NC bans gay marriage and the liberals flood facebook!

[Fedusenko]

Why is homosexual practice such a horrid sin, yet other commands regarding the law are "obsolete". Can someone explain the inconsistancy?

 

[Milk-Drops]

Having sex with the same gender is a sin in the Bible, but the reason why its such a big hullabaloo is due to politics and a puritanical fear/obsession with controlling sex in this country that dates back before its creation. This entire issue has been made into a huge emotional mess due to politicians on both sides using it to bolster voting ranks. Democrats because they want to win votes from LGBT, and Republicans because they have that Social Conservatism things that turns off most of the younger generation and seems to have this issue with controlling minorities and young people through legislation.

I just don't see why this is such a huge deal. 2 people want to sign a contract that binds them legaly under the law. They due this as a sign of commitment. Many CHristians and older folks don't seem to understand that the State isn't the Church. And a bunch of other week arguments there.

Now that the president has come out as supporting gay marriage. I have a feeling a federal recognition of gay marriages is on its way.

 

[Milk-Drops]

The biggest irony of what has happened in NC is that this amendment was only partially about gay marriage. The amendment also took health care away from Single parents, unmarried couples, and away from children of single parents. There is more but I think those are the most important.

That part of the bill was never talked about openly, but the Social Conservatives in NC really pushed the Gay marriage angle. Even though Ironically it was already illegal for NC to marry 2 people of the same gender. HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA so in short the Republicans of NC used the Gay Hate to take benefits away from single parents and non married people. Probably a huge base of who voted.

 

[handy]

I agree that the Church's response to homosexuality is inconsistent on a lot of levels.

My main thing about same-sex marriage and homosexuality in general is that it really isn't something that the Church should be all that concerned about.

For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves. 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

If I'm filling out a ballot and it asks me to vote yay or nay on gay marriage, I'll vote nay, because I don't believe we need to redefine marriage. However, whether or not the state recognizes the relationship between two men as a legal union is really none of my business.

Now, as for when the Church begins to condone and recognize gay unions... now that's something we need to stand up about...

But the state? God will judge all of that.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I think handy is right on the money. I think Christians use up way too much political capital going after certain causes and we end up looking like self-righteous, controlling, judgmental people, when I think the better thing to do would be to use time and resources to offer people better alternatives.

 

[Fedusenko]

Better alternatives regarding?

 

[stovebolts]

I look at this whole thing from a completely different perspective. For me, it's about family.

Did you know that most kids in elementary school are from broken families? The divorce rate in this country is horrible. It's like we are becoming a society that is filled with me, me and more me. Even the idea of entitlements to the extent of our young children going crazy.

For example, when I was younger, it was an embarrassment to get on food stamps, yet recently if you were a college student, it was "cool" to have a bridge card. What in the world does this have anything to do with gay marriage your asking right?

Well, you see this so much in divorced families where the kids live with Mom and Mom either stays single, but more often marries again. Her new husband doesn't take the primary role of father with his step kids and good old biological Dad becomes the kids best friend and Mom is just a nag and the family gets torn further apart and the kid never really learns what commitment looks like and each generation, this sense of entitlement goes up, and so does the rate of divorce. Is it any wonder why we have so many couples just shacking up, and it doesn't help when it's financially to their benefit not to marry come tax time.

Marriage... it's been falling apart since the 50's. And we call ourselves a progressive nation. Marriage was the foundation of this country when it was a family oriented nation. But our actions as a nation have been eroding the family, and I would suggest eroding our nation as we become more selfish and self centered and accountability, responsibility and commitment take second seat with a variety of self justifications.

All of this, and is it a wonder that Gay Marriage is actually a serious discussion. I would submit that if it were not for the decay of the family in this nation, the idea of gay marriage would turn most stomachs. Yet even in NC, 30% agreed with gay marriage. I doubt it would have gotten that kind of support 30 years ago, and I'll bet that most who support gay marriage came from blended families.

 

[Fedusenko]

While that is the arguement I have against promoting homosexuality, Jeff, it still doesn't adress the issue of picking and choosing which part of the Law to follow.

 

[Mike S]

I agree that the Church's response to homosexuality is inconsistent on a lot of levels.

My main thing about same-sex marriage and homosexuality in general is that it really isn't something that the Church should be all that concerned about.

For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves. 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

If I'm filling out a ballot and it asks me to vote yay or nay on gay marriage, I'll vote nay, because I don't believe we need to redefine marriage. However, whether or not the state recognizes the relationship between two men as a legal union is really none of my business.

Now, as for when the Church begins to condone and recognize gay unions... now that's something we need to stand up about...

But the state? God will judge all of that.

Christians always have, and always will, live in a secular world that permits - even encourages - sinful behavior, but we don't have to approve of it. We are "in the world" but not "of the world."

 

[Milk-Drops]

Did you know that most kids in elementary school are from broken families? The divorce rate in this country is horrible. It's like we are becoming a society that is filled with me, me and more me. Even the idea of entitlements to the extent of our young children going crazy.

Then you'll be happy to know that the real purpose of NC Amendment was to take away benefit programs from Single parent households. So that fixes your entitlement thing.

For example, when I was younger, it was an embarrassment to get on food stamps, yet recently if you were a college student, it was "cool" to have a bridge card. What in the world does this have anything to do with gay marriage your asking right?

Absolutely nothing because it dosen't address any of the pros or Cons of gay people marrying. Nothing at all, just a rant about your distaste for single parent homes and the programs there for them.

Well, you see this so much in divorced families where the kids live with Mom and Mom either stays single, but more often marries again. Her new husband doesn't take the primary role of father with his step kids and good old biological Dad becomes the kids best friend and Mom is just a nag and the family gets torn further apart and the kid never really learns what commitment looks like and each generation, this sense of entitlement goes up, and so does the rate of divorce. Is it any wonder why we have so many couples just shacking up, and it doesn't help when it's financially to their benefit not to marry come tax time.

None of this is the fault of gay people and your example is extreme because I've met plenty of step parents who love their children completely.

Marriage... it's been falling apart since the 50's. And we call ourselves a progressive nation. Marriage was the foundation of this country when it was a family oriented nation.

No, religious freedom and no taxation without representation is the foundation of this country. Do strong familes benefit a growing child? Yes, but its not always the nuclear family structure.

But our actions as a nation have been eroding the family, and I would suggest eroding our nation as we become more selfish and self centered and accountability, responsibility and commitment take second seat with a variety of self justifications.

Once again, this has nothing to do with Gay people. You are pushing blame off the individual families and putting it on a group that has nothing to do with YOUR problem.

All of this, and is it a wonder that Gay Marriage is actually a serious discussion.

Because its a serious legal issue and has relevance to current legal standing. That is the reality. Its not the fault of Gay people.

I would submit that if it were not for the decay of the family in this nation, the idea of gay marriage would turn most stomachs.

Sorry, no. Gay peopel and people who don't have irrational fear of them won't agree with you.

Yet even in NC, 30% agreed with gay marriage. I doubt it would have gotten that kind of support 30 years ago, and I'll bet that most who support gay marriage came from blended families.

Or those of us that understand that gay people aren't paria and that signing a contract that makes them a bonded entity under the law has nothing to do with divorce rates in this country.

 

[stovebolts]

Meatballsub,

I understand that you won't be able to see my point of view. That's ok, I'm not about to force you to see my view. But actually, everything I wrote about has to do with the family structure and how a healthy family ideally would function to form what I would view as a healthy society.

If we dwindle it down, everything I wrote about above shows how the core of a family is torn apart. I grew up in an orphanage, and then foster homes and then eventually I ended up living with my dad, then into the institutions again. I understand from that perspective how dysfunctional a family has to operate just to manage the issues.

Ideally, the foundation of a family is centered upon the marriage. It has been shown that children need both a mother and a father and each parent serves a specific role in raising the child. When either is absent or one isn't performing their parenting duties, it leaves a void developmentally upon that child and often, that void is often filled with selfish ambition.

Where has the day gone where a child is taught from his Father what responsibility and commitment looks like? IMO, it's as easy to get a divorce as it is to get married because we've bought into the excuse that every one cheats on their spouse and that we deserve better. Both of these ideals contribute to the rate of divorce and has weakened the ideology of what a family should look like... even to the point of seriously thinking that two males, or even two females can be considered a marriage.

If you want a true separation of church and state, then make it clear that a civil union is sanctified by the state, and Marriage is sanctified by God. But understand when a society turns to far away from biblical principals, it always ends to that empires own destruction as history has shown time and time again.

 

[stovebolts]

While that is the arguement I have against promoting homosexuality, Jeff, it still doesn't adress the issue of picking and choosing which part of the Law to follow.

Hi Fedusenko,
I'm not following your line of thought.

 

[Classik]

I still remember that teacher. He told us: like charges repel and unlike charges attract.

How about man? I should go back to that teacher and ask him: Sir, how about man? Is it that your theory isn't correct or what?

Like men attract and unlike men still attract. Why?

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And I will still go back to my biology teacher and ask her: Have you ever seen two male animals (e.g is 2 male/female dogs) agreeing sexually or two female goats sexually attracted to each other?



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Don't you think, biology teacher, I would say, that in the future some human beings would begin to get married to horses and lions and tigars and rhinos and pytons and snakes and trees and bushes and roofs and walls and shoes and towels and robots and TVs and fans and envelops and carrots and candy and ice-cream and everything?




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On my way to those teachers. Probably they will tell me: the more you look the less you see. How could you not have know that man is man and has the power to be man?

 

[stovebolts]

Absolutely nothing because it dosen't address any of the pros or Cons of gay people marrying. Nothing at all, just a rant about your distaste for single parent homes and the programs there for them.

This just lingers in my head...

I do have a distaste for the single family home. Partially because I've experienced it first hand and my son experiences it second hand. Out of all of my son's friends, all of them with the exception of his friends from church come from divorced families. My son sees their struggles, and at least one of them has said how lucky my son was that he didn't have two sets of parents. If everyone had a distaste of the single parent home, perhaps less would experience one...

Marriage isn't always easy. It takes resolve and commitment. But if you ask me, it takes getting out of yourself and thinking more of others than yourself. But marriage is also about what you do, and what you don't do as well and it has been shown what a healthy marriage is founded upon, and it's not just love, because love as an emotion isn't enough to guide a relationship. People dont fall out of love, they fall out of commitment and if you look at most instances of divorce, it's because the other person wasn't doing their part to build the relationship, and we're loosing that foundation.

The sad reality is that normal in the sense of family is being defined as a blended family in the eyes of many children. Did you know that a child will experience feelings of betrayal from their biological parent if they get to close to their step parent? This is a natural response, and what it does is evokes a pschological mechanism that keeps them from fully bonding in a healthy manner and in some cases can cause severe detachment disorders... and we wonder why the divorce rate is so high when these children grow up and marry.

Now we want to define marriage as being normal for members of the opposite sex? That then would be the new "normal" in 50 years? What kind of social programs would be needed to save those folks?

 

[stovebolts]

Don't you think, biology teacher, I would say, that in the future some human beings would begin to get married to horses and lions and tigars and rhinos and pytons and snakes and trees and bushes and roofs and walls and shoes and towels and robots and TVs and fans and envelops and carrots and candy and ice-cream and everything?

We only need to look back in history to observe this in the days of Jesus. Do you know what occured in Caesarea Philippi? One word.. Pan.

Is it a wonder that Socrates wrote how there is no love deeper than that love shared between two men. And is it a wonder how pedophiles were also considered "normal". And there is Corinth. Hey, what happens in Corinth, stays in Corinth right?

 

[Pizzaguy]

The amendment also took health care away from Single parents, unmarried couples, and away from children of single parents.

So they passed a law prohibiting single parents, unmarried couples and children of same to see a doctor? Or to buy insurance?

This has to be an urban legend (not calling you a liar, just that this cannot be the truth. Can it?)

 

[Fedusenko]

My point is that while conservatives accept OT Laws regarding homosexuality, they resist other OT Laws. Why one over the other? Why accept any part of the Law if it is 'obsolete'? You may make the argument that it isn't about orientation, but about the sanctity of marriage. I find that to be a guise for the vast majority.

 

[Pizzaguy]

My point is that while conservatives accept OT Laws regarding homosexuality, they resist other OT Laws. Why one over the other? Why accept any part of the Law if it is 'obsolete'? You may make the argument that it isn't about orientation, but about the sanctity of marriage. I find that to be a guise for the vast majority.

I understand your aggravation but............

ALL sides rationalize away parts of the Bible that they don't want to face, but then stand on a soapbox and preach parts that they support because it makes them feel better about themselves.

Nothing new there!

 

[stovebolts]

My point is that while conservatives accept OT Laws regarding homosexuality, they resist other OT Laws. Why one over the other? Why accept any part of the Law if it is 'obsolete'? You may make the argument that it isn't about orientation, but about the sanctity of marriage. I find that to be a guise for the vast majority.

Hmm.... interesting. When you say orientation, could you explain a bit further on that?

Matthew 19:4-6 And he answered and said, Have ye not read, that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh? So that they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Perhaps we have a different view on the law? While homosexuality does occur in nature, divorce occurs within our society. But from the beginning, that was not God's purpose for humanity according to the view of Jesus. We either accept or reject God's plan and purpose for us.

Funny, Jason and I were just talking the other day and we both noticed that the more ridged an ideology, the less discernment that was required.

 

[stovebolts]

Why is homosexual practice such a horrid sin, yet other commands regarding the law are "obsolete". Can someone explain the inconsistancy?

I do owe you an apology... I got caught up in meatball sub's reply and had forgotten your original OP. Sorry.

I want to make sure our nomenclature is on par. When you say law, which law are you talking about? There are god's natural laws that have been in place since creation that everyone is under and then there are the laws of the covenant at Mt. Sinai.

I would point out that the only ones under the Sinai covenant, were those who agreed to live under them. Regardless, if you call yourself a Christian, then you have accepted a new Covenant in Christ. Those who are not in covenant with Christ are also not held under those regulations.

However, like I stated earlier, everyone is bound by a set of universal laws, and I believe homosexuality, while spoken about in the Sinai covenant is not exclusive to the Sinai covenant.

Matthew 19:4-6 And he answered and said, Have ye not read, that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh? So that they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.