"Morning Consecration To Mary"

[BradtheImpaler]

Attention Thessalonian, Fulton Sheen's Warrior, and all other Catholic posters who apparently believe non-Catholics (who accuse them of worshipping Mary) are so lacking in intelligence that they are supposed to accept the explanation that Catholics are only praying to her for assistance and/or intercession to God, I offer the following prayer...

"My Queen, my Mother, I offer myself entirely to Thee
and to show my devotion to Thee, I offer Thee this day
my eyes, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without resolve
Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own, keep me,
guard me as thy property and possession. Amen"

What other elements would be necessary to regard the recepient of this prayer as DEITY? If a pagan who had never heard of Christianity or Catholicism heard someone praying this prayer, how could he come to any understanding OTHER than that it was a prayer to the God, or one of the gods, of the one praying?

 

[Fulton Sheen's Warrior]

+JMJ+

In order to gain a full understanding of this prayer, you would have to understand what true devotion to Mary is. A good book to read would be

True Devotion to Mary by St. Louis de Montfort

Montfort stresses in his work that devotion to Mary ultimately leads to Christ.

This is her one desire.

The Blessed Virgin Mary is my 'escort' in a sense. She leads me to Christ.


Honor to Mary is not end to a means

Honor to Mary is a means to an end which is a greater love for hes Son our Lord Jesus Christ.

Who has the arrogance to approach the throne of God without an escort?

 

[Henry]

Oh my !!! You have to understand that our devotion is to the LORD not to Mary who would be very upset to know there is a cult worshiping her.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

+JMJ+

In order to gain a full understanding of this prayer, you would have to understand what true devotion to Mary is. A good book to read would be

True Devotion to Mary by St. Louis de Montfort

Montfort stresses in his work that devotion to Mary ultimately leads to Christ.

This is her one desire.

The Blessed Virgin Mary is my 'escort' in a sense. She leads me to Christ

Why do you need to be "led" to Christ once He's IN you? ("Know ye not your own selves how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be rebrobates?" 2Cor.13:5)

Honor to Mary is not end to a means

Honor to Mary is a means to an end which is a greater love for hes Son our Lord Jesus Christ

Well, according to this prayer, there's not a heck of a lot left for Jesus after you've offered yourself "ENTIRELY to Thee (Mary)"

Who has the arrogance to approach the throne of God without an escort?

According to the New Testament, ALL believers in Christ...

"Seeing then that we have a great High Priest that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God...let us therefore COME BOLDLY UNTO THE THRONE OF GRACE" (He.4:13 & 16)

Hmmm...nothing there about Mary?

(Don't you long for the "good 'ol days" when the Church had the power to prevent the common man from reading the bible for themselves?)

 

[John the Baptist]

[Quote}: "Attention Thessalonian, Fulton Sheen's Warrior, and all other Catholic posters who apparently believe non-Catholics (who accuse them of worshipping Mary) are so lacking in intelligence that they are supposed to accept the explanation that Catholics are only praying to her for assistance and/or intercession to God, I offer the following prayer..."

______

Sure sounds like a 'setup' for personal attacks to me moderators? :wink:
Is the subject about Mary or about the poster? "... are so lacking in intelligence.. " Wow! Who, them or us??? First thing you know, we will see all these 'saints' as 123 moderators, huh?

"The Vatican said the Catholics could gain indulgence, or the pardon of temporal punishment of sin, by devoutly taking part in some of the Marian year activities..." --The Associated Press, February 17, 1987.
(my emphasis :roll
---John

 

[Fulton Sheen's Warrior]

+JMJ+

Why do you need to be "led" to Christ once He's IN you? ("Know ye not your own selves how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be rebrobates?" 2Cor.13:5)

Everybody needs to grow closer to Jesus Christ.
Devotion to Mary is a way to do this.

Well, according to this prayer, there's not a heck of a lot left for Jesus after you've offered yourself "ENTIRELY to Thee (Mary)"

We give of ouseleves to Mary because we know she will give us to her Son.
She can make us exceptable to Him.

Remember the wedding feast at Cana? Mary approached Jesus and said, 'They have no wine'. Jesus responded "What is that to me and thee? My hour has not yet come."

Mary then said to the waiters, "Whatsoever He shall say to you, do ye."
- John 2:3-5

Jesus had said to her that His time had not yet come.
So, she did what she does even now, she says to the waiters (Us), "Do whatever He tells you".

Interestingly enough, He does something about it.

This is a really big jump:

1.) Jesus says His time has not come

2.) Mary in her humility told the waiters to do whatever they are told by her Divine Son.

3.) Jesus then does something about the situation.

Why do you suppose that is?

According to the New Testament, ALL believers in Christ...

"Seeing then that we have a great High Priest that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God...let us therefore COME BOLDLY UNTO THE THRONE OF GRACE" (He.4:13 & 16)

Yes, this means it is possible and good to appraoch the throne of grace.
Is their anything wrong with approaching the throne with humility?

Oh my !!! You have to understand that our devotion is to the LORD not to Mary who would be very upset to know there is a cult worshiping her.

Good thing their isn't.




I don't think our Lord would have a problem with us honoring someone He honored.

 

[notapseudonym]

But reading the book is entirely out of the question, something might be learned.

Looking at the rest of the Catholic beliefs, that the non Catholics seem to have a better understanding of than Catholics, it would seem that this Marian "worship" might seem reasonable. Excuse my sarcasim.

We Catholics hold Mary as our Queen and our Mother. Now, anyone who is "so lacking in intellegence" that they would pray to Mary knows that no Queen is greater than her King. In the Middle Ages the queen was often the mother of the king. Upon the mother's death the wife of the king became queen. Mary is the mother of Christ. Christ is her King. It would seem to follow that Mary would be His Queen. And we His people would hold not only Him as King, but her as queen.

Another custom in the Middle ages was for a kinght to pledge his service to a lady. The knights, through their service to ladies, would serve the king. As Catholics this is what we do. We are knights fighting for Christ, striving to further His kingdom. We pledge our service to Mary so that we may serve our Lord. Please remeber that Christ is MAry's King and no Queen is above her king. We are knights who have sworn alledgence to Mary and since she is under Christ, Christ is sworn our alledgence as well.

 

[Vic C.]

Who has the arrogance to approach the throne of God without an escort?

We have ONE escort, ONE mediator... His name is Jesus. Does John 14:6 mean nothing anymore? :-?

Does the torn veil at Christs' death on the Cross mean nothing either?

May says, "Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it." (John 2:5)

I don't recall Jesus ever commanding us to call His mother "Queen". He never told us to get to Him, we must go through her.


I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[Fulton Sheen's Warrior]

+JMJ+

Yes, Jesus is the only mediator between man and the Father.

Is it wrong to have a mediator between us and Jesus?

I mean come on guys think about it. There is no way Mary was just another woman.

She is the only (non divine) person to have direct familial relationship with the Trinity!

Daughter of the Father

Spouse to the Holy Spirit

Mother of the Son

 

[John the Baptist]

+JMJ+

Yes, Jesus is the only mediator between man and the Father.

Is it wrong to have a mediator between us and Jesus?

I mean come on guys think about it. There is no way Mary was just another woman.

She is the only (non divine) person to have direct familial relationship with the Trinity!

Daughter of the Father

Spouse to the Holy Spirit

Mother of the Son

_________

:

 

[Vic C.]

^ Hi N.B. ! ^ :-D

Yes, Jesus is the only mediator between man and the Father.

More than happy to agree with you there. There is one of our common boned, but are you really bonded to that belief?

Is it wrong to have a mediator between us and Jesus?

I believe it is, or maybe not, will explain at the end of post. John 14;6 is my defense, without looking up add'l scripture. I'm lazy and have a sinus headache. Nice combo, heh?

I mean come on guys think about it. There is no way Mary was just another woman.

Agreed. I do question though, how much we are to esteem her. How high do we take our regard for her? First and foremost, where is the Scriptual instructions to do so?

She is the only (non divine) person to have direct familial relationship with the Trinity!

I believe all those at the baptism of Jesus had a similiar experience, not the same, but similiar non the less.

Besides, is there scripture showing us she actually spoke of heard from The Father?

Now let me say something: I'm not saying whether praying, esteeming, etc. to Mary is right or wrong, I do sometimes feel it is wasted prayer though. I just would feel more comfortable with all this if it was more Biblical.

Peace,
Vic

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Why do you need to be "led" to Christ once He's IN you? ("Know ye not your own selves how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be rebrobates?" 2Cor.13:5)

Everybody needs to grow closer to Jesus Christ.
Devotion to Mary is a way to do this

I would think devotion to CHRIST would be the way to do this?

Well, according to this prayer, there's not a heck of a lot left for Jesus after you've offered yourself "ENTIRELY to Thee (Mary)"

We give of ouseleves to Mary because we know she will give us to her Son.
She can make us exceptable to Him

But the NT expressly teaches that, by faith in Christ, you ARE made acceptable to Christ and God. In fact, that is the central message of the NT!
Why is what God said not good enough for you? Your church's desire for a female goddess has elevated Mary to a position and function that subverts the whole gospel.

Remember the wedding feast at Cana? Mary approached Jesus and said, 'They have no wine'. Jesus responded "What is that to me and thee? My hour has not yet come."

Mary then said to the waiters, "Whatsoever He shall say to you, do ye."
- John 2:3-5

Jesus had said to her that His time had not yet come.
So, she did what she does even now, she says to the waiters (Us), "Do whatever He tells you".

Interestingly enough, He does something about it.

This is a really big jump:

1.) Jesus says His time has not come

2.) Mary in her humility told the waiters to do whatever they are told by her Divine Son.

3.) Jesus then does something about the situation.

Why do you suppose that is?

Man, you are really reaching. What you need is a scripture that clearly states that Mary's role in heaven is to bring us closer to Christ. Something like...

"There is one mediator between God and man, the man, Christ Jesus - and one mediator between man and Jesus, the woman, Mary"

I guess you know the 2nd part if that verse is made up.

According to the New Testament, ALL believers in Christ...

"Seeing then that we have a great High Priest that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God...let us therefore COME BOLDLY UNTO THE THRONE OF GRACE" (He.4:13 & 16)

Yes, this means it is possible and good to appraoch the throne of grace.
Is their anything wrong with approaching the throne with humility?

What's "humility" got to do with it? Don't skirt the subject. You said we need to approach Christ through Mary. There's nothing about that in the passage. No such instruction.

I don't think our Lord would have a problem with us honoring someone He honored.

The prayer I quoted goes FAR beyond "honor" and you know it. I'm giving you a chance to be honest before God and man, Warrior - admit it

 

[Heidi]

Attention Thessalonian, Fulton Sheen's Warrior, and all other Catholic posters who apparently believe non-Catholics (who accuse them of worshipping Mary) are so lacking in intelligence that they are supposed to accept the explanation that Catholics are only praying to her for assistance and/or intercession to God, I offer the following prayer...

"My Queen, my Mother, I offer myself entirely to Thee
and to show my devotion to Thee, I offer Thee this day
my eyes, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without resolve
Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own, keep me,
guard me as thy property and possession. Amen"

What other elements would be necessary to regard the recepient of this prayer as DEITY? If a pagan who had never heard of Christianity or Catholicism heard someone praying this prayer, how could he come to any understanding OTHER than that it was a prayer to the God, or one of the gods, of the one praying?

Catholics worship tradition no matter what it says even though Jesus and Paul tell us not to do that. So since their gods are tradition, the pope and Mary, they worship different gods than Christians do this they will always disagree with Christians.

 

[ttg]

Heidi,

If you want to tell someone what a Catholic does or believes and make an impression, quote from the CCC. Then maybe your words will carry some weight. You can start your search here:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

Please post the chapters, articles and paragraphs which say I worship tradition, Mary and the Pope as gods.

Unless you can back up your claims, your words are meaningless bibbish.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Heidi,

If you want to tell someone what a Catholic does or believes and make an impression, quote from the CCC. Then maybe your words will carry some weight. You can start your search here:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

Please post the chapters, articles and paragraphs which say I worship tradition, Mary and the Pope as gods.

Unless you can back up your claims, your words are meaningless bibbish.

So if the Catholic Church denies, in it's articles, that it leads it's followers to worship Mary and afford her a position and function reseved for Jesus or God alone, then that necessarily means, in truth, they don't? All a false teacher has to do is deny they are a false teacher and we should accept that?

Let's see another excerpt from a prayer that Catholics are encouraged to pray ("Prayer To Mary Mother Of Compassion" by St. Ephrem of Edessa)

"O Virgin most pure, wholly unspotted, O Mary, Mother of God, Queen of the universe, you are above all saints, the hope of the elect and the joy of the blessed. IT IS YOU WHO HAVE RECONCILED US WITH GOD..."

Here's another one ("Thanksgiving and Prayer To Mary")...

"Take our offering, grant us our requests, obtain pardon for what we fear, FOR YOU ARE THE SOLE HOPE OF SINNERS..."

I reiterate my initial statement on this thread, that if you expect me or anyone else to believe that what the Catholic Church influences it's members to do with Mary is merely to "honor" her, then you must think we are complete idiots :bday:

Where is the honest Catholic who will step forward and admit the truth? Hey, I think everyone should be allowed to believe whatever they want, but what gnaws at me is when people deny they believe something which they obviously DO believe.

 

[Fulton Sheen's Warrior]

+JMJ+

Let's see another excerpt from a prayer that Catholics are encouraged to pray ("Prayer To Mary Mother Of Compassion" by St. Ephrem of Edessa)

Mary isn't the Mother of compassion Himself?

"O Virgin most pure, wholly unspotted, O Mary, Mother of God, Queen of the universe, you are above all saints, the hope of the elect and the joy of the blessed. IT IS YOU WHO HAVE RECONCILED US WITH GOD..."

Would you mind giving me source for this prayer? Thankyou.

"Take our offering, grant us our requests, obtain pardon for what we fear, FOR YOU ARE THE SOLE HOPE OF SINNERS..."

Yes, which is to say that her requests are always heard and honored by her Son.

I reiterate my initial statement on this thread, that if you expect me or anyone else to believe that what the Catholic Church influences it's members to do with Mary is merely to "honor" her, then you must think we are complete idiots

What I find interesting is that you have not yet found a Church document.

Can't find one can you? :wink:

You pulled out prayers (that I personally have never heard before) and you present them as though we hold them infallible.

Where is the honest Catholic who will step forward and admit the truth?

We are here. We are waiting for a Protestant to do the same.

Hey, I think everyone should be allowed to believe whatever they want

We are agreed here.

but what gnaws at me is when people deny they believe something which they obviously DO believe.

I believe what the Church teaches. The Church does not teach Mary worship.

 

[ttg]

Scriptural basis for honoring Mary:


I am the Lord your God: You shall not have strange Gods before me.

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

Remember to keep holy the Lord’s Day.

Honor your father and mother.

You shall not kill.

You shall not commit adultery.

You shall not steal.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.

You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

 

[John the Baptist]

Heidi,

If you want to tell someone what a Catholic does or believes and make an impression, quote from the CCC. Then maybe your words will carry some weight. You can start your search here:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

Please post the chapters, articles and paragraphs which say I worship tradition, Mary and the Pope as gods.

Unless you can back up your claims, your words are meaningless bibbish.

So if the Catholic Church denies, in it's articles, that it leads it's followers to worship Mary and afford her a position and function reseved for Jesus or God alone, then that necessarily means, in truth, they don't? All a false teacher has to do is deny they are a false teacher and we should accept that?

Let's see another excerpt from a prayer that Catholics are encouraged to pray ("Prayer To Mary Mother Of Compassion" by St. Ephrem of Edessa)

"O Virgin most pure, wholly unspotted, O Mary, Mother of God, Queen of the universe, you are above all saints, the hope of the elect and the joy of the blessed. IT IS YOU WHO HAVE RECONCILED US WITH GOD..."

Here's another one ("Thanksgiving and Prayer To Mary")...

"Take our offering, grant us our requests, obtain pardon for what we fear, FOR YOU ARE THE SOLE HOPE OF SINNERS..."

I reiterate my initial statement on this thread, that if you expect me or anyone else to believe that what the Catholic Church influences it's members to do with Mary is merely to "honor" her, then you must think we are complete idiots :bday:

Where is the honest Catholic who will step forward and admit the truth? Hey, I think everyone should be allowed to believe whatever they want, but what gnaws at me is when people deny they believe something which they obviously DO believe.

Very good insight. Is this 'gnawing' not caused from an Jesuit tactic? 2 corinthians 4:2 Why not put this over on the 'Tradition' thread also?
--John

 

[ttg]

John 19: 25-27

25Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son," 27and to the disciple, "Here is your mother." From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.

You can take Mary into your home, or you can close the door in her face and ridicule those who accept her. The choice is yours.

 

[Fulton Sheen's Warrior]

+JMJ+

You can take Mary into your home, or you can close the door in her face and ridicule those who accept her. The choice is yours.

Well put.

Very good insight. Is this 'gnawing' not caused from an Jesuit tactic? 2 corinthians 4:2 Why not put this over on the 'Tradition' thread also?
--John

...You speak of the Jesuits allot. Where do you get your information?
Jack Chick? Alexander Hislop? Lorraine Boettner?