What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

National Israel is cursed forever !

Son of Israel said:
veteran said:
And here's Apostle Paul's perspective on the matter, which some apparently have a hard time wanting to include in their understanding...

Rom 11:24-29
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(KJV)

Rom 11:30-32
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.
(KJV)

Thus it is NOT Biblical, and not Christian Doctrine, to claim even non-believing Israel is cursed forever.
Click to expand...

Veteran, I am a Jew who received Christ and see that Paul's words above that you quoted refer to me and others like me aka the "remnant". We are the only true Israel because we received Christ.
No matter how hard you might try you can't force them into some private interpretive endtime futuristic prophetic application.

This O.P. is about whether those who call themselves "Israel" in the middle east ARE Israel. As students of the Word, we know that THEY are not.

(Rom 9:6) Not as though the word of God hath taken none "effect". For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Its a no brainer.

The only means by which the Word of God has "effect" or "meaning" is by receiving Christ and becoming Israel which has been going on for 2000 years now.

It's called, "The Gospel".

It appears that you are attempting to nullify scripture meaning and replace it by endorsing the "dispensationalism" theory started in Glasgow Scotland in 1830 and perpetuated by false teachers like Scofield.

Throw that stuff away, it is a "Jewish fable" and has no reason to exist than to rob the Church of Her Israel heritage and hand it over to those in bondage and wickedness in their antichrist existence.

(2Ti 4:4) And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
(Tit 1:14) Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

National Israel is fully and indisputably antichrist down through time since Christ and is to this day...

(2Jn 1:7) For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Don't be decieived!

Love in Christ,

Son of Israel (NOT the middle east "Israel" lol)
Click to expand...

Hi , and Dispensationalism does not get rid of Israel and we keep Israel separate from the church and the New Covenant that she will receive when entering the Millennial Kingdom , and I am one of those Dispensationalist and the word OIKOKOMIA is in the bible and is original word in the Greek text , for over 2000 years .

If all say that you are in Christ , brother , you are no longer a Jew , and Rom 10:12 , " There is no difference between the Jew and the Greek , for we are all one in the Body of Christ .
 
rom 11:

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

By casting away the Nation of Israel, that is causing the National Covenant to cease, has God cast away His True Covenant People ? Ain't no way, for National Israel in and of itself was never Gods chosen Covenant people from a salvation stand point..

vs 2a

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

All them Jews in National Israel were not those whom God foreknew in Christ to be conformed to His Image as per rom 8:

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


Those within national Israel He did not cast away, that would be the very small remnant belonging to the election of grace, even as Paul was one of those favored Jews..

Many ethnic Jews from that nation will hear these words, as so will many gentiles who were not foreknown :

Matt 7:

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you or foreknew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So by casting away National Israel as His Covenant People Nationally, is by no means casting away His beloved covenant people in christ..They are Two different people..
 
I think this term "National Israel" has some confused. I don't know who came up with it, but the way some are using it here is not written in The Bible. If someone came up with it to show difference today with the nation of Israel vs. the future state of Israel in God's Kingdom to come under Christ, then that can cause confusion also, for nations are mentioned in God's Word even AFTER... Christ's coming.

So the real debate seems to be, are those of unbelieving flesh born Israel truly God's people? The answer for today is yes, they are, because today is STILL about the covenants and promises God gave to Israel. Those promises WILL continue in Israel all the way until Christ returns, even upon those of Israel that still refuse Christ Jesus. Why? Because the end of the world does not happen until Christ comes.

Here's an example of why that is. In 1 Kings 11, God promised that He would always leave one tribe of Israel in Jerusalem, for Jerusalem's sake, and His servant David's sake. That promise is not tied to whether those have accepted Christ Jesus or not, because it's a promise to the "house of Judah" in Jerusalem for this world time.

But what happens when Christ comes? They will be cut off IF they are still in unbelief. The end is not yet today, and NONE of us know how many of them will turn and come to Christ before His coming. Thus speaking like they are all doomed to perish today is speaking hot air, and with no authority in Christ Jesus, and totally forgets the lesson our Lord gave in the parable of the tares in the field, that the separating of His sheep from the goats won't happen until the harvest time.
 
vet:

So the real debate seems to be, are those of unbelieving flesh born Israel truly God's people?
Click to expand...

No, no more than sodom and gommorah..
 
rom 4:11-12 -

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

rom 4:

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Abraham is the Father of both the circumcision [ the ethnic jews] and the uncircumcision [ the non jew or gentile] if they walk by His Faith as per rom 4:12..

This is important to understand in light of rom 11:

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes

What Paul is teaching here the gentiles, that National Israel has been cut off and enemies for the Divine purpose of gruffing in the gentile elect into Covenant Israel, however but for the Fathers sakes [ Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob ] who were ethnic Jews [ and represented Covenant Israel ] there are still ethnic Jews within National Israel, that are beloved of God as their fathers were beloved of God, which will fulfill God's promises to them on the ethnic Jew side. So from a soterilogical stand point God was not finished with National Israel in that He was not going to convert individual Jews from that Nation, because He was, for even still there was in her an election of grace for the Fathers sake..but He was finished with Her as a Nation as a whole as His National Covenant People..

So Abraham is just as much the Father of Gentile believers [ uncircumcised] as He is of Jewish believers [ the circumcision]

Get this, I as a gentile but a believer in Christ, I have just as much a right to call Abraham my Father, as a ethnic Jew does..

And all these combined [ both Jewish believers and gentile believers] constitute all Israel [rom 11:26 a ] or the Israel of God [ gal 6:16] which Abraham is the Father of them All, both Jew and Gentile believers..
 
rom 4:11-12 continued -

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now continuing where I left off on this very important topic, which I show that both ethnic Jews and gentiles who are believers in Christ are in Fact the Children or the Seed of Abraham..

Now even though ethnic jews as unbelievers, do sustain a relationship to Abraham be it physical [ see jn 8:37] according to the flesh [ rom 9 :8] this relationship alone means nothing to God, for they [ jews] which are children of the flesh ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD !

And please just do not take my word for this, but how about the Word of God rom 9:

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

They never have been neither ever will be.. A ethnic Jew who is not a believer in Christ has just as much a relationship with God as a native pgymie african in the deepest darkest jungle who is an unbeliever..and both are totally separated from God.. In other words, non elect Jews and non elect gentiles are the same in Gods eyes, mere heathens and children of the devil, and elect Jews and elect gentiles are the same in Gods eyes, beloved of Him from the foundation.. Its not race that establishes a spiritual relationship with God, but Grace, the Election of Grace, Being of the children of Promise !
 
rom 9:

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel [elect], which are of Israel [corporate or national]:

The setting aside of corporate Israel or National Israel, did not negate the eternal promises of elect Israel or the election of grace in corporate or national Israel.

National or corporate Israel was not Israel [ to which the promises were made] but elect Israel [ the remnant according to the election of grace] or The Israel of God.

The Israel in blindness and cut off, was not the Israel to which the everlasting promises were made; The elect or chosen people of God to which the promises were made, has always been a remnant and very small one in corporate or national Israel.

rom 9:27

Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Thats always been God's purpose.
 
God has not cast away His People [ In National Israel] whom He foreknew ! rom 11:

1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

Notice, paul aske the question, has God cast away His People, not His Nation, but the elect people whom He foreknew in Christ, who He predestinated [ like paul] unto the Image of His Son.

rom 8:

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

All the jews in National or Corporate Israel were not foreknown by God or Christ, but only the election of Grace.

All the purposes and promises of God are sure to all the seed by Grace not Race.

The jews as a nation fell into a false security of obtaining Gods Favour by race.

matt 3:

9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
 
You're confused with men's traditions against the word 'Jew', which name comes from the sole tribe of Judah, which began to be used for a remnant of three tribes that returned from Babylon, i.e., Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. The MAJORITY of Israelites had already been scattered out of the land of Israel by the time Judah went captive to Babylon. Read your Bible history.

And one has to include more of what Paul was saying in Romans 9 to understand, not just a little piece of it...

Rom 9:3-13
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
(KJV)

In that, Paul is giving a comparison between Jacob and Esau, both sons of Isaac. WHICH seed did the Promise continue through? JACOB. Esau profaned God's Birthright, and traded it to Jacob for a bowl of beans. Esau was born in The Promise as a firstborn, but he didn't receive it. Furthermore, Paul shows there how even before either child was born, the younger Jacob would receive The Promise, and it would not be according to flesh firstborn Esau. Likewise with Ishmael, since Ishmael also was a son of Abraham, even a firstborn of Abraham of Hagar, but not the firstborn Isaac of Abraham and Sarah.

Likewise with Jacob, The Promise continued through a remnant of his seed that believed, and the rest who refused are as Esau and Ishmael.

But what of Israel that did believe? They continued in the Promise to Abraham, and in the oracles and promises God gave to Israel, which is all still.... manifested on this earth today, just not in Jerusalem. That's where Romans 11:1-5 was given by Paul to show that Israel cannot be dumped out of God's Plan of Salvation through His Son, something the Gentile Churches are constantly trying to do in order to pump theirselves up over them.

Paul even WARNED Gentiles in Romans 11 about being conceited and puffed up against Israel, even against unbelieving Israel that still might turn and come to Christ Jesus before He comes. So instead of condemning the unbelieving of Israel today, we are supposed to be trying to bring them to Christ, and not show how 'saved' WE are just because many of them are still in unbelief!
 
In this Romans 11 chapter, Apostle Paul gives more clarification of how The Promise to Abraham by Faith involves flesh Israel...

Rom 11:1-36
1 I say then, Hath God cast away His people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Has God cast away His people of flesh Israel? That's what Apostle Paul is asking there. "God forbid", he says, and you might want to heed that. Paul then declares he himself is of the flesh seed of Abraham, specifically born of the tribe of Benjamin. He's saying that as proof how God has not cast away all flesh born Israelites.

2 God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how He maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed Thy prophets, and digged down Thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Who are the people which God "foreknew"? Flesh Israel, call them "national Israel" if you want. Sorry, can't just change this to read spiritual Israel only, for what Paul says here is specifically about a 'seed' of flesh Israel. Paul then recalls how Elijah complained to God that he alone was left in following Him. But what did God say? He said He had reserved, and let's stop for a second and think about that. GOD RESERVED seven thousand of flesh Israel to Himself that had not bowed to Baal in false worship. In other words, God Himself reserved that remnant, no man did it. He did that per His promises to Israel, that they would NEVER cease to be His people, like the Book of Jeremiah also showed.

Then Paul shows, "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace." Election of Grace; does that mean they chose God first? No. It means God chose them, and that remnant is per HIS CALLING. He is NOT going to go back on His Promise to Israel, is what it's about, even though many of Israel fell away.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Paul then shows God did that according to His Grace, and NOT of their own works. His preservation of a remnant of flesh Israel that believed has ALWAYS been according to His Grace, even in Old Testament times. NONE can remove the seed of Israel in that. Only God can.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

Does Paul mean all Israel there? No, of course not, for he just testified of a remnant of Israel which God Himself reserved as a remnant according to the election of grace.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

That part there, is about unbelieving Israel; those of Israel which fell away. And it's especially important to note that God gave those the "spirit of slumber", closed their spiritual eyes and ears, even unto Paul's day and time. Just as God reserved a remnant of Israel to Himself, He likewise blinded the rest. And Paul is going to show why in the next verses...

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

That "spirit of slumber" God put upon the rest of Israel was so His Salvation could go to the Gentiles, and to provoke unbelieving Israel to jealousy. Now why would God want to provoke them to jealousy?

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Paul's talking about provoking the unbelieving of Israel so that at least some of them might turn to Christ and be saved. In the spiritual sense, the unbelieving of Israel are 'dead', and their coming to Christ would be like life from the dead. But don't get pumped up, because the unbelieving Gentiles are 'dead' also in the same sense.

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

The Root is Holy, so are the branches. The believing Gentiles represent a "wild olive tree" that is graffed in AMONG THEM, meaning among BELIEVING ISRAEL, the remnant God reserved. And the Gentile believers WITH THEM partake of the Root and fatness of the olive tree. Paul shows right there, we Gentile believers can never be separated from flesh believing Israel which God preserved according the election of grace. We both together, are to be one in Christ Jesus. There is only One Root Jesus Christ, not two Roots like one for Israel and another for Gentiles (Eph.2:11-12 comes to mind).

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Thus Paul says, "Boast not against the branches." That means we Gentiles are not to boast against the natural branches of Israel.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest He also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in His goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Paul gives specific conditions there for us Gentiles to REMAIN as branches graffed in. It is "if thou continue in His goodness". Boasting against the natural branches of Israel is not a way to continue in God's Grace of His goodness. It shows jealousy against the remnant of flesh Israel which God reserved.


23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

What? If one born of flesh Israel turns to Christ and believes on His Blood shed on the cross, God is able to graff those into the Root again? YES. Does that mean into the branches of the wild olive tree, the Gentiles? NO!

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Listen up. Paul says those of flesh Israel that turn and come to Christ are "graffed into their own olive tree", since he also says they are the "natural branches". THAT means, back into God's original promises He gave to Israel, which INCLUDES the inheritances of the land, the kingdom, etc. God's Promises never ceased, and nor has Israel as a people ceased, which also is one of His promises.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Uh, does that mean when "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in", more of flesh Israel is going to be turned to Christ? YES! That also, is one of God's promises per the Old Testament prophets. That's even where Paul is going to quote from in the next verse...

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Jer.31:31 is just one of MANY OT Scriptures where that is written. End of Jer.33 is another, Ezek.34, 37, 39:25, Isa.11; Ezek.47-48; Hosea 3; Joel 3; Amos 9; Micah 7; Zeph.3; Zech.10, and those are only a few.


28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

How can flesh unbelieving Israel still be beloved to God? Because He chose Israel above all other nations in the beginning, He called them as His elect. Notice Paul shows clearly these are about unbelieving Israel, those whom God blinded, because these "concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes", meaning for the sakes of us Gentiles, so God's Salvation could also go to us and not just flesh Israel.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.

Who can't understand that? In times past we Gentiles were as strangers from the covenants of Promise, outcasts from God's Plan of Salvation through His Son. Yet WE obtained 'mercy' by the unbelief of many of Israel. THAT is what their unbelief and the blindness of "spirit of slumber" God caused upon them is all... about.

And NOW, it is through OUR MERCY in Christ Jesus, that THEY also may... obtain MERCY. God did this so that His MERCY might go to ALL. So thinking all unbelieving flesh Israel is now condemned goes totally against what Paul taught here in Romans 11. It ain't over until Christ comes.

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been His counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto Him again?

Who gave Israel to God in the first place? None did, He chose them. So who can give Israel back to Him if they have always belonged to Him?

36 For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: to Whom be glory for ever. Amen.
(KJV)
 
I really want to read what you guys have to say, but your posts are SO long, that it breaks my enthusiasm.

This is the internet and people read "little bites" because there is so much info in one day, we want to get to it all in one day. I just skip over long post and go on to the next.

C
 
Those who live by the flesh will die. All temporal nations are already judged. There are many who favour the temporal nation presently called Israel as being God's chosen. They choose the natural over the spiritual. They also believe the church is any building that says "church" on it! Hypnosis is a powerful force that fills the empty spiritual void.
 
So Paul is correcting a misunderstanding, that the promises of God to Israel [ election of grace] have not been abrogated, but that those promises were not to national / corporate Israel, that which was blinded, but to Israel [ the election of grace] of which He was privileged to be part of, even as an ethnic Jew.

rom 11:

1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

So what Paul was Illustrating, that Gods promises to Israel [ election of grace] was still being kept by the conversion of ethnic Jews like himself. So its a mistake to say God has forsaken the promises to Israel [ the election ] because he is done with the nation.

For each ethnic Jew, who as Paul, belongs to those who are foreknown in Christ, will experience conversion from their unbelief as He did.

1 tim 1:

13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Paul is saying, that each Jew like me, who was ignorant [ rom 10:3] and unbelieving, if they be of the foreknown in Christ [rom 8:29] they too will experience the grace of the Lord being exceeding abundant towards them bringing faith to replace unbelief.
 
Rom 11:

2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

Its Two Israels according to rom 9:6, and so there is one that God foreknew [ the election of grace, chosen in Christ from the foundation] and there is the one He did not foreknow[ National Israel], not chosen in Christ before the foundation.

The Israel He foreknew, His people, are the people of His He [Jesus] shall save from their sins Matt 1:

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people[Israel] from their sins.

Thats what Paul means when he declared that God hath raised up a Saviour unto Israel acts 13:

23Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Not Israel of the flesh, or National/ Corporate Israel, but Israel according to promise , the children of Israel of promise rom 9:

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh[National Israel], these are not the children of God: but the children [elect Israel] of the promise are counted for the seed.

God hath not cast away the children of promise within National Corporate Israel, The children of promise are who all the promises were made to, not to Israel after the flesh.
 
So Paul is correcting a misunderstanding, that the promises of God to Israel [ election of grace] have not been abrogated, but that those promises were not to national / corporate Israel, that which was blinded, but to Israel [ the election of grace] of which He was privileged to be part of, even as an ethnic Jew.

rom 11:

1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

So what Paul was Illustrating, that Gods promises to Israel [ election of grace] was still being kept by the conversion of ethnic Jews like himself. So its a mistake to say God has forsaken the promises to Israel [ the election ] because he is done with the nation.

For each ethnic Jew, who as Paul, belongs to those who are foreknown in Christ, will experience conversion from their unbelief as He did.

1 tim 1:

13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Paul is saying, that each Jew like me, who was ignorant [ rom 10:3] and unbelieving, if they be of the foreknown in Christ [rom 8:29] they too will experience the grace of the Lord being exceeding abundant towards them bringing faith to replace unbelief.
 
Rom 11:

2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

Its Two Israels according to rom 9:6, and so there is one that God foreknew [ the election of grace, chosen in Christ from the foundation] and there is the one He did not foreknow [ National Israel], not chosen in Christ before the foundation.

The Israel He foreknew, His people, are the people of His He [Jesus] shall save from their sins Matt 1:

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people[Israel] from their sins.

Thats what Paul means when he declared that God hath raised up a Saviour unto Israel acts 13:

23Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Not Israel of the flesh, or National/ Corporate Israel, but Israel according to promise , the children of Israel of promise rom 9:

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh[National Israel], these are not the children of God: but the children [elect Israel] of the promise are counted for the seed.

God hath not cast away the children of promise within National Corporate Israel, The children of promise are who all the promises were made to, not to Israel after the flesh.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top