My latest attempt at connecting the dots vs. OSAS

[smaller]

I was following along pretty well until this. One has to assume that we no longer have our own lust that Satan pulls on.

Who said it was ours to begin with? Paul is clear that lust is inserted internally as an adverse reaction of indwelling sin meeting Law and lays this 'law' out in great detail in Romans 7, not exempting himself.

And as James stated, once that lust is internally inserted it is 'ours' in particular to deal with.

Something we are told to put away. Then we are told not to give place to the devil.

Recognizing what it is and who it is of/from is the dividing. A believer recognizes they are being pawned.

Resist the devil and submit to God. Jesus said I give you authority over the devil, and in Peter we are told to stand fast in faith against the devil.

We certainly don't do that by lying about the fact of that activity. IN fact such believers have merely been pawned when they are not honest about these matters OR they are blinded by Satan to the facts.

Paul defined himself as the chief of sinners, after salvation. Once this matter is seen the battles actually do intensify. If anyone sees Paul being internally bombarded by the tempter the math on 'how' Paul is the chief of sinners is not hard to figure out, when the tempter is therein, tempting. That is what happened to Apostles. Thankfully they wrote about it honestly.

John stated we can not say we 'have' [present tense] no sin and that sin is of the DEVIL. (1 John 1:8 & 1 John 3:8) There is no escaping this math other than by dishonesty.

So, what your saying is that we can safely (Not on earth but for eternal security sake.) ignore the Word of God in those areas,

Ignore the Word of God? Never. Ever. Why would any believer defer themselves from a Single Word of God? Just because there is some Word of God that hurts our pride we shouldn't run away from it.

follow Satan, Leave God,

Making fantastical unconnected leaps of non existing logic isn't going to extend this conversation very far is it?

One might question the source of such internal gyrations instead? What is being shared may not suit up to your particular doctrinal slant but the information I share is openly viewable in the scriptures.

and God likes that because He might not have enough cannon fodder to convict the devil without our disobedience to the Word, though the devil is cooked anyway.

That's part of it, the judgment of powers greater than us, yes. There are other Divine Matters going on with us too in the exposure. If you are remotely interested I would share them but it is unlikely at this point that is the case.

enjoy!

s

 

[smaller]

Jesus never said anything about OSAS. He said people would fall away, people who even THOUGHT they were His disciples. He told people that they must love like HE did to be considered His disciples, not just claim to be His disciples.

The scripture sets for OSAS have been cited here numerous times. If anyone bothered to read them it would be abundantly clear.

The understanding didn't show up out of thin air. Unlike some other doctrines or dogmas.

John 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

What sane believer says no to Him? Certainly not one in 'his own mind.'

s

 

[MarkT]

The problem with your argument is Jesus never said once saved always saved. In fact he said many would fall away. Jesus said he would not lose any of his sheep, his sheep being his followers, that his sheep follow him and no one else. That's how we know who they are. They only follow Jesus. So since Jesus never said once saved always saved - it's not his teaching - you must be following the wrong man.

So here we have a situation where people are picking and choosing what they want to believe, ignoring the warnings, trampling the pasture which is intended for the sheep.

The Bible never says "trinity" either. We exegete that doctrine from Scripture.

And who told you you could do that? Where is the fear of God in men?

A false prophet is someone who says the words come from the LORD when the words did not come from the LORD. That you would put words in the mouth of God, without any fear, and say it is from the LORD and still think you are a believer. That is astonishing. You people have the guts to make stuff up and say it is from the LORD. That goes for you Protestants and Catholics too! The heavens tremble!

 

[dadof10]

To be born-again is to become a new creature in Christ.

Agreed.

To be born-again is the same as having eternal life.

Let's see if this is what Jesus says:

"Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

It makes a person CAPABLE of inheriting "the kingdom of God". Being born again does not GUARANTEE entrance into eternal life.

Where in this verse do you see that being born again equates to HAVING AND NEVER LOSING eternal life? This is your contention. You are the one who makes the silly connection between born and "unborn". To prove your point, you must show some teaching from someone that "born again" equates to receiving and never losing eternal life. Can you?

Baptism has NOTHING to do with being born-again.

Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

What does the "water" here mean? And please...PLEASE don't post the absolutely ridiculous "waters of the actual birth canal" take. That is so convoluted as to be laughable.

So, no sorry. "Born again" means baptized.

 

[smaller]

So, no sorry. "Born again" means baptized.

Some believers in the past saw the utter hypocrisy and lies of waving hands, sprinkling water and uttering Gods Words over infants, thinking them 'born again' only to see them grow up as anything but believers and they left that lie.

And many were also killed for leaving that lie.

s

 

[Brother Mike]

smaller

In believers who fall it is the OTHER PARTY who prevails over and upon them in this present life. Does that mean God in Christ is going to burn them alive forever? Assuredly not. Such that are fallen in this present life in DIVINE REALITY are doing their part in bringing DIVINE JUDGMENT upon the DEVIL AND his MESSENGERS. In this way every believer serves God and our enemies HANG at the cross in our own dead flesh.

Smaller. Pay attention, this is no leaps in Logic here, but a statement based directly on what you stated. I just simplified it is all. You said....... and this is how I read it. Those that have fallen (Left the Lord Jesus to follow after Satan through whatever means) In DIVINE REALITY (God's perfect will for them to disobey and turn from him) Are doing their part (Following the path of God, running their perfect race, being the body part intended to be. By turning away from Jesus) Doing their part (The perfect plan of God) to bring divine judgment on the devil (Killing, stealing and destroying were not enough, God by his divine "Sovereign" plan needed believers to reject him after getting born again) In this way every believer SERVES God (By willful disobedience to God, but really God's plan to be disobedient)

Now, that is what you stated, I don't see any confusion in understanding what you meant. In short, God has a plan for many to reject Jesus after making him Lord so that God has enough evidence to convict Satan of being a rat. This is God's "DIVINE REALITY".

At the Funeral....................
God has taken this precious little child home early, as He causes it to rain on the just and unjust. Perhaps God saw evil to come in the child's life and called them home by his Divine and Sovereign purpose. We don't always understand God, but all things work to the good for his glory

What was really said:

God murders indiscriminately kids and those that serve or don't serve Him. God is lazy and did not fell like protecting the child from evil to come, so God just murdered them to save all the trouble. We are to stupid to figure God out anyway and need to be brainwashed in thinking that dead children in the casket is God's great plan.

This is what is really said, Without the fluff and candy coating it. Some don't like it simple, I do.

Mike

 

[smaller]

Smaller. Pay attention, this is no leaps in Logic here, but a statement based directly on what you stated. I just simplified it is all. You said....... and this is how I read it. Those that have fallen (Left the Lord Jesus to follow after Satan through whatever means) In DIVINE REALITY (God's perfect will for them to disobey and turn from him)

And you entirely miss the point. We 'all' disobey because of the operations of the tempter within.

This categorically places that worker within the mind/heart.

What don't you get about this fact?

Some believers are overcome to the point where they are entirely blinded. Does that mean God in Christ left them?

Never. The later portion is your guess only.

And given the state of affairs with segmented Christianity I certainly can't say I blame many people for leaving off some of the nonsense that's floated in the space in general. There are believers everywhere that'll stick an eternal roasting fork in another believer over the pettiest of matters it's sickeningly unreal. A pathetic demonstration of faith, at best.

Christian sectarianism is filled to the brim with such meager measures. To me sitting in a building full of people ready to burn me alive forever if I don't cotton up to their particular doctrines, dogmas or details is not much different than sitting in a room full of devils, all pretending to be believers, of course.

Do I think such people are saved anyway? Yeah. I do.

See how that works? I don't care to fellowship much with intended eternal killers or eternal torturers of other believers for some odd reason.

Are doing their part (Following the path of God, running their perfect race, being the body part intended to be. By turning away from Jesus) Doing their part (The perfect plan of God) to bring divine judgment on the devil (Killing, stealing and destroying were not enough, God by his divine "Sovereign" plan needed believers to reject him after getting born again) In this way every believer SERVES God (By willful disobedience to God, but really God's plan to be disobedient)

No one is Perfect that I recall.

A whole bunch of 'em like to pretend to be though don't they?

Now, that is what you stated, I don't see any confusion in understanding what you meant. In short, God has a plan for many to reject Jesus after making him Lord so that God has enough evidence to convict Satan of being a rat. This is God's "DIVINE REALITY".

Falling is a fact of being a Christian.

Proverbs 24:16
For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

I know more than a few believers that left assemblies over this exact matter. Because the other 'believers' sought to burn them alive forever over their self subscribed jots and tittles. And who can blame them?

At the Funeral....................
God has taken this precious little child home early, as He causes it to rain on the just and unjust. Perhaps God saw evil to come in the child's life and called them home by his Divine and Sovereign purpose. We don't always understand God, but all things work to the good for his glory

What was really said:

God murders indiscriminately kids and those that serve or don't serve Him. God is lazy and did not fell like protecting the child from evil to come, so God just murdered them to save all the trouble. We are to stupid to figure God out anyway and need to be brainwashed in thinking that dead children in the casket is God's great plan.

Yeah, and you might guess that I'm not a fan of 'believers' who show up at suicides telling the remaining family members that their loved one who attended church and believed but FELL is burning alive in hell forever. There are some really sick people in christianity.

Wolf alert.

s

 

[francisdesales]

Jesus never said anything about OSAS. He said people would fall away, people who even THOUGHT they were His disciples. He told people that they must love like HE did to be considered His disciples, not just claim to be His disciples.

The scripture sets for OSAS have been cited here numerous times. If anyone bothered to read them it would be abundantly clear.

The understanding didn't show up out of thin air. Unlike some other doctrines or dogmas.

John 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

What sane believer says no to Him? Certainly not one in 'his own mind.'

s

All of your supposed OSAS scripture sets have been shot down long ago.

Your citation is no different. It doesn't say anyone who BELIEVED in me once a long time ago will go to heaven. Nothing about OSAS.

It states that those who CONTINUE to believe NOW will never die. Those who have Christ have life. There is no guarantee that one will remain in Christ or that they will believe later in life.

 

[francisdesales]

So, no sorry. "Born again" means baptized.

Some believers in the past saw the utter hypocrisy and lies of waving hands, sprinkling water and uttering Gods Words over infants, thinking them 'born again' only to see them grow up as anything but believers and they left that lie.

And many were also killed for leaving that lie.

s

Any citations from the Church Fathers of the first millenium who felt that way, perhaps people who heard John and Paul preach with their own ears, or is this another of those modern interpretations of Scriptures that seem to come and go based upon the latest craze?

 

[smaller]

All of your supposed OSAS scripture sets have been shot down long ago.

Uh, yeah, that's where tradition will take ya won't it?

I'd laugh if it wasn't such a pathetic fact.

And fortunately forced compliance to the sights of some other nonsense is no longer imposed by threat of death while simultaneously the sect members claiming 'freewill.'

Your citation is no different. It doesn't say anyone who BELIEVED in me once a long time ago will go to heaven. Nothing about OSAS.

We don't get to peel back somebody else's brain to see what it is they 'really' believe or 'who' Is with them do we? Or at least not anymore...

If you are equating belief with spouting inserted repetitive rituals and formulas concocted by others, maybe you'd have a point.

It states that those who CONTINUE to believe NOW will never die. Those who have Christ have life. There is no guarantee that one will remain in Christ or that they will believe later in life.

Unfortunately we are not allowed to discuss the fact that the terms and conditions you are forced to use bear little resemblance to what they are or I'd peel that subject matter open considerably wider.

s

 

[smaller]

Any citations from the Church Fathers of the first millenium who felt that way, perhaps people who heard John and Paul preach with their own ears, or is this another of those modern interpretations of Scriptures that seem to come and go based upon the latest craze?

It's an historical fact that believers left orthodoxy over their conscience objections to child baptism and also killed for doing so, yes.

s

 

[reba]

Back to topic guys

Over the years here one can't help but notice when threads keep going off topic they have run their course.

 

[smaller]

Back to topic guys

Well, unfortunately we have a couple posters here who want everyone else to believe they might not be saved unless we join their sect and bow only to their rules, terms and conditions regarding NON-OSAS.

and we can not fully engage their attempts but they can dance around with their unending personal slurs and doubts upon one's eternal fate.

s

 

[reba]

Closed thread ... may be reopened... I really dont like members doing what, they think, they can to close a thread because they dont like the content.