"Muslims, Christians, and Jesus" by Carl Medearis

[Navigator]

I've recently become very interested in the Muslim faith. Not necessary because of a wish to convert or anything like that, but simply, there are 1.4 billion people in this world practicing this religion and I had no idea what the basic beliefs of it were. In my "research" it's amazing how truly similar the two faiths (Islam and Christianity) truly are, despite most of our society's stereotypical view of Muslims as terrorists. It truly is sad that this stereotype has been developed, but like my pastor said during his September 11th church service this past year; It's time for us Christians to "wage war with love" on the Muslims, not hate.

I recommend the book to anybody. Has anyone here read it by chance??

 

[Gazelle]

No, I haven't read this book. If it is presenting what you say, then I probably won't read it. I have read the q'oran though, in English.

I find the movement to respect the muslim faith (not talking about people here) is a work of the devil. There are ministers so pushing this, and have begun to push the religion of Chrislam in the USA.

Be careful little eyes what you read.

Some of the things people say are similar are nothing to shout about, that they also believe in miracles (but where do the miracles come from, have you checked?) Some say they believe in a loving God. That is a bold face lie. There is NOTHING about a God of love in their entire q'oran, and in fact converted muslims will share how the muslim god calls himself "The Deceiver" and is capricious...that that god takes delight in being mean and nasty just to show his power. For traditional similarities, of course there are those... the heritage to Abraham. And, keep in mind Mohammed was illiterate, everything he knew from the God of Israel and the Old Testament was taught to him by Jews.

Because the muslims do not know about a God of love, this is key in winning them to Christ. Some 15,000 Middle East muslims convert DAILY. Praise God.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I have also read the Qu´ran and there are those one hundred and sixty-four verses that demand the world to convert or die ad they do speak directly to the Jew and the Christian. Ad if we study the recorded teachings of Mohamed we see the Theif that would be general and teachings such as a lie is not a sin if it is told for the good of Jihad. I find it very hard to believe you might be grounded in truth with your post here.

 

[Navigator]

No, I haven't read this book. If it is presenting what you say, then I probably won't read it. I have read the q'oran though, in English.

I find the movement to respect the muslim faith (not talking about people here) is a work of the devil. There are ministers so pushing this, and have begun to push the religion of Chrislam in the USA.

Be careful little eyes what you read.

Some of the things people say are similar are nothing to shout about, that they also believe in miracles (but where do the miracles come from, have you checked?) Some say they believe in a loving God. That is a bold face lie. There is NOTHING about a God of love in their entire q'oran, and in fact converted muslims will share how the muslim god calls himself "The Deceiver" and is capricious...that that god takes delight in being mean and nasty just to show his power. For traditional similarities, of course there are those... the heritage to Abraham. And, keep in mind Mohammed was illiterate, everything he knew from the God of Israel and the Old Testament was taught to him by Jews.

Because the muslims do not know about a God of love, this is key in winning them to Christ. Some 15,000 Middle East muslims convert DAILY. Praise God.

I would never call an effort to be nicer and accepting of a group of people the work of the devil.

I agree, the Muslim interpretation of God seems to be one more based on fear of what God will do to them if they are disloyal, rather than one that is of a loving God who forgives. I do know the basic story of Mohammed though. I know that he gained a lot of his monotheistic opinions from Jews and Christians in the Middle East.

While they don't believe Jesus was the Son of God, they do believe he was the most holy of the prophets and born of a virgin, which is what we also believe. Their reasoning for not believing in Jesus as the Son of God is that they think by that..it means God literally had sexual intercourse with a human in Mary, which would be unheard of. Of course, that's not the case at all, but granted, I'd say it's one of the things that Muslims tend to misunderstand about our religion as we are sometimes quick to misunderstand theirs...

 

[Ed the Ned]

I would never call an effort to be nicer and accepting of a group of people the work of the devil.

and the devil says amen!

If accepting Islam as the same as Christianity you are defeating the message given by the Gospel and this will make the devil extremely happy. We are not talking about the individuals here. We are talking about a religion that is not compatible in any way with Christianity, no matter how similar you want to link the two. Buddhist believe in Jesus. Hindu's believe in Jesus, most new-agers believe in Jesus. They just don't believe he died for our sins. They don't believe he is the son of God. They don't believe he is the only way to the Father. Jesus said he was the only way and as Christians we have to believe that because its TRUE. The "Christians" that want to add anything to the mix, please don't call yourself Christians.

We are warned throughout the New Testament to beware of false prophets yet we still want to dabble in comparing the similarities or moral beliefs of Christianity with everything out-there. WHY? Why not just accept the TRUTH, Profess the TRUTH and deny anything that is contrary to the TRUTH.

 

[Navigator]

and the devil says amen!

If accepting Islam as the same as Christianity you are defeating the message given by the Gospel and this will make the devil extremely happy. We are not talking about the individuals here. We are talking about a religion that is not compatible in any way with Christianity, no matter how similar you want to link the two. Buddhist believe in Jesus. Hindu's believe in Jesus, most new-agers believe in Jesus. They just don't believe he died for our sins. They don't believe he is the son of God. They don't believe he is the only way to the Father. Jesus said he was the only way and as Christians we have to believe that because its TRUE. The "Christians" that want to add anything to the mix, please don't call yourself Christians.

We are warned throughout the New Testament to beware of false prophets yet we still want to dabble in comparing the similarities or moral beliefs of Christianity with everything out-there. WHY? Why not just accept the TRUTH, Profess the TRUTH and deny anything that is contrary to the TRUTH.

If this bolded statement is aimed at me (or anyone else for that matter) then shame on you, because you have no right to determine who is a Christian and who is not. 2

As for the rest of your post; you are severely misunderstanding me. Right now, it is safe to assume that many Americans today have a negative outlook on the Muslim population in the Middle East and here. A LOT of that is because we don't truly understand them.

When meeting someone new, how do you get to know them? You prick and pry at them to see if they have any similarities with you. I was merely stating that there ARE similarities between Islam and Christianity..you cannot deny that. Whether they are small or not... those similarities can be possible avenues to become more accepting to the Muslim people in general(not necessarily Islam). We don't have to take what their religion says to heart. We don't have to believe what they believe regarding Jesus.

Going back to my friend example. I've found qualities similar to my own in my friends, but at the end of the day....I'M MY OWN PERSON. I'm not my friends. Same goes here. We don't have to mesh Christianity and Islam in order to be more accepting of the Muslim people...

 

[Navigator]

I have also read the Qu´ran and there are those one hundred and sixty-four verses that demand the world to convert or die ad they do speak directly to the Jew and the Christian. Ad if we study the recorded teachings of Mohamed we see the Theif that would be general and teachings such as a lie is not a sin if it is told for the good of Jihad. I find it very hard to believe you might be grounded in truth with your post here.

Is this to me? I just wasn't sure.

I know the basics of Islam; I know that they believe the whole world should be converted and I BELIEVE the Qur'an says something about a mass conversion in the "end times"? And that includes Jews and Christians going to hell supposedly....? I may be off there...please let me know.

Anyway. My point involving the book, and really the point in any of my posts here is that we should just be more accepting. NOT of their beliefs..we are entitled to our own, but there is nothing wrong with respecting a person regardless of their beliefs. If I meet an atheist, I won't denounce him and claim he is living life wrong. Do I vehemently disagree with his life choice? Yes. But I can still respect him as a person, and not let my opinion on his faith cast a judgement on his morals or character.

I'm not a Bible scholar; I won't claim to be...but does it not say something about loving your enemies more than your "brothers" because anybody can love their brother? That's all I'm getting at.

 

[Mike]

Navigator, the problem as I see it is that you framed your OP by saying the FAITHS were very similar, and IMO, that's much different than saying the people are very similar. People are people, and I'm no better than anyone else on my own merit, but the "faiths" are very different. Islam doesn't agree with who Jesus is, that He was victorious over death, what He has done (and continues to do) for us, and what He will do. It doesn't hold that He is the Way, Truth and Life. There may be some minor similarities, but the MAJOR differences are life changing.

IMO, any book that attempts to minimize these cornerstones of our faith can only do harm to the body of Christ. There are many people weak in their faith (not you) who could be taken way off course by this premise, IMO.

 

[Navigator]

Navigator, the problem as I see it is that you framed your OP by saying the FAITHS were very similar, and IMO, that's much different than saying the people are very similar. People are people, and I'm no better than anyone else on my own merit, but the "faiths" are very different. Islam doesn't agree with who Jesus is, that He was victorious over death, what He has done (and continues to do) for us, and what He will do. It doesn't hold that He is the Way, Truth and Life. There may be some minor similarities, but the MAJOR differences are life changing.

IMO, any book that attempts to minimize these cornerstones of our faith can only do harm to the body of Christ. There are many people weak in their faith (not you) who could be taken way off course by this premise, IMO.

I see that now, and I apologize to those whom I may have confused.

When I mentioned the two faiths were similar, I meant that things like...they hold esteem to many of the same prophets (not to the same extent, with Jesus), they hold helping others less fortunate than themselves in high regard as we do in observing what Jesus did for us and those during His lifetime; these things should act as bridges towards befriending and/or accepting Muslims as a people, rather than the differences in our faiths being a driving force to keep them away.

I hope you understand what I mean now.

 

[Mike]

I agree that we can't share our faith with people we don't show love to. To be honest, I have a hard time putting this into practice for myself when it comes to Muslims, however, when I've been forced to get to know them, the ones I've met have been very decent.

But, again, this is different than the religion. Look at what Muslim law creates... Human atrocities. Woman are treated like possessions of men and sharia law has violent consequences for those who practice other faiths. It's my opinion, but I would really be careful not to minimize the glaring omission of Christ's Divinity.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Is this to me? I just wasn't sure.

Yes.

I know the basics of Islam; I know that they believe the whole world should be converted and I BELIEVE the Qur'an says something about a mass conversion in the "end times"? And that includes Jews and Christians going to hell supposedly....? I may be off there...please let me know.

I have not taken to do an intensive study of the Qu´ran but rather a read through to get a generalized snap shot. From that and from other writings by and about Muslims I gathered a number of questions that I took to work with me to discuss with the Muslims there. The questions are a fairly clear picture of a people led by a man, their Imam, and they have little to no knowledge of what he teaches.

One thing I was able to get affirmed though is that every Muslim does believe the passages about supporting the Jihad and it took a Christian, converted from Islam to answer that question. All the Muslims I asked became angry at the question and the most I received from any of them was that I must learn to read and to speak Arabic to even begin to understand the Qu´ran, that makes no sense what-so-ever.

From two Islamic converts to Christianity have taught me that any lie told for the furtherance of the Islamic Jihad of the world is excused by Allah. Allah is God in Arabic.) Further more, their entire Religion is a corkscrewed version of Judaism and Christianity mixed together by Mohamed.

Now, if we study Mohamed we discover that he was a bandit and a murderer that dreamed of being a General. That is their most holy prophet, greater than Jesus. And if we look around us a cease to close our eyes to the trouble of our allies and friends in the world we see that the Islamics are capturing England and other nations and that they are imposing Sharia Law there. That is a matter of life and death concern for any Christian or Jew!

Once you get past the lies they tell to build their base population in any country it becomes very clear they will not speak honestly until they are the power in that country and that we, Christians and Jews, are their mortal enemy. It is for me, a difficult thing to be accepting of a people bent on the slaughter of my grandchildren.

Anyway. My point involving the book, and really the point in any of my posts here is that we should just be more accepting. NOT of their beliefs..we are entitled to our own, but there is nothing wrong with respecting a person regardless of their beliefs. If I meet an atheist, I won't denounce him and claim he is living life wrong. Do I vehemently disagree with his life choice? Yes. But I can still respect him as a person, and not let my opinion on his faith cast a judgement on his morals or character.

Then you are at best a Carnal Christian! The last four verses of Matthew are not a suggestion, they are a command! What you say is so infiltrated with the world´s ideology that it is not, at all, Christian.

We are not called to never judge by Matt. 7:1 but rather are called to do exactly that when it is read in the context of the Beatitudes. We are to judge everyone we meet! We are to judge them by the same standard we wish to be judged by! If you do not allow a man to handle your 4 year old daughter in a manor he might choose, you have judged his righteously.

I'm not a Bible scholar; I won't claim to be...but does it not say something about loving your enemies more than your "brothers" because anybody can love their brother? That's all I'm getting at.

I´m not a scholar of any type. I almost finished the Eighth Grade befor I joined the Army and earned my GED. I do, however, read the Bible daily. And I understand the first rule of hermeneutics, ¨Do not ever try to understand any scripture, section of scripture nor book of scripture without the weight of all other scripture resting upon it.¨

And while there are many other scriptures that bare on what you have given here, I´ll just try to bring one to your mind. When Jesus was done with his work and it was time for the Disciples to take their place in the scheme of things he told them to purchase a sword!

 

[Navigator]

I have not taken to do an intensive study of the Qu´ran but rather a read through to get a generalized snap shot. From that and from other writings by and about Muslims I gathered a number of questions that I took to work with me to discuss with the Muslims there. The questions are a fairly clear picture of a people led by a man, their Imam, and they have little to no knowledge of what he teaches.

One thing I was able to get affirmed though is that every Muslim does believe the passages about supporting the Jihad and it took a Christian, converted from Islam to answer that question. All the Muslims I asked became angry at the question and the most I received from any of them was that I must learn to read and to speak Arabic to even begin to understand the Qu´ran, that makes no sense what-so-ever.

From two Islamic converts to Christianity have taught me that any lie told for the furtherance of the Islamic Jihad of the world is excused by Allah. Allah is God in Arabic.) Further more, their entire Religion is a corkscrewed version of Judaism and Christianity mixed together by Mohamed.

Now, if we study Mohamed we discover that he was a bandit and a murderer that dreamed of being a General. That is their most holy prophet, greater than Jesus. And if we look around us a cease to close our eyes to the trouble of our allies and friends in the world we see that the Islamics are capturing England and other nations and that they are imposing Sharia Law there. That is a matter of life and death concern for any Christian or Jew!

Once you get past the lies they tell to build their base population in any country it becomes very clear they will not speak honestly until they are the power in that country and that we, Christians and Jews, are their mortal enemy. It is for me, a difficult thing to be accepting of a people bent on the slaughter of my grandchildren.

Then you are at best a Carnal Christian! The last four verses of Matthew are not a suggestion, they are a command! What you say is so infiltrated with the world´s ideology that it is not, at all, Christian.

We are not called to never judge by Matt. 7:1 but rather are called to do exactly that when it is read in the context of the Beatitudes. We are to judge everyone we meet! We are to judge them by the same standard we wish to be judged by! If you do not allow a man to handle your 4 year old daughter in a manor he might choose, you have judged his righteously.


I´m not a scholar of any type. I almost finished the Eighth Grade befor I joined the Army and earned my GED. I do, however, read the Bible daily. And I understand the first rule of hermeneutics, ¨Do not ever try to understand any scripture, section of scripture nor book of scripture without the weight of all other scripture resting upon it.¨

And while there are many other scriptures that bare on what you have given here, I´ll just try to bring one to your mind. When Jesus was done with his work and it was time for the Disciples to take their place in the scheme of things he told them to purchase a sword!

This isn't meant to be a debate on what the Qur'an says...I don't know what it says; I haven't read it. The author of the book is Christian, and simply tries to give fellow Christians advice as to making Muslim friends, rather than succumbing to the common worldview that all Muslims are terrorists, which they are not. To build on this, he notes Jesus as a bridge between the religions, and thus a common ground that allows Christians and Muslims to have a civilized conversation about religion and maybe make progress to understand each other and their beliefs. The author even notes that many Muslims don't even have extensive knowledge of what the Qur'an says and are more concerned with the title of being "Muslim" than anything else.

I don't understand what this has to do with me making disciples...

Matthew 7:1 tells us exactly the opposite of what you are implying. It tells us to NOT be quick to judge others, for then we will also be judged. If you continue to verse 3 and on, Jesus asks why we notice others' faults while we live with faults ourselves.

 

[Ed the Ned]

If this bolded statement is aimed at me (or anyone else for that matter) then shame on you, because you have no right to determine who is a Christian and who is not.

The bolded statement:

"The "Christians" that want to add anything to the mix, please don't call yourself Christians. "

This is not aimed at you in the slightest. I do not know you. And I will not judge you or others in their walk with Christ. It is a simple statement asking those who do not believe in the words of Jesus Christ to stop calling themselves Christians, to stop teaching their false religions in the name of Christ.

I work at a public school in South Africa that has a Christian ethos. There are Muslims at the school as many other students that follow other religions as Hinduism etc. I do not treat any child differently from the next. I respect the right given to them to follow any religion they wish, and I expect the same in return. If I am asked what the Truth is, I will tell them. I will witness in my actions towards them. Accepting any similarities between Christianity and the religion of their choice has absolutely nothing to do with way I interact with them.

What did Jesus say:

"beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep, but are really vicious wolves" - Matt 7:15 NLT

"Everyone who denies Me here on earth, I will also deny before My Father in Heaven" - Matt 10:33 NLT

"Let your 'Yes' be 'Yes and your 'No, 'No'. For whatever is more than these is from the Evil One" - Matt 5:37 NKJV

"On the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak" - Matt 12:36 ESV

"Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because He has not believed in the name of the only Son of God" - John 3:18 ESV

To finish the post I would like to ask one question:

How confusing is it for a new person in Christ to maintain his faith in the only way to eternal life if "Christian" leaders and authors are claiming otherwise?

 

[th1b.taylor]

But they are! When I was in service to this country I was part and parcel, a member of the US Government. Now, you will remember, please, that I called for you to read the Qu´ran? I have also recommended that folks study before falling in line with any leader or movement or, in other words, ¨Do not be led, as sheep, to the slaughter.

What you have proposed, perhaps, without realizing it is anti-scriptual and pro-Muslim Jihad! In the scriptures, as afore mentioned, is the call to study to show one´s self approved. The is a command that, if we follow God, applies to our every moment and turn of our lives. If you are a follower of the Christ, Jesus, it is akin to being in the military or an even more accurate example, like unto being a servant of the King.

With a good study led by one of the Muslim convert Pastors or by any good Arab Christian of the Islamic belief structure will prove to you that the Muslim, not the Arab, is your mortal enemy. Now, during the First World War, on one Christmas Day, both sides came out of the trenches and onto No-Man´s Land to celebrate... together. That night they slept in peace, I´m told. The next morning they were at war again.

My point? Just as God teaches us through the writing of Solomon, there is a time for everything. And while there is certainly a time and a place for us to witness in the Love of Christ, there is never a time to risk our wives, children and grandchildren´s lives because we were fools.

 

[Ed the Ned]

To Add:

Please follow this link and listen to the message given. The comment s made by John Piper are profound:

http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/a-common-word-between-us

Thanks

 

[Navigator]

Ed. I will check out your video later. Thank you for posting.

It's become pretty obvious that I either have completely misrepresented what I wanted to say or others have misinterpreted what I have said; my guess is it's the former. I just wanted to recommend a book that is written by a Christian, for Christians, regarding Christian-Muslim relations in everyday life. That's all. That's it. haha. I don't want to debate (anymore I suppose) because there is nothing to debate. I'm not defending the Islamic faith or attempting to place it at a level playing field with what I personally believe in the Christian doctrine. This is an "other books" sub forum and I presented a book I recently read and thought others may be interested in.

 

[kidcanman]

Navigator, I'm a Muslim and I hear you. We have differences when it comes to theology, but that does not mean that either one of us are boogy men and that we can't talk to one another. On the other hand many people are afraid because the Islamic culture is an aggressive one. And I'm not referring to violence. I'm referring to the fact that the culture encourages members to practice publicly. And it also is an "evangelical" culture. And so the fear of many non-Muslims is that, unlike other cultures that are docile, if you allow Islam to gain prestige in the West, it will attempt to take over. And I think this is a valid fear. Of course the "demonization" of Islam and Muslims is also a problem because we don't know where that will lead. At the end of the day we are in pickle. But the fact that you have realized that Muslims are people just like you is something that will enrich your life going forward; knowledge is power. But as you have experienced from the responses to your post, I doubt that you will generate a large Christian following of this idea.

 

[Navigator]

Navigator, I'm a Muslim and I hear you. We have differences when it comes to theology, but that does not mean that either one of us are boogy men and that we can't talk to one another. On the other hand many people are afraid because the Islamic culture is an aggressive one. And I'm not referring to violence. I'm referring to the fact that the culture encourages members to practice publicly. And it also is an "evangelical" culture. And so the fear of many non-Muslims is that, unlike other cultures that are docile, if you allow Islam to gain prestige in the West, it will attempt to take over. And I think this is a valid fear. Of course the "demonization" of Islam and Muslims is also a problem because we don't know where that will lead. At the end of the day we are in pickle. But the fact that you have realized that Muslims are people just like you is something that will enrich your life going forward; knowledge is power. But as you have experienced from the responses to your post, I doubt that you will generate a large Christian following of this idea.

Thanks for the response kidcanman. I appreciate it. And I understand what you're saying; I'm taking a History of the Middle East class this quarter at my college, so I've come to gain some knowledge about the origins and growth of the Islam religion, but that doesn't mean I am ready to jump ship religious-wise and become a Muslim. I don't know your religious background, but I wouldn't expect you to want to switch religions based on your reading of a Christian book...or joining a christian online forum ;) I don't see any harm in learning about another religion, and the people that follow it..how else are you supposed to have any semblance of a relationship...friendship or otherwise...with a person of another religion if you know nothing about what they hold most dear??

 

[jasoncran]

i have been to the islamic republic of afghanistan. i have made some muslim friends there.

one of them i still talk to

 

[th1b.taylor]

If this bolded statement is aimed at me (or anyone else for that matter) then shame on you, because you have no right to determine who is a Christian and who is not. 2

Sir,
The very popular verse with the Lost Man for you error he is Matt. 7:1 but there is a rule in Hermeneutics that is applied, first, by any serious Christian. This rule goes something like, not a quote, ¨No single scripture nor can any single portion of scripture be understood without the light of all other scripture shining on it.¨ From this there is much to learn. In this case it makes your, ¨shame on you,¨ completely out of place and incorrect.

Verses 1-6 of this passage form a paragraph in todays writing styles meaning that no less than all six verses are strung together to make a single thought. The context, and we must always grasp the context of anything we read, is that the follower of Jesus, the Christ must judge and that he or she must judge in the same manor they wish to be judged. You see, it is not our LORD you follow when you make this statement but rather the Devil.