Muslim Comment Gets Jaun Williams Fired

[Lewis]

Yes Mike, I think the same way as Williams, no relation, because my last name is Williams as well. Now if I was getting on a plane and I saw a Muslim in full garb I am going to have a problem with that. And as for 911 that hurt the whole country, and like Mike I am to the right, and I do not see things the way you do Mujahid.

 

[Mike]

Juan may honestly feel that way, and its understandable. But does it make it right? Now juan wasnt directly invovled in any terrorist attacks - he feels this way because of the overwhelming coverage of such attacks. This has imbued a deep pschological prejudice towrds Muslims - is it his fault? I dont know, does he try and overcome such prejudices? Or does he just indulge them and vindicate them in his mind? Its not quite accurate to say people who feel this way are "hateful", because their prejudice doesnt stem from a conciuos level. Is my Grandmother hateful when she assumes every black man in town is criminal? she doesnt hate blacks, she hates criminals, and in her mind, most blacks are criminals? Most people see this view as ignorant and shun it. But then they see a guy in thobe and a kufi walking down the street and they do the same thing - they dont hate Muslims, they hate terrorists, and in their mind most Muslims are terrorists.

Its no different than any other form of prejudice - I experience it all the time. I receive dirty looks when I where Islamic garb in public, Ive received threats from passing motorists, Ive been told to "Go Home Sand N****r", Ive had to physicaly defend a Muslim sister as two guys jumped out of lifted pick-up truck with a giant flag waving in the bed, as they pushed her, taunted her, and tryed to rip off her hijab. I wasnt in Islamic garb at the time, and I had to physicaly fight the guys in defense of this girls honor, who was singled out because she was identifying herself, first and foremost as a Muslim. Just like in the example of "The Birth of A Nation" when woodrow wilson screened it his comment was "Its sad because its so true" - many people in the US have this same attitude towrds Muslims, they hear Juan Williams say he gets nervous, an they say, its sad, because all terrorists are Muslim.

Apples and oranges, MA.

I simply don't believe anyone can overstate the impact those events had on America's concern about Muslim terrorists. "The overwhelming coverage of such attacks"??? I hope you're not implying that the media sensationalized one of the most horrific events on U.S. soil in our history! How can this NOT have an impact on Americans with U.S. intelligence disrupting subsequent attacks and video tapes released with declarations of further incidents to come?

To compare how this strikes fear in the minds of Americans when they see Muslims on an airplane to them actually acting on it (yelling obscenities and actually physically attacking a Muslim-American) is unfair. They don't have much in common at all. There's a stark difference between having a fear and proactively acting aggressively on it.

You're comparing a feeling to an action.

 

[Mike]

and its because of people like Lewis, who cant distinguish fact from fear.

And it's because of people like the terrorists that many of us can't distinguish fact from fear. It goes both ways.

Besides an instant crime of passion, feelings always come before action. The vast majority of people don't act upon feelings, so you can't start legislating feelings. Everyone has them, but few act upon them. I have a strong aversion to homosexuality. The thought's never crossed my mind to act upon that aversion.

This tenuous relationship between Muslims and the rest of America will not die down until the Muslims police themselves more than they do and cleanse themselves of this retched component. You're saying Al Qaeda uses American distrust for Muslims as a reason to prompt them into action?? The obvious response to that is that Al Qaeda does a pretty good job of creating that response themselves for non-Islamic Americans. You know, or at least I'd assume you know, that certain corrupt Islamic governments are harboring and aiding Al Qaeda. Even if it's not entire governments, they get support from groups within them.

How can we distinguish with a high level of confidence where our trust is warranted, and where it is being used for evil? How can Juan Williams or anyone else with this bias (which was brought on by Muslims) distinguish one from the other? Personally, I would love to know the answer to that question, because I would desperately love to rid myself of this mistrust and know that the Muslim I'm talking to detests what Al Qaeda stands for. :help

 

[Lewis]

Mujahid as we speak Osama bin Laden & crew is trying to cook up something else to do to us, and then we were going to get slapped in the face by a Mosque being built at ground zero, I don't think so, you also said people like me, I don't have a problem with you saying that.

 

[jasoncran]

What you say, here is significant to a point.

I identify myself as right-wing
I watch Fox News (not the prime-time sensationalism)
I don't listen to NPR

Why does it surprise you that conservatives wouldn't listen to liberal programming?

I also wince when I hear someone start a sentence by saying, "I'm not a biggot, but..." There is a very high probability that that the next words that come out of the person's mouth are tainted.

But then you say something odd...



MA, obviously, you have not allowed yourself to emotionally connect with the terror Americans experience on 911 or in follow-up attempts like the shoe-bomber. Do we need to have actually been on the plane to be emotionally scarred???

This is a typical example of liberals bowing to pressure that didn't need to be there in the first place. Honestly, I've seen a number of spokespeople from the Muslim community that say Williams should get his job back. NPR, true to its liberal platform made this decision. That's fine. They can decide themselves out of federal funding if they want to. And they'll last as long as Gore's liberal response to conservative talk radio.

We had a few schools in Michigan that had Native American mascots. Eastern Michigan University changed their mascot from the Hurons (a native American tribe) to the Eagles. Why? Did this stem from complaints from the tribe? Of course not. It came from overzealous liberals. The Hurons actually fought for them to keep it; considered it respectful to be associated with an institution of higher learning. They tried the same thing with Central Michigan and its Chippewa mascot, but CMU didn't back down as EMU did.

I don't blame Williams for thinking what he said. He obviously would have been better served not to say it out loud, but he's saying what a lot of people are thinking. And if you don't understand how an American can get any sense of concern when someone in Muslim garb boards an airplane, you've really managed to separate yourself from the horror of 911.

mike, many a consertives that i have talked to actually either used to or do listen npr here.

i will, i have no problems listen to the other side so that when they foul up. i can hammer then with their own words.
btw the npr station has mocked christians, and also the jews.

but we never heard of that now did we, and williams was the only black person broadcasting so i hear.

 

[jasoncran]

ma. may i ask you this?

if you went to the west bank and saw an isreali soldier with my last name,and he killed a friend of yours for no reason, then you come to america and hear that i have that same name. what would be your first thought

i'll tell you. that's the same name as the guy who killed my friend, you may not assume that i'm related or have any connection but that is what you would do till you controlled it or was told otherwise.

and i will listen npr to verify what you say,

what are the shows, as my time to listen to npr is limited?

 

[Mike]

I think one way to overcome this fear, which can and has morphed into more than just fear, is to get to know your neighbor whose Muslim

I wish it were that easy. The problem is, we've had cases right in the Detroit area of Muslims who were by all accounts, upstanding citizens of America. They owned businesses whose customers were of the opinion that they had a friendship with a peace-loving person who only wanted to prosper like other Americans. And then they wind up in the news because links to terrorist groups have been identified. I searched but couldn't find the articles I have in mind, but here's an example:

Act! for America - Michigan: Muslim Indicted in Case Linked to Holy Land Foundation

"Masfaka was interviewed by the FBI at his Dearborn home in 2003, when he allegedly said he worked for the Holy Land Foundation for eight months in 1997 and 1998, but only as a singer in a band that worked fund-raising events for the Holy Land Foundation, the indictment alleges."

It's people such as this that keeps me on guard. I may believe I can trust them, but always in the back of my mind is "Am I being used to establish an identity of a peace-loving Muslim-American?" Like I said, I would very much want to.

 

[Elijah674]

your right lewis - keep up the fear, dont distinguish between OBL and the the Muslim woman with her baby or the Muslim guy like me next door - they chose Islam, so they deserve your hate - if they dont like it, they acn go home, or renounce Islam.

Hi, as with ALL FORUMS, it is the person of the teaching that is attacked in[most instances] rather than false theology, huh?

We teach to LOVE the person and hate what?2

--Elijah

 

[theLords]

"Us vs them" mentality - There are millions of American born Muslims who are beggining to feel like men with no country. And its this prejudice held by many that drives this feeling. And, in fact, it helps bin laden and his bunch - on Al jazeerah last week Al Qaeda let out a tape that basicly said "All you American Muslims, the American people hate you, why dont fight them" - and Im sure it reached some young uneducated American Muslim somwhere, who said, "you know they're right, Americans dont want me".

This isn't a Muslim only issue. Go talk to any Mexican or Hispanic immigrant. You'll find that they feel the same exact way. And all they do is jump the border illegally.

This shows that it's not just "flesh and blood" that we're up against, but something much more sinister

 

[jasoncran]

I wish it were that easy. The problem is, we've had cases right in the Detroit area of Muslims who were by all accounts, upstanding citizens of America. They owned businesses whose customers were of the opinion that they had a friendship with a peace-loving person who only wanted to prosper like other Americans. And then they wind up in the news because links to terrorist groups have been identified. I searched but couldn't find the articles I have in mind, but here's an example:

Act! for America - Michigan: Muslim Indicted in Case Linked to Holy Land Foundation

"Masfaka was interviewed by the FBI at his Dearborn home in 2003, when he allegedly said he worked for the Holy Land Foundation for eight months in 1997 and 1998, but only as a singer in a band that worked fund-raising events for the Holy Land Foundation, the indictment alleges."

It's people such as this that keeps me on guard. I may believe I can trust them, but always in the back of my mind is "Am I being used to establish an identity of a peace-loving Muslim-American?" Like I said, I would very much want to.

they did that to us in afghanistan , we fired a terp for spying. he wasnt rude or mean , in fact i talked to him alot , on islam, science, jesus. but he was a spy.

 

[jasoncran]

you think that you could. when has seen that as it takes along time to heal.

even this day that its hard if i saw a muslim in manjammy and in full garb no to take note and observe and be mindful.

over there once i glanced and i saw no immediate threat i used the ooda cycle, but here that sticks out and i will observe alot more. not for fear, shere habit as things that are unusual will catch my eye, once i determine that that muslim isnt a threat , i wont be as mindful.

i went through that with muslims down the road at the musallah.

and will for quite some time.

the war hasnt left me, but i the war.

the same could be said with the americans over 9-11. that was the point.

i will listen npr when i can. but it will be hard. i wanted to look for exact interviews and who's so that i could listen online.

its not cranson its cranman.

 

[Lewis]

your right lewis - keep up the fear, dont distinguish between OBL and the the Muslim woman with her baby or the Muslim guy like me next door - they chose Islam, so they deserve your hate - if they dont like it, they acn go home, or renounce Islam.

I do not hate you all, I have about 10 family members who Muslim, It is just many of them I do not trust, you all operate by another spirit. One of my band members is a Muslim, but we will not discuss our faiths, because a fight might break out.

 

[jasoncran]

I understand where your coming from - and of all the people in this discussion, your suspicions of Muslims are the most warranted - so its even more laudible that you dont hold many of the same views as Americans who havent experienced what you have. Its also notable that the reason you dont hold those views as strongly is because your aware of them, and you activley work to get rid of them.

Let me be clear - Im not saying that people should trust every Muslim, but by educating ones self on modern internal Islamic polemics - one will be able to see the good Muslims from the bad ones - they can overcome their irrational fear by educating and enlightening oneself - fear like this stems from the unknown - not knowing which Muslim is a threat and which is not, because they all look alike and have the basic same beliefs. You can overcome your fear and in the process become more vigilant and thus more effective by educating oneself.

If I hear any Interviews regarding Muslims and Terrorism Ill PM you, jason, with a link.

hate destroys the soul. a nam vet told that i musnt hate the enemy after coming home for good. it will help you heal much better, and it's that the truth.

i dont want to distrust nor do i like games with persons. either we trust them or dont.

i deal with each muslim differently. this war wasnt my first rodeo with muslims. just the most intense.

noi muslims or i think sunni muslims at ft.polk, la hated me cause of my jewish name.

 

[jasoncran]

cranman? dosent even sound jewish to me - I know Muslim named Stein, he gets some flack, some jocular ribbing, getting called a yahud and what not, but I dont know anyone who would hate a guy for his name.

it isnt meant to be . when the kremehoy came here on ellis island that name caused trouble as no one would hire them, in the 1890's nyc was quite hard on jews. that is why its changed.

lol, and isreal immigrant to the us,and palenstian hater(i told him why i dont hate arabs) before i could shake hands said i see that you are jewish , and asked where i was from.
he hated arabs as one killed his sister in front him when he was a boy and also lost others to them.

the typical thinking the only good arab is a dead one. that is what he thought of them. sad that he hasnt learn to forgive.
his name is very biblilical but i wont post that here.

yahud is arabic for jew, i hope that is the word for that.

 

[jasoncran]

these were black muslims that did that too me and american

the irony is that a cambodian muslim in the army had no issue with my heritage. and he married a former protestant while they were in the army together. if i recall she converted to islam. they had a child last i checked(been 16 yrs ago and lost contact).
she was white, and he quite asian in apperance.

he got me to at least tolerate chinese food and also kimchee(rotten cabbage).i love the latter when its not spicy.

 

[jasoncran]

Yeah, I think the most racist segment of America is probaly African americans (not all of course) NOI guys are way out there any ways - they beleive God is a mad scientist in a spaceship above the earth - so they might fall into the category of mentally disabled, their whole religion is based on racism.

i noticed as elijah mohammed taught that and a friend of mine was one those.

every time i watched the orginal movie stargate i think of that noi thing

praise be to god. i almost became a muslim then but the noi and its hate kept me away.

 

[theLords]

its not cranson its cranman.

that must have been fun for your friends in high school "yo cranman!" hahaha.

 

[jasoncran]

that must have been fun for your friends in high school "yo cranman!" hahaha.

i did get that but these are the best
crankman
crashman
cranberry( i dont own ocean spray)
craneman
granman

i have so many that i forget them till i hear those again

it will feel wierd not being called by my last name at all when i retire from the guard.
the irony is that the afghanis pronounced right the first time when they heard it.(some knew the alphabet and would try to say it)

 

[theLords]

i have a friend like that that goes by his last name. one time i forgot his first name and was extremely confused when others referred to him by it.

do your civilian friends call you by your last name?

 

[jasoncran]

i have a friend like that that goes by his last name. one time i forgot his first name and was extremely confused when others referred to him by it.

do your civilian friends call you by your last name?

sometimes.

i usually dont differient as much on civy friends. that was and is primary indenious to the active side.

in the guard we are less military and more civilain

i tend to be military here alot as i often talk about my experciences or the war and so on.

though i dont cross the nco-em line when i talk to the guard guys in my plattoon.