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My prayer for holiness.

H

heartwashed

 
Member
It is my prayer that the Lord will satisfy me with His living water so that I will not be drawn away by, tempted by, enticed by, or become thirsty for, the toilet water that this world has to offer (John 4:13-14, John 6:35, John 7:37-39).

That He would give me a mindset that sin is not inevitable (1 John 3:9, 2 Peter 1:10); that I am not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12, kjv, NLT); and that therefore I can walk in freedom and victory, in righteousness and holiness, not after the flesh but after the Spirit, for an extended period of time; even for the rest of my life (Luke 1:74-75).
 
heartwashed said:
It is my prayer that the Lord will satisfy me with His living water so that I will not be drawn away by, tempted by, enticed by, or become thirsty for, the toilet water that this world has to offer (John 4:13-14, John 6:35, John 7:37-39).

That He would give me a mindset that sin is not inevitable (1 John 3:9, 2 Peter 1:10); that I am not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12, kjv, NLT); and that therefore I can walk in freedom and victory, in righteousness and holiness, not after the flesh but after the Spirit, for an extended period of time; even for the rest of my life (Luke 1:74-75).
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It seems that you really want to not sin and that is commendable. However, asking God to satisfy you instead so that you need not suffer saying "no" to your wrong desire is not going to work. Those scriptures do not support that either. If we look at Jesus resisting temptation, we see that he was tempted and that resisting it was not done because it was not tempting to take the more pleasurable short cut. Jesus actually said that "it is NECESSARY that temptations come" so it is no use asking God to make your heart such that no temptations ever come before you. I guarantee you they will come. How is a believer to arm themselves against them?

The Biblical answer is the fear of the Lord. That is what we see in those in the Bible who resisted temptation. I could start a thread on the fear of the Lord and this is a long subject with many many scriptures. In a nutshell, it is caring more about what God thinks that your pleasure or what people think. The opposite is the fear of man, also described.

The fear of man is what everyone (except sociopaths) have that keeps their behavior in check. We do not do some things because we are afraid of what others might think about us. The fear of the Lord is seen when we do not do some things (sin) because we are afraid or care about what God thinks us more than anything else. It is what kept Daniel and his friends from sinning. It is what kept Jospeh from sinning. This is what you need to pray for. It comes with a growing hatred of sin. We do not do what we hate.

Now, why do you think that sin in inevitable? You asked for a mindset where you do not think that. I do not think that and actually no one really thinks that when it comes to being the victim of someone's sin at the very least. When one is convicted of a crime in a good court of law (and is guilty), the lawyer does not use the "but his choice was editable" defense. If someone steals your car, you do not say, "well that was inevitable" unless you left the keys in and the door open which means YOU made it inevitable.

The Enemy (Satan) might tell you it was inevitable because he wants you to continue to behave that way and so imprison you. He is willing to help you excuse yourself when you sin. He does not want you to see sin as your choice that you made in time and could and should have chosen differently and so REPENT.

If you want more holiness I have another suggestion but you will not like it. You need to ask PEOPLE to forgive you of sins that know you committed against them. And make restitution if necessary, meaning if you took anything from anyone, you need to bring it back. So when you sin, ask God to forgive you, maybe confess your sin to others (painful) and go to the one you sinned against and ask them to forgive you (even more painful.) And do NOT use the "if I hurt you, Im sorry" line which is putting yourself above them instead of humbling yourself. Just use the "please forgive me for speaking to you that way" or whatever you did. Everyone except sociopaths are sorry if they hurt someone else. That is not saying anything worth saying. If you have to ask people to forgive you (painful if you do it right) it is a deterrent to sin. The pain of asking is not worth the pleasure. That was my experience.

All the best to you,
D
 
Hi Dorothy Mae,

Yes, apparently there is a doctrine going around in some circles in the church that as a Christian you are going to sin...that sin is inevitable.

Where did Jesus say that it is necessary that temptations come?

I find that in 1 Peter 1:6-7, temptations may come, "if need be", are the words that are given in the passage.

I also have to disagree with you when you say that Jesus will not satisfy so that you are not tempted by what this world has to offer. I believe that the scripture is clear that if you are partaking of living water (the Holy Spirit), you will never thirst again (John 4:13-14, John 6:35, John 7:37-39). This is referring to the water that you drank before you were given the Holy Spirit...the things that you looked for to satisfy you that came out of this world system.

I think that the following scripture is appropo here.

1Jo 2:15, Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jo 2:16, For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

This is saying that if anyone has the Holy Spirit; and thus the love of the Father dwelling within him; that he will not love this world or the things of this world...the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life...and therefore will not indulge in them.
 
heartwashed said:
Hi Dorothy Mae,

Yes, apparently there is a doctrine going around in some circles in the church that as a Christian you are going to sin...that sin is inevitable.

Where did Jesus say that it is necessary that temptations come?
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“Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes!”

heartwashed said:
I find that in 1 Peter 1:6-7, temptations may come, "if need be", are the words that are given in the passage.
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Jesus was tempted and it was necessary.
heartwashed said:
I also have to disagree with you when you say that Jesus will not satisfy so that you are not tempted by what this world has to offer. I believe that the scripture is clear that if you are partaking of living water (the Holy Spirit), you will never thirst again (John 4:13-14, John 6:35, John 7:37-39). This is referring to the water that you drank before you were given the Holy Spirit...the things that you looked for to satisfy you that came out of this world system.
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It is clear that the water is not sin but legitimate needs and desires. Revelation talks about never hungering or thirsting again and it isn’t saying all desires including wrong ones are gone. The water or food as is also referred to are those legitimate needs and desires. Jesus outright says God knows we need these things (food, water, clothes, shelter) and will provide. That’s what this refers to.

To further convince you, was Jesus completely satisfied in God? Wasn’t he also tempted? The bible says he was tempted in all manner as we are.

I think you’re hoping for a painless move from sin to having that desire removed without any effort on your part. The Bible repeatedly tells us to struggle against the sin within too. But there is hope and the HS helps. It just isn’t voilà and all sinful desire is gone.
heartwashed said:
I think that the following scripture is appropo here.

1Jo 2:15, Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jo 2:16, For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

This is saying that if anyone has the Holy Spirit; and thus the love of the Father dwelling within him; that he will not love this world or the things of this world...the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life...and therefore will not indulge in them.
Click to expand...
No, it’s saying if a man loves the world, the love of God isn’t in Him. It is not saying that if a man love God no temptations this world offers will be there. Jesus loved God and was tempted.

Now I’ve walked with Jesus some 50 years and I can tell from experience and scripture how it is. I have a deep passion for God and I often defend Him against the insulting lies his children tell about Him. That love DOES make some sins now unattractive. That’s because I know that if I engage in them, our fellowship will be damaged for a time. He will withdraw from me. Sin still separates us from God. So the pleasure of the sin is less than the pleasure of His fellowship. Not that I never yield, but premeditated is worse.

So in one sense you’re right but it isn’t a gift except perhaps the fear of the Lord that He can drop in whereby one is less tempted although it needs to be said that the bar gets continually raised.
 
Hi Dorothy Mae,

I still think that we can be satisfied by living water and that we will never thirst again for the toilet water that this world has to offer.

I am certain that the water that Jesus spoke of in John 4:13, "whoever drinks of this water shall thirst again" is speaking of those things that only satisfy temporarily and which produce an addictive attraction.

I agree that the fear of the Lord ought to be a factor in our staying away from drinking again of the water that would cause us to thirst again.

It is written,

1Co 6:12, All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Once a person has been set free from the desire for things that they used to be addicted to, they are set free from that desire. They may be tempted, if need be, by being faced with that addictive element and the memory of the pleasure that causes the addiction comes back and a desire for that thing returns. They at one time partook of the toilet water that this world has to offer, and therefore they thirst again.

Jesus said, "If anyone among you thirsts, let him come unto me and drink." (John 7:37)

We can indeed choose to follow the way of escape that the Lord has provided for us (1 Corinthians 10:13) when we become thirsty; by not drinking of the toilet water that is offered by this world and by instead drinking of the water that Jesus has to offer; that living water that wells up into everlasting life (John 4:14).

I do believe that after a season of partaking of the living water that is given to us by Jesus, it is possible for us to never thirst again for the things that used to satisfy us for a season (Hebrews 11:25). Jesus' living water satisfies not only for a season but for ever and ever.
 
John 1:14 kjv
14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 Corinthians 15:45 kjv
45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Revelation 3:20 kjv
20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

The prayers of Jesus seem to have accomplished what you seek .

Open the door and let the quickening spirit in.

The problem may be we want to pray, and those prayers were already offered by Jesus to fulfill the Fathers will.
John 3:16

eddif
 
eddif said:
Matthew 18:7 kjv
7. Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man
by whom the offence cometh!

eddif
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It may very well be that offences and temptations are two very different things.
 
heartwashed said:
Hi Dorothy Mae,

I still think that we can be satisfied by living water and that we will never thirst again for the toilet water that this world has to offer.

I am certain that the water that Jesus spoke of in John 4:13, "whoever drinks of this water shall thirst again" is speaking of those things that only satisfy temporarily and which produce an addictive attraction.

I agree that the fear of the Lord ought to be a factor in our staying away from drinking again of the water that would cause us to thirst again.

It is written,

1Co 6:12, All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Once a person has been set free from the desire for things that they used to be addicted to, they are set free from that desire. They may be tempted, if need be, by being faced with that addictive element and the memory of the pleasure that causes the addiction comes back and a desire for that thing returns. They at one time partook of the toilet water that this world has to offer, and therefore they thirst again.

Jesus said, "If anyone among you thirsts, let him come unto me and drink." (John 7:37)

We can indeed choose to follow the way of escape that the Lord has provided for us (1 Corinthians 10:13) when we become thirsty; by not drinking of the toilet water that is offered by this world and by instead drinking of the water that Jesus has to offer; that living water that wells up into everlasting life (John 4:14).

I do believe that after a season of partaking of the living water that is given to us by Jesus, it is possible for us to never thirst again for the things that used to satisfy us for a season (Hebrews 11:25). Jesus' living water satisfies not only for a season but for ever and ever.
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Well, I see that you still think being satisfied in God eliminates temptation more or less. I can only wish you all the best in your endeavor or prayer for your desires to be satisfied. You won’t find anyone in the Bible who spoke of this as a goal or their experience but I can see why it’s appealing.

Wishing you all the best and looking forward to hearing one day if that perspective turned out to be true in fact.
 
eddif said:
John 1:14 kjv
14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 Corinthians 15:45 kjv
45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Revelation 3:20 kjv
20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

The prayers of Jesus seem to have accomplished what you seek .

Open the door and let the quickening spirit in.

The problem may be we want to pray, and those prayers were already offered by Jesus to fulfill the Fathers will.
John 3:16

eddif
Click to expand...
Jesus became a quickening spirit by releasing His Spirit to the Father in Luke 23:46...that Spirit that was released is Jesus Christ.

However, as concerning the Son, it should be clear that the Son (Jesus Christ) is come in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

Therefore the flesh body of Jesus did not become a quickening spirit.

Jesus Christ is (present tense) come in the flesh.

He is therefore a Man sitting on the right hand of the throne of God.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
Well, I see that you still think being satisfied in God eliminates temptation more or less. I can only wish you all the best in your endeavor or prayer for your desires to be satisfied. You won’t find anyone in the Bible who spoke of this as a goal or their experience but I can see why it’s appealing.

Wishing you all the best and looking forward to hearing one day if that perspective turned out to be true in fact.
Click to expand...
Of course it is spoken of in the Bible (John 4:13-14, John 6:35, John 7:37-39).

I am also finding it to be true in my present Christian experience.
 
heartwashed said:
It may very well be that offences and temptations are two very different things.
Click to expand...
The Greek word is the same, sin or temptations to sin, not “being offended.”

So it’s necessary that temptations to sin come same as it was necessary for Jesus to go through temptations to sin.
 
Jesus was tempted by things that might have the power to tempt God...only by those things that have good at their ultimate end.

He could not be tempted by evil (James 1:13) since He was God in the flesh (John 1:1,14).

And I don't think that a temptation is the same thing as an offence.

A temptation comes when you desire to do something that wouldn't have a positive result (for that the pathway to the ultimate good is through an evil venue)...or when you desire to do something that is inherently evil by nature...

An offence is when someone does evil against you and you are offended by it.
 
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heartwashed said:
Of course it is spoken of in the Bible (John 4:13-14, John 6:35, John 7:37-39).

I am also finding it to be true in my present Christian experience.
Click to expand...
Then why did you ask for prayer regarding holiness? Why did you write that you asked God to break fingers off of those who do what you consider wrong? Is this being so satisfied in Him that you love (treat) others as you’d like to be treated? Was your response to moderators Christlike if your method makes you holy?
 
Did the Psalmist pray an ungodly prayer in Psalms 10:15?

I told you in the other thread that I prayed that prayer even for myself because of my desire for sanctification and that the Lord even broke my arm as the result.

So I have not asked anything for anyone else that I have not also taken upon myself.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
Then why did you ask for prayer regarding holiness?
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I did not ask for prayer regarding holiness; I mentioned that it is my prayer that the Lord would make me holy.

I do believe that the Lord has answered in the affirmative (1 John 5:14-15).

You are certainly free to add your prayers to mine and I am certainly not opposed to that.
 

Contending for the faith.

I noticed that the moderators of these boards want to take the boards in a direction where debate might be discouraged. My question has to do with a few verses in scripture where it seems to me that we are encouraged to contend for the faith and that when it comes to sound doctrine, debate...
christianforums.net christianforums.net
 
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