Nation shall rise against Nation

[for_his_glory]

So many dime store end time novels, so little time.

The earth, right up to the end, will appear entirely normal on the outside

Jesus comes like a thief, in the night. He won't be seen until the very end

Who's He coming to steal? You, from your own internal darkness. Right at midnight.

Luke 17:
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

As believers, we instinctively know that this can therefore happen any time. And believers for centuries have believed this to be so, instinctively.

Probably one of the most interesting end time sights is in the first chapter of Revelation:

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

They also which pierced Him? How can this be so?

Do the scriptural math here. All have sin. Romans 3:9. Sin is of the devil, 1 John 3:8

Do you think those who pierced Him were pawns of the devils? Yes, indeed they were. Yet Jesus FORGAVE THEM, because they "knew not" what they did. Why did they know not? Because they were blinded slaves of the devils.

The people involved were forgiven. The devils were not, AND are still here on earth! Ding!!!

Eyes are not only external.

Jesus gave us the location of the "evil eye" and it is where? INTERNAL

Mark 7:
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Yes, indeed Lord. Every EYE will see you, and "they" will ALL WAIL.

Some will get the pictures. Some will not, and can not.

The Arrival of the Lord transpires withIN.

IF you don't know He IS In your temple, right now, you just ain't lookin!

You said: "The earth, right up to the end, will appear entirely normal on the outside".

What about what Jesus taught in the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24:1-31 and that of God's great wrath during the seven trumpets sounding and the pouring out of the seven vials of God's wrath. Do you think these are just fairy tales to scare us!!!

 

[smaller]

You said: "The earth, right up to the end, will appear entirely normal on the outside".

What about what Jesus taught in the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24:1-31 and that of God's great wrath during the seven trumpets sounding and the pouring out of the seven vials of God's wrath. Do you think these are just fairy tales to scare us!!!

I'd suggest you have a very materialistic external take on everything

Don't you know the flood is all about this?

Habakkuk 2:14
For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

And who is this flood going to destroy?

The DEVIL and his messengers

Neither of these are going to be externally visible events. And the same could be said for the bulk of Revelation discourses

This notion that these are dire WOE IS ME calamity upon mankind is total nonsense

The "END TIME" is the end of the devil and his messengers, period

 

[for_his_glory]

I'd suggest you have a very materialistic external take on everything

Don't you know the flood is all about this?

Habakkuk 2:14
For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

And who is this flood going to destroy?

The DEVIL and his messengers

Neither of these are going to be externally visible events. And the same could be said for the bulk of Revelation discourses

This notion that these are dire WOE IS ME calamity upon mankind is total nonsense

The "END TIME" is the end of the devil and his messengers, period

Of course this is only your opinion as even Habakkuk 2:14 does not support what you say about any flood. It says as the waters cover the sea, not the whole earth. This is an analogy that represents how much of the earth that will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.

It seems you do not understand God's great wrath being poured out into the world during the seven trumpets sounding and the seven vial judgements we read about in Revelations.

Of course the end time is the end of Satan's reign as the beast and its false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire and then Satan will be cast in with them, plus everyone whose names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life will also be cast into the lake of fire

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If you do not take the wrath of God in the end of days to be literal than you will find yourself caught up in it if we are still alive at that time.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[smaller]

Of course this is only your opinion as even Habakkuk 2:14 does not support what you say about any flood. It says as the waters cover the sea, not the whole earth. This is an analogy that represents how much of the earth that will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.

It seems you do not understand God's great wrath being poured out into the world during the seven trumpets sounding and the seven vial judgements we read about in Revelations.

Of course the end time is the end of Satan's reign as the beast and its false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire and then Satan will be cast in with them, plus everyone whose names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life will also be cast into the lake of fire

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If you do not take the wrath of God in the end of days to be literal than you will find yourself caught up in it if we are still alive at that time.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I believe Revelation is, at least the bulk of it, about the end of the devil and his messengers

I do not believe it is the end of people nor do I believe we will see the end coming, as you seem to want to describe, in external fashions

The "end of the world" is in fact the end of "their world." The world owned by the devil and his messengers is the world that is coming to an end.

No, I do not have external fatalist visions, as many are proned to lean on

The eradication of the devil and his messengers is in fact an "internal matter" and it deals with unseen agents

If you pay attentions to the narratives therein, they are in fact stated as seen, "in the Spirit"

NOT in the external physical world

 

[DavidT]

"There are many and diverse governments throughout the world, and there always will be -- as God has intended" Thomas Jefferson

See how easy it is to create spurious quotes with no reference?

OK, try Cleon Skousen's 1958 book The Naked Communist. Skousen was an FBI agent for 16 years. In his book he listed 45 strategic points the Soviet Communists devised in the 1950's for takeover of the West. One of them was for a "one world government" pushed by the U.N.

You might want to check out Carroll Quigley's book Tragedy and Hope. Quigley was a Georgetown history professor, and admitted links to the "establishment" elites. He was Bill Clinton's history professor at Georgetown, and Clinton honored Quigley in his presidential inauguration speech. Quigley in his book said he was allowed for 2 years to study the secret records of the "establishment". He said he agreed with the establishment's motives, but didn't agree with it being kept secret, which they desired. Quigley had to sue his publishers to find out why they stopped printing his book Tragedy and Hope. He said his book must have said something the establishment didn't want known. One of those things in his book pointed out how the establishment often works with Communism, and has no problem doing so. And other thing he revealed was how the Council On Foreign Relations (CFR) is actually a group connected with British Socialists working in the U.S. founded by the Rhodes scholarship trust in Britain, called The Roundtable. Quigley gives the history of its working, including specific names of individuals involved. Thus Quigley is one of 'their' writers, and claimed to have been close to the establishment all his life.

That ought to keep you busy, if you dare. Most just make excuses, and don't follow up on that research. So don't ask for source material if you don't actually want it.

 

[DavidT]

Rev 13 the beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. This beast is a Luciferian system that controls world wide economics, political, military, educational and false religious system. This beast system that Satan works through gives its power to the beast out of the earth as the beast out of the earth appears as the Lamb of God, but is a false Christ being the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 with two horns. The two horns represent the Old Roman Empire that received its deadly wound back in 1798 by General Berthier who made his entrance into Rome and abolished the Roman government and established a secular one. That caused them to scatter into the other ten nations (ten horns). The wound was healed in 1929 by Mussolini.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

Lot of Preterists believe what you said.

The landscape is a lot larger though. Revelation 12:3-4 revealed a beast kingdom of old that had only seven crowns, and is timed when Satan first rebelled in drawing a third of the angels to earth with him. So when we get to Rev.13 about the endtime beast kingdom that's to have ten crowns, we're to understand it's connection with Satan's original rebellion.

Per Revelation 12:9, the "dragon" is another title for Satan himself.

Rev 13:4-8
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, "Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV

That is revealing that the false one coming will be Satan himself, in person on earth to deceive the whole world. That is why it will be a time on earth the likes that have never been before, nor will ever be again.

 

[for_his_glory]

Lot of Preterists believe what you said.

The landscape is a lot larger though. Revelation 12:3-4 revealed a beast kingdom of old that had only seven crowns, and is timed when Satan first rebelled in drawing a third of the angels to earth with him. So when we get to Rev.13 about the endtime beast kingdom that's to have ten crowns, we're to understand it's connection with Satan's original rebellion.

Per Revelation 12:9, the "dragon" is another title for Satan himself.

Rev 13:4-8
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, "Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV

That is revealing that the false one coming will be Satan himself, in person on earth to deceive the whole world. That is why it will be a time on earth the likes that have never been before, nor will ever be again.

The other sign John saw was a great red dragon meaning Satan. Remember, this is a vision and a sign as Satan has not yet been thrown out of heaven yet. The description of the dragon being great and red depicts its nature and character as being fierce and murderous, John 8:44. This red dragon is depicted as having seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. The seven heads and ten horns refer to the original ten kingdoms of which three were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:8. The last kingdom which stands greater than all the others is that of a revived Roman Empire that takes control over all the ten nations who then implements a deceiving peace treaty to a world that is in great distress. Below is that of the seven kingdoms described as four beasts in Daniel 7:1-8 and the three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn, which is the Roman Empire.

The three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:24 are the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths who were eliminated by the year 538 AD under the leadership of the Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian whose deadly wound came in 1798. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to the Pope and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty. Today the Vatican has formal diplomatic relations with almost every country in the world. We will study this more in Chapter 13.

Seven remaining nations that still exist today:

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon.

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander, the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.​

Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)

Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

The crowns on its heads show that this dragon claims royal authority against the true King who is God of all creation as he prepares to take his seat above all that which is Gods Kingdom claiming he is God as he prepares to deceive the world through that of an existing Roman Empire, Daniel 8:9-12; Isaiah 14:12-15.​

 

[for_his_glory]

That is revealing that the false one coming will be Satan himself, in person on earth to deceive the whole world. That is why it will be a time on earth the likes that have never been before, nor will ever be again.

How can Satan appear in person when he is only spirit, not flesh and blood

 

[jaybo]

How can Satan appear in person when he is only spirit, not flesh and blood

Matthew 4:2-11, "After he fasted forty days and forty nights he was famished. The tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become bread.” But he answered, “It is written, ‘Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Then the devil took him to the holy city, had him stand on the highest point of the temple, 6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written, ‘He will command his angels concerning you’ and ‘with their hands they will lift you up, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” Jesus said to him, “Once again it is written: ‘You are not to put the Lord your God to the test.’” Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their grandeur. And he said to him, “I will give you all these things if you throw yourself to the ground and worship[o] me.” Then Jesus said to him, “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘You are to worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’” Then the devil left him, and angels came and began ministering to his needs."

So apparently Satan can (and did) appear in person...

 

[for_his_glory]

Matthew 4:2-11, "After he fasted forty days and forty nights he was famished. The tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become bread.” But he answered, “It is written, ‘Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Then the devil took him to the holy city, had him stand on the highest point of the temple, 6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written, ‘He will command his angels concerning you’ and ‘with their hands they will lift you up, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” Jesus said to him, “Once again it is written: ‘You are not to put the Lord your God to the test.’” Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their grandeur. And he said to him, “I will give you all these things if you throw yourself to the ground and worship[o] me.” Then Jesus said to him, “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘You are to worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’” Then the devil left him, and angels came and began ministering to his needs."

So apparently Satan can (and did) appear in person...

Nowhere does it say he appeared in bodily form in those scriptures. You can not make scripture say what you want it to. Sure, all the movies depict Satan in bodily form tempting Christ, but do you really think that Satan can take on the form of man?

Satan, like any of Gods created angels as being disembodied spirits, can not take on human, or animal form, but can posses a human or an animals body and use them anyway he wants. This is why nation is against nation as Satan and his demons are working through others pitting these nations against each other always trying to be an earthly ruling evil power.

 

[JLB]

OK, try Cleon Skousen's 1958 book The Naked Communist. Skousen was an FBI agent for 16 years. In his book he listed 45 strategic points the Soviet Communists devised in the 1950's for takeover of the West. One of them was for a "one world government" pushed by the U.N.

You might want to check out Carroll Quigley's book Tragedy and Hope. Quigley was a Georgetown history professor, and admitted links to the "establishment" elites. He was Bill Clinton's history professor at Georgetown, and Clinton honored Quigley in his presidential inauguration speech. Quigley in his book said he was allowed for 2 years to study the secret records of the "establishment". He said he agreed with the establishment's motives, but didn't agree with it being kept secret, which they desired. Quigley had to sue his publishers to find out why they stopped printing his book Tragedy and Hope. He said his book must have said something the establishment didn't want known. One of those things in his book pointed out how the establishment often works with Communism, and has no problem doing so. And other thing he revealed was how the Council On Foreign Relations (CFR) is actually a group connected with British Socialists working in the U.S. founded by the Rhodes scholarship trust in Britain, called The Roundtable. Quigley gives the history of its working, including specific names of individuals involved. Thus Quigley is one of 'their' writers, and claimed to have been close to the establishment all his life.

That ought to keep you busy, if you dare. Most just make excuses, and don't follow up on that research. So don't ask for source material if you don't actually want it.

Thanks for your input here in our community.


You seem quite knowledgeable.


Blessings to you.




JLB

 

[n2thelight]

That is some statement! There have always been conflicts throughout world history and will continue until Jesus comes. There is no indication that now is the "last time". Matthew 24:36, “But as for that day and hour no one knows it—not even the angels in heaven—except the Father alone. "

Can't continue until Christ comes for when He returns ,they will be saying peace peace .

As long as there are wars going on Christ is not returning

 

[smaller]

How can Satan appear in person when he is only spirit, not flesh and blood

Brilliant deduction. We actually agree on this count

Jesus was pretty clear and open about the location of devils. Their location is IN MANKIND

We'd have to be asleep to miss that message

There is a world that Jesus saw, in the Spiritual realms, that Paul sometimes saw, that John saw, that most of us do not see into all that often, if ever

That is also where Satan is "perceived" to be

The majority of the world is asleep, under Satan's control, right here, right now, and it has been this way for the world of the flesh from day 1 of mankind

Eph. 2:2

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

The only difference between a believer and an unbeliever on this count, is that we see, AND AVOID

Anyone who can't see that the spirit of disobedience is running this world isn't paying much attention

 

[for_his_glory]

Brilliant deduction. We actually agree on this count

Jesus was pretty clear and open about the location of devils. Their location is IN MANKIND

We'd have to be asleep to miss that message

There is a world that Jesus saw, in the Spiritual realms, that Paul sometimes saw, that John saw, that most of us do not see into all that often, if ever

That is also where Satan is "perceived" to be

The majority of the world is asleep, under Satan's control, right here, right now, and it has been this way for the world of the flesh from day 1 of mankind

Eph. 2:2

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

The only difference between a believer and an unbeliever on this count, is that we see, AND AVOID

Anyone who can't see that the spirit of disobedience is running this world isn't paying much attention

Is the spirit of disobedience found within one who is walking in the Spirit as the Holy Spirit guides them? No, as it is impossible when one is indwelled with the Holy Spirit within the workings of the inner man that consist of our mind, heart, soul and Spirit, Romans 7:22; 2 Corinthians 4:16; Ephesians 3:16.

What is your fascination with Satan as we are no longer of the world or a follower after the prince of the power of the air who was cast down to weaken the nations, Isaiah 14:12.

Do you allow Satan to come into you and tempt you? I know I and many others would never allow him to temp us to the point that we would fall to his temptations. Satan is not omniscient nor can he read our thoughts as this is found nowhere in scripture no matter how one tries to make scripture line up with their theories. Demons can not induce evil thoughts directly into human minds, but they can posse a body, but never the body of a Spiritually born again child of God.

We are no longer of this world, but because we still live in it Satan will always try to buffet us just like that of Paul's thorn in the flesh, 2 Corinthians 12:1-10.

John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1John 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.


Nation always has risen against nation and will continue until all things are subject unto Christ and His enemy becomes His footstool.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'd suggest you have a very materialistic external take on everything

Don't you know the flood is all about this?

Habakkuk 2:14
For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

And who is this flood going to destroy?

The DEVIL and his messengers

Neither of these are going to be externally visible events. And the same could be said for the bulk of Revelation discourses

This notion that these are dire WOE IS ME calamity upon mankind is total nonsense

The "END TIME" is the end of the devil and his messengers, period

So what are you saying here, that there will be no great wrath of God and the seven trumpets of God's great wrath being poured out into the world in the end of days are just a fairy tale stories?

Don't you know what the flood was all about?

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Jesus gave us an outline in Matthew 24:1-35 of all the things which must come first before He returns as these are very real events as we see many of them right before our eyes.

Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Are these words of Christ in Matthew 24:1-35 also part of the fairy tales you seem to believe as in what God gave Jesus to speak and also sent an angel to John revealing to him all the end time events clear up to the ushering down of the New Jerusalem.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

 

[DavidT]

How can Satan appear in person when he is only spirit, not flesh and blood

I must have missed this one.

You mean you don't really... believe God's Word about angels appearing with the image of man upon this earth? scripture like in Genesis 18 & 19?

There's two dimensions of existence written of in God's Word. His Word doesn't call them dimensions but that's what they are, one that is of the earthly, and one that is of Spirit.

When the angels appear on earth, they are not in flesh bodies. Yet they have the image of man because... that is God's Own Image. The form of man's image actually originates from God's Likeness in the Heavenly (Genesis 1:26-27).

Satan himself is a heavenly cherub, yet he still has the image of man like all angels do. Just as the angels that appeared to Lot in Genesis 19 were seen even by the wicked with the image of man, so likewise will Satan appear on earth in our dimension with the image of man. God even calls him a man in Isaiah 14.

And going deeper, in the world to come, it is not going to be a time in flesh bodies like this present world. Many brethren struggle with the old Jewish tradition about dead flesh being raised to a new 'fleshy' body for the resurrection, when that is not at all what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15. So a lot of the old Jewish traditions are like the old bottles that will break if you try to put the new wine in them.

 

[DavidT]

The other sign John saw was a great red dragon meaning Satan. Remember, this is a vision and a sign as Satan has not yet been thrown out of heaven yet. The description of the dragon being great and red depicts its nature and character as being fierce and murderous, John 8:44. This red dragon is depicted as having seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. The seven heads and ten horns refer to the original ten kingdoms of which three were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:8. The last kingdom which stands greater than all the others is that of a revived Roman Empire that takes control over all the ten nations who then implements a deceiving peace treaty to a world that is in great distress. Below is that of the seven kingdoms described as four beasts in Daniel 7:1-8 and the three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn, which is the Roman Empire.
​

Still symbols for something literal, even though a vision.
Satan is thrown out of God's Presence at this point, because that is specifically what his drawing of a third of the angels to earth with him was about, i.e., his original rebellion in wanting to be God. Can't get around that idea here because of the first part of verse 4.

The red dragon possessed, or controlled... ten horns, seven heads, and seven crowns. He... was not those things literally. Just as Rev.13 uses the personal pronoun of "his" when speaking about the ten horns, seven heads... etc., that doesn't mean those things are 'him' literally, but instead, he possesses them. The ten horns we are told later represent 10 kings, so it's silly to say things like 'he is ten horns, and seven heads, and seven crowns'. No, it's 'he possesses, or controls... ten horns, seven heads, and seven crowns'. That is the idea of the beast kingdom and the beast king, from the Book of Daniel.

And no, the ten kings in that specific Revelation 12:4 verse is NOT... about those in the Book of Daniel that says Antichrist will subdue 3 of them. The event of Revelation 12:4 about that red dragon (Satan) drawing a third of the stars (angels) to earth (at his original rebellion), was LONG BEFORE the historical nations of this world.

Not really going to get into it, but the old Roman empire was represented by the legs of iron in Daniel 2, and is not the final beast kingdom of ten toes of clay mixed with iron. That old Roman empire is no more. And it certainly is NOT the Catholic Church. I know that's what you're being taught, but you are being lied to.

 

[JLB]

That is some statement! There have always been conflicts throughout world history and will continue until Jesus comes. There is no indication that now is the "last time". Matthew 24:36, “But as for that day and hour no one knows it—not even the angels in heaven—except the Father alone. "

Do you understand what Jesus was saying by His statement... "But as for that day and hour no one knows it—not even the angels in heaven—except the Father alone. "



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

I must have missed this one.

You mean you don't really... believe God's Word about angels appearing with the image of man upon this earth? scripture like in Genesis 18 & 19?

There's two dimensions of existence written of in God's Word. His Word doesn't call them dimensions but that's what they are, one that is of the earthly, and one that is of Spirit.

When the angels appear on earth, they are not in flesh bodies. Yet they have the image of man because... that is God's Own Image. The form of man's image actually originates from God's Likeness in the Heavenly (Genesis 1:26-27).

Satan himself is a heavenly cherub, yet he still has the image of man like all angels do. Just as the angels that appeared to Lot in Genesis 19 were seen even by the wicked with the image of man, so likewise will Satan appear on earth in our dimension with the image of man. God even calls him a man in Isaiah 14.

And going deeper, in the world to come, it is not going to be a time in flesh bodies like this present world. Many brethren struggle with the old Jewish tradition about dead flesh being raised to a new 'fleshy' body for the resurrection, when that is not at all what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15. So a lot of the old Jewish traditions are like the old bottles that will break if you try to put the new wine in them.

Angels are incarnate in human form at times (Genesis 18:2-8) for the purpose of ministry, but I believe only God can give them human form. I have never read in the scriptures where any angel, including Satan and his hoard of angels that follow after him, can supernaturally take on human form by themselves as I believe only God can give them human form for the purpose of His ministry here on earth, but I could be wrong as I can't find any scripture on this.

Satan, being a fallen angel, is a powerful spiritual force, but not as powerful as God and his power, unlike God's power, his will come to an end.

Nations will rise against nations as they always have and will increase in the end of days as the workings of Satan are done through men that have not the Spirit of God dwelling in them.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

[for_his_glory]

The red dragon possessed, or controlled... ten horns, seven heads, and seven crowns. He... was not those things literally. Just as Rev.13 uses the personal pronoun of "his" when speaking about the ten horns, seven heads... etc., that doesn't mean those things are 'him' literally, but instead, he possesses them. The ten horns we are told later represent 10 kings, so it's silly to say things like 'he is ten horns, and seven heads, and seven crowns'. No, it's 'he possesses, or controls... ten horns, seven heads, and seven crowns'. That is the idea of the beast kingdom and the beast king, from the Book of Daniel.

Satan has always controlled that of the four different Empires being the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Grecian and the Roman Empire that we read about in Daniel 7 that have always persecuted God's own.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

The Roman Empire began in 753BC by Romulus who founded Rome in 27BC with Augustus Caesar becoming the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD. Rome controlled over two million square miles stretching from the Rhine River to Egypt and from Britain (England) to Asia Minor which made up the Grecian Empire of Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt. In 146BC the Romans destroyed Corinth during the Battle of Corinth and made the Greece Empire into a province of the Roman Empire. This timeline goes from 753BC to 27BC. Nero burned Rome in 64AD and blamed the Christian community in the city causing the Roman Empires first persecution of Christians. In 1453 was the rise of the Ottoman Empire that conquered Constantinople destroying the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) that reigned from 330AD to 1453AD. The Roman Empire was then called the Holy Roman Empire that was a political entity beginning in 800AD - 1806AD from the time of Charlemagne (Holy Roman Emperor) who protected Pope Leo III from Adrian's supporters in Rome to Francis II, King of France. Pope Pius VII was the Pope from 1800-1823. The Roman Empire is known today as Vatican City, a city-state surrounded by Rome and Italy who has diplomatic relations with every nation around the world.

The crowns on its heads show that this dragon claims royal authority against the true King who is God of all creation as he prepares to take his seat above all that which is Gods Kingdom claiming he is God as he prepares to deceive the world through that of an existing Roman Empire, Daniel 8:9-12; Isaiah 14:12-15.

The beast rises up out of the sea, Rev 13, as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:15-28.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (Germans in Great Britain), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

The beast out of the earth, Rev 13:11-18, is the revived Roman Empire (mystery Babylon, Rev 17:5) which causes man to take its mark. Daniel 7:25 and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, He will think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-12.

And no, the ten kings in that specific Revelation 12:4 verse is NOT... about those in the Book of Daniel that says Antichrist will subdue 3 of them. The event of Revelation 12:4 about that red dragon (Satan) drawing a third of the stars (angels) to earth (at his original rebellion), was LONG BEFORE the historical nations of this world.

Can you tell us who these ten kings are since you say they are not the ones found in Daniel 7?

Not really going to get into it, but the old Roman empire was represented by the legs of iron in Daniel 2, and is not the final beast kingdom of ten toes of clay mixed with iron. That old Roman empire is no more. And it certainly is NOT the Catholic Church. I know that's what you're being taught, but you are being lied to.

I never said it was the Catholic Church, but that needs to be a new thread as it is very involved in explanation.

BTW, I allow no man teach me apart from the Holy Spirit teaching them first as I do not believe the lies of Satan, but scripture only.