard]

God created the heavens and the earth, God created flesh, Adam.

We are children of the flesh, not children of God. We become children of God only after we are born again of the spirit. Then and only then are we children of God.

Ok I follow you, but this got started about Lucifer being a son of God. God created Lucifer. Lucifer is an angel and not flesh so Lucifer then is a son of God. Just a son who rebelled.

 

[Rick W]

Lucifer is not of the spirit of God. again, you're trying to short ciruit the basics of the sonship of God. We become children of God by being born again of the spirit of God. Lucifer is not of the spirit of God. As far as I can tell Lucifer never repented nor was born again. And quite frankly I don't believe Lucifer ever will be.

 

[kenmaynard]

Lucifer is not of the spirit of God. again, you're trying to short ciruit the basics of the sonship of God. We become children of God by being born again of the spirit of God. Lucifer is not of the spirit of God. As far as I can tell Lucifer never repented nor was born again. And quite frankly I don't believe Lucifer ever will be.

So before Lucifer fell he was a son of God, but after he fell he stopped being a son of God? I don't understand.

 

[jasoncran]

because luficer is longer the angel of worship but rather now the devil and satan(opposer of god) he has been an enemy of god, a child of god is only such upon REPENTANCE, Satan(lucifer) wont repent, it' s not mentioned in the bible at all , see the book the revalation.

jason

 

[westtexas]

Lucifer is not of the spirit of God. again, you're trying to short ciruit the basics of the sonship of God. We become children of God by being born again of the spirit of God. Lucifer is not of the spirit of God. As far as I can tell Lucifer never repented nor was born again. And quite frankly I don't believe Lucifer ever will be.

So before Lucifer fell he was a son of God, but after he fell he stopped being a son of God? I don't understand.

John 1:12--But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (KJV)

Lucifer is not a son of God

 

[Tina]

I don't get your point. Are you saying god didn't create everything? In my experience those that do nothing but quote bible verses are only trying to deceive. I'm not saying that is what you are trying to do, but you seem to want to have some semantics argument about what God being the father means. What ever. Why God being the creator of everything is different than God being the father of everything I don't know. I just don't get why it matters.

So before Lucifer fell he was a son of God, but after he fell he stopped being a son of God? I don't understand.

Actually I don't understand you, Ken. Are you not a Bible believing Christian ? Do you not believe that the Bible is the Word of God , or is there some other extra-biblical source you are using ? If we don't quote bible verses, what else are we supposed to quote to defend our beliefs ? The Bible says Lucifer is nothing more than a fallen angel. If you have been taught that he was God's "son" , surely God's Word the Bible would have clearly said so. God even called Adam and Eve His "creations" , not His "children" , so on what basis has your church taught you that Lucifer is God's "son" ? Based on speculations and insinuations ? Are you also a Mormon ? If not , what exactly is your religious affiliation ?

 

[kenmaynard]

I don't get your point. Are you saying god didn't create everything? In my experience those that do nothing but quote bible verses are only trying to deceive. I'm not saying that is what you are trying to do, but you seem to want to have some semantics argument about what God being the father means. What ever. Why God being the creator of everything is different than God being the father of everything I don't know. I just don't get why it matters.

So before Lucifer fell he was a son of God, but after he fell he stopped being a son of God? I don't understand.

Actually I don't understand you, Ken. Are you not a Bible believing Christian ? Do you not believe that the Bible is the Word of God , or is there some other extra-biblical source you are using ? If we don't quote bible verses, what else are we supposed to quote to defend our beliefs ? The Bible says Lucifer is nothing more than a fallen angel. If you have been taught that he was God's "son" , surely God's Word the Bible would have clearly said so. God even called Adam and Eve His "creations" , not His "children" , so on what basis has your church taught you that Lucifer is God's "son" ? Based on speculations and insinuations ? Are you also a Mormon ? If not , what exactly is your religious affiliation ?

I grew up going to Christian, and went to a bunch of churches. Mostly Pentecostal, but others as well. I used to worry about dying and going to hell and would pray every night. Or worry about being ready for the rapture. I memorized bible verses as a kid.

These days eh not so much. I don't pray or read the bible. I don't think the bible is the literal word of God. I think Jesus was a real person who suffered and died for the betterment of all humanity. I have just taken all the different philosophies of all the different denominations of Christianity I have learned about that seem to make sense to me. I figure since Jesus already died for all the sins of humanity well I don't have anything to worry about, and will simply try to be as good a person as I can. Everyone claims to have know the "truth". I don't buy it. There is no truth. In my experience those who relentlessly quote the bible do so to manipulate people.

As for the Satan being gods son. Well god crated him so I figure it counts. I don't see the need to parse the words creator/father.

 

[westtexas]

I don't pray or read the bible. I don't think the bible is the literal word of God. I think Jesus was a real person who suffered and died for the betterment of all humanity. I have just taken all the different philosophies of all the different denominations of Christianity I have learned about that seem to make sense to me. I figure since Jesus already died for all the sins of humanity well I don't have anything to worry about, and will simply try to be as good a person as I can.

:crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy

 

[Rick W]

kenmaynard,
Your belief system takes the core of Universal Reconciliation fleshed out with a religious smorgasbord.

 

[Ed the Ned]

These days eh not so much. I don't pray or read the bible. I don't think the bible is the literal word of God. I think Jesus was a real person who suffered and died for the betterment of all humanity. I have just taken all the different philosophies of all the different denominations of Christianity I have learned about that seem to make sense to me

This is what happens when you do not take the Bible as being the word of God. Your views become as what you have written "What makes sense to me" Your believes become tainted by wordly opinions and incorrect information from unreliable sources. Jesus died so you may have eternal life, he did not die for the betterment of humanity and if you read your bible and joined a bible believing church it will become clear to you. Kenmaynard I will be praying for you in the hope you will pick up your bible and read and pray for guidence. I am not judging you or pushing my personal beliefs on you, but the Bible is Gods word to us and should be read. We are told in the Bible to not be decieved, in order to not be decieved we need to know Gods Word. If we don't know Gods word how easy it is for the deceiver to deceive.